After refusing to release even unclassified materials as Vice President, former Vice President Dick Cheney is now calling for the release of all interrogation reports to show that torture works. This is the same Cheney who supported the denial of such evidence to courts and criminal defendants and Congress. However, now that calls for prosecution for war crimes are increasing, Cheney suddenly believes in transparency in government. In the meantime, Obama has reversed earlier statements and indicated that he will not rule out prosecutions of Bush officials. We discussed this latest development on this segment of MSNBC Countdown.
“One of the things that I find a little bit disturbing about this recent disclosure is they put out the legal memos, the memos that the CIA got from the Office of Legal Counsel, but they didn’t put out the memos that showed the success of the effort. And there are reports that show specifically what we gained as a result of this activity. They have not been declassified. . . .I formally asked that they be declassified now. I haven’t announced this up until now, I haven’t talked about it, but I know specifically of reports that I read, that I saw that lay out what we learned through the interrogation process and what the consequences were for the country. . . .And I’ve now formally asked the CIA to take steps to declassify those memos so we can lay them out there and the American people have a chance to see what we obtained and what we learned and how good the intelligence was, as well as to see this debate over the legal opinions.”
This is part of the new strategy where torture is defended because it works. This is the same argument that I faced yesterday in a debate on NPR with Professor Robert Turner, click here. The media is being sucked into this false debate, debating how successful the torture program was in extracting information. Under domestic and international law, we are not allowed to torture people regardless of how successful it might be. In the same fashion, we are not allowed to beat and torture criminal defendants like Dirty Harry with post hoc rationalizations. International treaties and cases expressly reject such claims.
In his latest round of interviews, <a href=”click here.”>Cheney added “I don’t think we’ve got much to apologize for.” As we have previously discussed on the air, Cheney is the walking example of the dangers of Obama’s policy of blocking any investigation, click here. Not only is Cheney walking around casually discussing war crimes, he is wholly unrepentant. He and others are now trying to corrupt this country’s values even further by defining the issue of war crimes as to whether they resulted in actionable intelligence.
For the Fox News interview, click here.
lol
Now now AY, some of my best friends and indeed family are of the non-meth redneck variety. I do have one cousin who turned his brain into Swiss cheese, but he wasn’t right before the meth. No offense was meant to immediate company, just to the redneck mindset that would endorse torture. You do realize I’m not just green, but often hyperbolic I would hope. That also goes for my in unceasing and well deserved Texas bashing (excluding TX politicians, they deserve every bit of venom). FFLEO, a traditional conservative senior (as in long time) contributor of good standing is also a fine fellow Texan and I have several friends in Austin. None of this means I’ll ever return to Texas. EVER. No salary high enough, no woman enthralling enough. Been there, done that, had enough, thanks.
And I’m not green from poppies. Opiates are nasty but you have nailed the source of Kansas’ Flying Monkey infestation. I’ve never used them in a recreational sense, but after spending 4 weeks on a morphine drip in hospital I honestly cannot fathom opium/morphine addiction. Just vile stuff. I don’t see how Poe did it and functioned as *well* as he did. But for the record, when I talk to the Ghost of Marley, I don’t mean Jacob. That may explain my hue.
Yeah… I have no doubt in my mind that lawmakers won’t be able to resist. A guy can wish once in awhile can’t he? 😉
Matthew N:
the problem with this prosecution is that it will be distilled into political theatre. the left will not be able to contain itself and will over play their hand. most Americans will understand and it will all be for naught. what is left of the constitution will be further shreaded and we will be that much closer to a true dictatorship.
Pelsoi et al. will be unable to control themselves, they are a feeble minded bunch and drunk with power.
BuddhaisLaughing:
“Give the rednecks more beer, meth and Larry the Cable Guy. They’ll get over it.”
An excellent suggestion, as Marie Antoinnette said “let them eat cake”. It is amazing how historical scenarios repeat themselves.
Now I take offense. I am a red neck, wear boots and don’t do meth. Good ole whiskey will rot your teeth the same. I don’t care for Larry the cable guy, but Larry Flint is a whole other chapter.
But I too am pissed about the torture. Like no Other. But then again, inevitable discovery has worked for the crooked cops for so long that the defense bar is down.
Though, Fat Green Guy, aka Buddha where in the Land of Oz even Dorthy couldn’t find her way home. So do you all really grow those Poppy? I do think its funny.
If the investigation and prosecution of these alleged torturers is done in the right way and for the right reasons (where liberal politicians keep their mouth shut), shunning any attempts to turn the prosecutions into a media event or partisan politicking, I think this can be received well by the public at large. The people living in an echo chamber are always going to think what the political opponents of an investigation tell them. The goal of the administration, if these investigations proceed, is to remain cognizant at all times of the public’s perception of these proceedings. The only investigations I can remember that were controversial revolved around the September 11th attacks and the Clinton-Lewinsky ordeal. Clinton-Lewinsky was blatantly partisan and prosecutors and defense attorneys went out of their way to get into the media spotlight in any way possible. The September 11th commission seemed to be a lot more objective, although I admit that I did not follow it that close.
The opponents of prosecution are going to have a media blitz trying to prove to the average person that this is partisan politics to the extreme. It is the responsibility of those who support these investigations to remain “above the fray” and refrain from using the results or revelations for political gain, no matter how tempting it may be.
There’s a huge difference between breaking into the Watergate and trying to cover it up, being a gun runner for zealots and drug dealers and ordering torture as an official state sanctioned policy in contravention of the Constitution and international law.
There are some lines you don’t cross without consequence and some pissed of rednecks vs. seeing those who ordered torture? It’s no contest. Give the rednecks more beer, meth and Larry the Cable Guy. They’ll get over it.
I have been reading the threads of these blogs for awhile and I am seeing a growing awareness of this torture issue.
I can only say I hope you all know what you are requesting. I think you may be surprised at how prosecution of Bush/Chenny et. al. will play in Peoria. This is not going to unify the country and Obama is going to use it to consolidate his power. The left has been down this road before with watergate and iran contra both of which worked well for them. It gave us Reagan and made Ollie North a national hero.
Something like this has the ability to really get the back of the right up and from what I can tell they have all the guns and rednecks.
But good luck and good hunting, I hope this isnt a case of the dog chasing the fire engine and catching it.
mespo727272,
Nothing like Over Kill. That was funny got a smirk out of me.
This “but it works” argument is like arguing for another Katrina because it irrigated the crops so well. Ah, Mr. Cheney you missed the point.
Collective high heat:
http://pol.moveon.org/torture/
Buddha,
I was just at the UFO convention and there was no discussion of the fringe phenomena known as our laws. Chuck, what drugs did you score and where did you score them? Let us all in on the secret so we too may see your visions!!! That was a great link. LOL!
You know CCD, when need that woman in your neck-of-the-woods to take her toy guitar she used on her hubby, go to Warshinton, and clean house.
Seriously, for me personally, I have never seen such a mess and I am concerned for our Republic. It is not down-for-the-count but we are bruised, sitting blind on a 3-legged stool in the corner with 2 of those legs ready for collapse, and the referee is ringing the bell for the final round…
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/04/21/chuck-todd-depicts-suppor_n_189647.html
Further enforcing my already low opinion of Chuck Todd.
FF LEO,
You said a mouthful. The Senate and House intelligence committees from 2003
on are all suspect.
Zing, blind squirrel.
All’s well!
Let’s watch the ‘Savanna Consciousness’ play out now (fight or flight).
BushCo will be singing:
Don’t want to discuss it
I think its time for a change
You may get disgusted
And think Im strange
In that case Ill go underground
Get some heavy rest
Never have to worry
About what is worst and what is best
Hit it AG Holder
eniobob,
I’ll have to say it was a spontaneous creation as I am not familiar with Reed’s use of the term. It does work well though.
‘Dis ol country boy’s head’s a spinnin’ with all of the corruption. How is theys a’gonna be nary a soul makin’ laws or prosecutin’ ‘n vestigatin’ thar Congressmates ‘ifin theys all criminals includin’ them Justice boys ‘n a coward prezident?
Hey Buddah:
That “lobbyist humping”straight from the mouth of boy wonder,Ralph Reed.LOL!!
CCD,
BTW, where you been hiding out? I hope all is well in the Windy City.