After refusing to release even unclassified materials as Vice President, former Vice President Dick Cheney is now calling for the release of all interrogation reports to show that torture works. This is the same Cheney who supported the denial of such evidence to courts and criminal defendants and Congress. However, now that calls for prosecution for war crimes are increasing, Cheney suddenly believes in transparency in government. In the meantime, Obama has reversed earlier statements and indicated that he will not rule out prosecutions of Bush officials. We discussed this latest development on this segment of MSNBC Countdown.
“One of the things that I find a little bit disturbing about this recent disclosure is they put out the legal memos, the memos that the CIA got from the Office of Legal Counsel, but they didn’t put out the memos that showed the success of the effort. And there are reports that show specifically what we gained as a result of this activity. They have not been declassified. . . .I formally asked that they be declassified now. I haven’t announced this up until now, I haven’t talked about it, but I know specifically of reports that I read, that I saw that lay out what we learned through the interrogation process and what the consequences were for the country. . . .And I’ve now formally asked the CIA to take steps to declassify those memos so we can lay them out there and the American people have a chance to see what we obtained and what we learned and how good the intelligence was, as well as to see this debate over the legal opinions.”
This is part of the new strategy where torture is defended because it works. This is the same argument that I faced yesterday in a debate on NPR with Professor Robert Turner, click here. The media is being sucked into this false debate, debating how successful the torture program was in extracting information. Under domestic and international law, we are not allowed to torture people regardless of how successful it might be. In the same fashion, we are not allowed to beat and torture criminal defendants like Dirty Harry with post hoc rationalizations. International treaties and cases expressly reject such claims.
In his latest round of interviews, <a href=”click here.”>Cheney added “I don’t think we’ve got much to apologize for.” As we have previously discussed on the air, Cheney is the walking example of the dangers of Obama’s policy of blocking any investigation, click here. Not only is Cheney walking around casually discussing war crimes, he is wholly unrepentant. He and others are now trying to corrupt this country’s values even further by defining the issue of war crimes as to whether they resulted in actionable intelligence.
For the Fox News interview, click here.
rcampbell,
Don’t forget the anthrax terrorist attacks. This means Bill Clinton’s record is better!
A Patriot Acting,
Very well said.
Have we had a discussion about whether or not murder, bank robbery, rape, black mail, or a whole host of other illegal activities “work”?
Work for whom?
If something is illegal there is no valid discussion of this type.
The on point discussion on this matter needs to be about “has the office of the AG been once again subverted”:
http://blogdredd.blogspot.com/2009/04/independent-attorney-general-why.html
Cheney, among other Bush-era thugs, keep patting themselves on the back that the US wasn’t attacked by terrorists for the remaining seven years of Bush’s evil regime. The first attack on the WTC was in March 1993. The planes went into the towers in September, 2001. Isn’t it fair to say Bill Clinton kept us safe from attack by terrorist for eight years without compromising our nation’s values, principles, treaties and WITHOUT TORTURE!!!!
With my glasses I sometimes see, the Tag/Headline like this:
Cheney T. . . rolls:
Probably need better lenses.
Listened to your On Point appearance yesterday during my morning commute and this is really nagging me…
A couple of callers touched on the following argument but no one is holding it up. Yes, our troops – citizens, even – are less safe now, but not for the reasons stated by the memos’ defenders. The question is: Why do these defenders believe that it’s okay to perform special interrogation tactics on US miltary personnel – civilians even? They need to be consistently thrown back with the argument that if the US uses “special techniques” to torture, every one else can. As Mr. Shapiro stated, Pakistan is already doing so, in defense of the Taliban.
SHOUT IT LOUD!!!
Matthew N:
“But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.”
That is why we have the second Amendment! The old boys understood the human soul and therefore provided for the ability of a free citizenry to remain free. I hope you did not think it was for hunting stag on the kings land.
Our government is quickly descending into an opponent of freedom and as it does it will become more radical in its suppression of individual liberty. We are already seeing it with the report from homeland security about people with Ron Paul bumper stickers or second amendment bumper stickers considered potential enemies of the state. I am awaiting the burning of the “Reichstag” by the communists. Can Krystal Nacht be far behind?
The fist thing that has got to go in a new government order is the frigging yellow pages solicitations, they are driving me insane. Any lawyers in need of a potential class action suit?
Criminal Procedure 101: Bad Stop Arrest Detainment beat the shit out of the guy/woman/alien/ illegal alien/ and get information. Ok, I am with you.
Keep beating the shit out of them and its called torture. Ah yes, but, now that we know where to go and look and we found it. I can proclaim to Jesus and My G-d, That I would have found it anyway. Inevitable Discovery. Ah yes. it does work.
The Sct said in the Noriga case after he had been prostituted by our Govt. THE 4th Amendment has no protection outside the US.
This reminds be of the Seat Belt issues. It was sold as a secondary offense after you were stopped for a litigate reason and now its a primary offense.
Corally 4th Amend not applicable out side, 4th Amend not applicable inside the US. Makes total sense to me.
Could I have some cake too or if you have any Guyana Punch left over after the party? send some, ya here….
Now Fucking Texas is at this point is like attending a necrophilia party. Perry had it handed to him last week. I am not sure if they had separated the men from the boys.
So how do you separate a new representative from a seasoned representative?
With a crowbar. bada bing
AY,
In the spirit of truthful disclosure, it would appear I am going to have cake. Someone brought an angel food cake and left it in the break room. So, cake now, anarchy afterwards.
Sorry, that last sentence s/b: More likely we missed out on obtaining actionable intel in our haste to satisfy the sadistic whims of a Vice President and his warped world view.
Excellent point Mr. Turley. One that needs to be repeated loudly and often. Torture is illegal and it does not matter what intel you gleened from it. Several former CIA officers have come forward and stated that the detainees responded quite well to non-violent interrogation methods. That tap ran dry once the torture started. The information that was gained through torture almost never panned out and was seriously unreliable. Not to mention it’s not being admissible in court because it was gained through torture. I would be willing to bet that if there is any evidence to back up Mr. Cheney’s claim, the very same intel could have been gained through non-coersive techniques. More likely we the wasted time and effort spent on toruring to satisfy a sadistic Vice President and his warped world-view.
lol
No, AY, I’ve about had enough cake. Although it really is amazing how those supposedly educated people in Washington learned nothing from Marie.
Buddha,
Would you care for cake with that?
Matthew,
Jefferson said it best –
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.
___
When the government consistently acts in contravention of the will of the people and, more importantly, the Constitution, it is our duty to tear down the government and hold the bad actors responsible accountable – no matter their party affiliation. I would prefer a more orderly revolution starting at the state government level but the simple fact is that mass media and systematic dumbing down of the populace makes this kind of concerted effort difficult if not impossible. That in no way changes that unequal application of laws has always led to violence. Ergo, anarchy.
I’d also like to remind Holder that he works for CITIZENS to PROTECT THE CONSTITUTION.
Not for Obama.
Not for Halliburton.
Not for the Saudis.
Not for AIPAC.
Not for lobbyists.
Not for the CIA.
U.S. Citizens – your one and only boss, sport.
Now do your job and investigate and prosecute the war criminals of the Bush administration like a real man would or you can keep acting like “their boy”. Your choice. And like all choices, it has consequences. On one hand, by doing your job, you’d be a hero. On the other, by capitulating to the torturers, you get to be a villain as well as a sellout POS puppet. Think about that duty you swore at bar to defend the Constitution REAL CAREFUL, Eric. Think about the example you could be setting for your children. Do the right thing and give Obama the finger – file charges. If not, enjoy knowing when the shit hits the fan that your lack of spine was a contributory. An American Hero or The Torturer’s Uncle Tom? What’s it gonna be?
Buddha,
I think honestly, anarchy is already here. The ruling class and their minions have no law. Once the rule of law is broken by them I do think the rest of the legal system will deteriorate. We are already laying off police and prosecutors while pumping money into the police state functions of the govt. It doesn’t bode well for the US.
So Buddha, in order to protest those who ignored the rule of law and used violence against detainees, people are going to rise up, ignore the rule of law, and use violence against politicians?
This will lead to violence. Against politicians. Mark my words. This is how the anarchy starts.
Today NPR reported that Obama will keep open his ability to approve interrogation techniques outside the law (for national security of course). I see these two events as deeply connected. Cheney will “prove” how useful torture is and Obama will use the “evidence” to justify his own authorization of torture. They make a great team.
Funny how principle always yields to the self-preservation of these neo-cons. Bring on the war crimes tribunals. I want this man in the dock where he cannot hide, obfuscate, or regally avoid the question. Noblesse oblige, indeed.
I think that this man, if you can call it that, should have his mental faculties checked. First it does not exist, the papers and now I have seen papers. No wonder he did not want to meet and be sworn so that, if the need arose he would not have committed contempt.
I am flabbergasted to say the least. I guess this shows you who was really running the show. Like we did not know. Did we not complain of other countries abusive behavior under their respective puppet governments? Would Bush be any exception?