After refusing to release even unclassified materials as Vice President, former Vice President Dick Cheney is now calling for the release of all interrogation reports to show that torture works. This is the same Cheney who supported the denial of such evidence to courts and criminal defendants and Congress. However, now that calls for prosecution for war crimes are increasing, Cheney suddenly believes in transparency in government. In the meantime, Obama has reversed earlier statements and indicated that he will not rule out prosecutions of Bush officials. We discussed this latest development on this segment of MSNBC Countdown.
“One of the things that I find a little bit disturbing about this recent disclosure is they put out the legal memos, the memos that the CIA got from the Office of Legal Counsel, but they didn’t put out the memos that showed the success of the effort. And there are reports that show specifically what we gained as a result of this activity. They have not been declassified. . . .I formally asked that they be declassified now. I haven’t announced this up until now, I haven’t talked about it, but I know specifically of reports that I read, that I saw that lay out what we learned through the interrogation process and what the consequences were for the country. . . .And I’ve now formally asked the CIA to take steps to declassify those memos so we can lay them out there and the American people have a chance to see what we obtained and what we learned and how good the intelligence was, as well as to see this debate over the legal opinions.”
This is part of the new strategy where torture is defended because it works. This is the same argument that I faced yesterday in a debate on NPR with Professor Robert Turner, click here. The media is being sucked into this false debate, debating how successful the torture program was in extracting information. Under domestic and international law, we are not allowed to torture people regardless of how successful it might be. In the same fashion, we are not allowed to beat and torture criminal defendants like Dirty Harry with post hoc rationalizations. International treaties and cases expressly reject such claims.
In his latest round of interviews, <a href=”click here.”>Cheney added “I don’t think we’ve got much to apologize for.” As we have previously discussed on the air, Cheney is the walking example of the dangers of Obama’s policy of blocking any investigation, click here. Not only is Cheney walking around casually discussing war crimes, he is wholly unrepentant. He and others are now trying to corrupt this country’s values even further by defining the issue of war crimes as to whether they resulted in actionable intelligence.
For the Fox News interview, click here.
Scott,
Mr. Turley has no power to prosecute people. He is calling the behavior what it is-war crimes. Waterboarding has been admitted, proudly by Mr. Cheney. It is a rather large topic in the recently released memos. You can’t be unaware that waterboarding is considered a war crime, even in the United States.
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Thank you for your sane and polite response, albeit differing from mine. JT said their is “insurmountable evidence” that war crimes were committed. In other words anyone engaged in these matters is already guilty of a “war crime” and they cannot even defend themselves because the evidence is insurmountable. This is simply guilty before innocent. Secondly, I don’t know why the Congressional Committees, who were briefed that these tacts were being used numerous times, both Democrats and Republicans, including Nancy Pelosi, didn’t say anything if it is so widely a clear matter of law that these actions are “war crimes.” Are your ready for a Nancy Pelosi prosecution?
I have been biting my lip here for awhile, but I can’t take it any longer. I agree CCD, that Mr. Rumph is one of the most interesting trolls that I have ever witnessed. Jill said it right when she said that Cheney admitted to the waterboarding in public, as did Bush. Waterboarding is defined in US law as torture and in international law as torture, so maybe Cheney is merely setting up a plea bargain. I am so gratified that Obama has finally come out with a positive statement that torture investigations and prosecutions are possible. We have to keep the up the heat to make sure Holder honors his oath.
Ya mean the Nazi’s coducted Torture? Do Tell me more.I wonder if the Japaneese conducted any type of torture.
I hear they have wonderful finger nail extensions or nail splints made out of bamboo. Oh shoot what do you call them again?
Scott Rumph,
Please…What’s your fear of investigation?
Oh, and by the way, non enemy combatants, outside the U.S.don’t have all the Consitutional protections that U.S. citizens in the United States have. When we captured those Nazi’s you speak of on the battlefield we didn’t appoint them an attorney and bring them each to lower Manhattan for a polite trial. They were put in POW camps and subjected to military tribunals.
This point may escape you because it encompasses both history and law, but I thought I would throw it out there for you to chew on for the next month. Read a little bit, there is plenty of stuff out there.
Well I tried to read any substance to your reply, but I had to get around the name calling, and chicken suit references. Apparently, you missed the subtle point. Whether something is or is not a War Crime, is a determination of law. My point was that Mr. Turley has already concluded in the title of his article that war crimes were committed, as have you. It is actually ironic in the same post you reference “due process” and then dispense with it because you hate Dick Cheney. You mean due process for people you like? You are so concerned with the “integrity” of U.S. in matters such as due process then you go on an attempt to lynch certain people based upon little knowledge of facts. Your own post is so filled with internal inconsistencies that it is rather hard to reply to it. Due process for all terrorists but not for people that you hate because they are of different politics than you. That is certainly healthy for the “integrity” of the U.S. At least, in the future have some intellectual consistency and be able to recognize points that are probably beyond your comprehension.
Hello everyone:
In breaking with tradition and being so publicly critical of Obama, Cheney is once again putting forward strong evidence that the only security he is concerned about is that of himself. In making the name of Valerie Plame public, he ignored any national security issues and now in calling for a complete release of all documents he is once again putting himself ahead of the nation. Of course, as has been mentioned, he considered all information off limits when he was in office. All of this information will eventually become public, I hope to live long enough to cuss Cheney once again for the damage he did to this country.
But torture is okay. Just ask the Nazis.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/shayana-kadidal/the-torture-memos-berlin_b_189302.html
Any of that sound familiar?
CCD, thanks for the moveon pol.
Moveon is controlled from the top down, firmly under the control of Rahm Emmanuel. It is why there hasn’t been much of an outcry against Obamas was escalation plans for afganistan, and single payer health care has been effectively quashed.
My guess is that this is staged to drum up pressure for prosecution, and allow Obama not to be ruined politically for supporting it directly.
Scott Rumph
“Your comments on MSNBC were irresponsible as are some of your comments on this blog about the “torture” issue. What is sad, is that it can’t be blamed on ignorance, you are obviously an intelligent person.”
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Do you wear that chicken suit at the various rallies? Or have you not graduated to that level yet? I believe that your comments may be based on your total ignorance of matters which are vital to the integrity of the USA.
It appears your knowledge of the law and the way it really works is, you make your decision based upon the fact or justify why this (your) case is different. I am sure since you can’t wear the chicken suit yet you are still in training. I suppose this is your agenda.
Hitler was not around to explain or answer for his war crimes. Most of his Generals were. Cheney is, still around if you have not figured out. Some people profit from war. The first case of bankruptcy was when a country financed a conquest for territory and valuable. It did not result in as large of a profit as expected and the country went bankrupt. By the way it was privately financed. I wonder how much KBR aka Haliburton made off of this skirmish as you would like to classify it. The memos were released and this is just the tip of the iceberg.
Perhaps sir, if I may take liberty. You are like most children and untrained adults. Quick to blame and then, rationalize when they are wrong.
The memos state that water boarding did in fact happen and Cheney wanted it to occur. It has been the policy of most governments to jail rather than Han someone. Now that you bring that up, maybe a public lynching could be quicker, cheaper and help to restore integrity in the USA. Ah, but we believe in Due Process. Something Bush and Cheney abdicated in favor of torture.
I conclude this with, Do you actually want us to believe that you could be so delusional with your inaneness? I have never met Mr. Turley nor have I listened to him on the radio or TV. But I am glad that we have this forum to express of various points of view. Albeit, patently different. Some call a Mule a Jackass. But sir, I beg to differ with you. A mule makes more sense which you have proved is illusive to you.
The investigation JT is calling for is aimed at suspected war criminals.
He has also stated the targets of same maybe guilty, maybe not.
An investigation may very well lead to future prosecutions for war crimes.
Ideally, I’d like to see things move forward. Always cautious, I am equally interested in avoiding ‘cutting of our nose to spite our face’, as it were…
Scott,
Mr. Turley has no power to prosecute people. He is calling the behavior what it is-war crimes. Waterboarding has been admitted, proudly by Mr. Cheney. It is a rather large topic in the recently released memos. You can’t be unaware that waterboarding is considered a war crime, even in the United States.
Mr. Turley is recommending that an impartial, apolitical, career prosecutor investigate the evidence and take it where it may go. I ask also with CCD, why not investigate?
Visualize the readers and fans of cheney’s book. Will they be leather or vinyl clad, cuckolded, sporting welts and red rubber balls in their mouths?
Scott Rumph,
What’s your fear of investigation?
Your comments on MSNBC were irresponsible as are some of your comments on this blog about the “torture” issue. What is sad, is that it can’t be blamed on ignorance, you are obviously an intelligent person. Therefore, it must be ascribed to an agenda. To title an article that Cheney attempts to explain away WAR CRIMES, is, as you already know a title which contains a legal conclusion. You have already concluded that War Crimes were committed. Obviously, and again you are too smart to do this without an agneda, you fashion yourself the judge and jury based upon a few CIA memos released. Boy you are quick. Perhaps if you keep saying “War crimes..war crimes..war crimes…” in a few more posts we can dispense with an investigation and just pick a few people to send to jail. As you said on TV “its obvious that war crimes were committed here.” Are you an actual law professor, or do you just play one on TV?
One would hope by reason, logic and ethics. They are not incompatible. See Dennis Kucinich for an example of a reason driven politician. He’s a rare bird, I’ll admit, but it shows that it’s possible to elect people who aren’t “me me me” 24/7.
Buddha Is Laughing:
politics has to be ego driven how else could they survive?
Agreed. This is too important for theater. This is the most important threat to the Constitution since . . . since . . . I can only come up with “ever”. But guarantee politicians won’t act like clowns? The best we can do is use the new media to make sure we ridicule them when the stray and hope for the best. Being theatrical clowns in just the nature of the beast for politicians. They are such pitiful ego driven creatures.
Buddha Is Laughing:
if you can guarantee no political theatre or left wing payback, I am on board. This is too serious an issue to make sport with.
Bystander,
You fail to appreciate the seriousness of the crimes involved with Bush Co. Torture trumps all that other crap you mentioned. By leaps and bounds. And let’s be clear, the hardcore GOP kool-aid swilling part of the populace you refer to is about 15% last time I checked. They want to act out b/c their boys get sent to prison, let them try.