Jordan’s King Abdullah II joined the ever-lengthening list of people saying that the United States tortured detainees in an interview to air on NBC Meet the Press. He joins a long list of Bush officials, the International Red Cross, countless NGOs and experts who have come forward in the last few weeks. I discussed this evidence last night on this segment of Hardball.
What is fascinating that that for the last six years I have been facing a long list of conservatives who have argued that waterboarding is not torture and these interrogations were perfectly legal. Now, shows tell me that none of these past professors and commentators are willing to go on and most are now saying that it was torture (but simply should not be prosecuted as Pat Buchanan says in last night’s interview).
In the NBC interview, King Abdullah states the obvious when asked about if the United States tortured detainees. He states that accounts indicate that “that is the case” and calls the CIA’s controversial interrogation techniques “illegal ways of dealing with detainees.”
With the growing consensus on torture and the expected release of additional pictures, the pressure is growing for an special prosecutor.
For the story, click here.
Mojo.
I hope I am right too. The most unfortunate part of all of this is the delay in justice that is unnecessary.
rafflaw –
I guess my concern is also based on the notion that many in the mainstream media (the old MSM) are already priming us for a forfeit. There seems to be this lop-sided debate going on in the MSM and the corporate-minded side of the debate is suggesting that it’s unreasonable to expect investigations. Even the WH press secretary Gibbs is using the same tired, old line that they want to ‘move forward’ and ‘turn the page’ and not ‘dwell on the past’.
I can only imagine how many criminals awaiting trial in this country would love to have someone of influence intervene before the police even fully investigate their alleged crimes and simply say, “Let’s just move forward. No need to dwell on the past. What’s done is done.”
The rapists, the murderers, even the shoplifters sitting in the court room would all look at each other, shrug their shoulders, and mutually agree.
“Yeah. What he said. No need to dwell on the past. Let’s turn the page.”
It’s an absurd argument being floated by the WH and those in the MSN who seem to be running interference. It is not rational to say that some people are above the law simply because to enforce the law in their case would ‘jeopardize the country’. The opposite is true and to not enforce the law would actually jeopardize the country.
What Pat Buchanan is doing, in saying that this country would be torn apart, is he is holding a gun to the head of the country and saying if you try to prosecute these people this gun might go off.
Certainly I know I’m preaching to the choir, here, and that you are of sound mind on these issues. But I hope you’re right, raff. I hope those investigations do come, for the sake of the future of this country.
ret·ri·bu·tion \ˌre-trə-ˈbyü-shən\
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English retribucioun, from Anglo-French, from Late Latin retribution-, retributio, from Latin retribuere to pay back, from re- + tribuere to pay — more at tribute
Date:
14th century
1: recompense, reward2: the dispensing or receiving of reward or punishment especially in the hereafter3: something given or exacted in recompense ; especially : punishment
So what exactly the point. They will be rewarded for there acts and punished for there deeds. Is not that what the Republicans are for. Strict Accountability unless it pertains to them. I got it. It pertains to me because I think and have the tendency to not go along with what everyone else is doing. I think I have it now.
Mojo,
I agree with you about your outrage if nothing is done. I do believe that we will get investigations, but it will be a slow process. I hope I am wrong, but the Republicans will be perfecting their Filibuster and using it often. They will be screaming like Uncle Pat stating that any investigations are retribution and they will be right. It will retribution for war crimes being committed. The Republicans who always brag about their law and order ethics will be calling the Dems every name in the book to try to defer and prevent investigations. I will enjoy watching them squirm.
Professor –
I saw that Hardball segment and thought that Pat Buchanan has gone off the deep end yet again. I know this is what he lives for, to protect those on the right, but he was foaming at the mouth when you suggested such lunatic ideas as “enforcing the law”.
“This country will be torn apart,” he blathered over and over.
Heaven forbid we should see such as a thing as people being held accountable. According to Pat we would all lose our minds and take to the streets if something such as justice were to flourish in this land.
My concern, really, is that nothing is done about these clear war crimes that have been committed. That would surely be the outrage that Pat Buchanan is warning about.
That nothing is done would be the true outrage.
FFN,
You’re right about that!
He should know… his country is one of those participating in our renditions.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/06/09/AR2006060901356.html
How about some self-critique to go with that finger pointing? (Not to say that the US should be kept off the hook, clearly not.)
Jill,
No that is not at all what I am saying, but it could be inferred that way.
I am saying that since Bush left this economy in such a disaster most people are concerned with there own self preservation, not anyone else’s. It is not like a lot of people have insular government jobs anymore, eve they are getting laid off.
Once we as consumers feel more at peace with the economy we will want our pound of flesh. What good would it do to have these people tried. If we cannot afford our homes, electricty, newspapers, computers. Nothing. It would not matter, because even though we would care it would not matter much, if we were scrounging for our next meal.
It is all about the perspectives be prioritized. We with AIG had a major influence with the collapse of the World Economy. From my own perspective. My childrens 529 went down by more than 95 per cent. Who would have ever expected bank stock to decline so rapidly, when they were still paying dividends?
I honestly believe that Obama is systematically having the information leaked to keep people aware and that he is acknowledging that something should be done. But the time is just not right in my book at least.
I may be wrong, I have been wrong before and I will probably be wrong again. Hopefully, not today.
FYI, I was an Edwards supporter, McCain until he got Palin and the Nader was who I ended up voting for. I support Obama without a doubt. I did not vote for him as I see a very Narcissistic man. But you have to have a little of that to be in public office.
I meant to say, Obama has not just kept war criminals in place…
Anon Yours,
You make the argument that we should wait for the economy to shape up before we will have the money to spend on prosecutions. There are several problems with this line of thought and I refere you to Paul Krugman’s column where he takes on this line of thinking piece by piece and dismantles it.
I will add one more thing to Paul Krugman’s anaylsis. Obama has not just kept war crimes in place, running things in the intelligence agencies, he has kept as his closest advisors, people who, by law, should be investigated for financial crimes. I refer you to a clear explanation of this situation given by William Black on Bill Moyers about 2 weeks ago. There is no more of an option to prosecute these people for financial crimes than there his an option to prosecute war crimes. Both are the settled law of this nation.
Obama has a clear pattern of keeping on advisors and cabinet memebers at the highest level who have 1. been responsible for past failures in the financial industry and past failures in our military/intelligence. To choose people who are actually responsible for the past failures, who broke the law, as your closest advisors in trying to “fix” either the economy or the military/intelligence makes no sense. If you examine the financial anaylisis of Obama’s plan to “rescue” the economy you will see his plan has been imbroiled in many illegal activities to benefit his wealthy donors. So if we must wait to follow the law on war crimes by ignoring them and ignoring the very serious financial crimes committed in the present as well as the past by the very same people who now work under new management then how will any of it, financial or otherwise suddenly get better? That is going to be a long wait. In the meantime financial crimes are being committed against the American public and war criminals are allowed to work in the highest levels of our govt. Does this makes sense? This is an administration engaged in protecting past wrongdoers and it is engaging in present wrongdoing. It isn’t change and it won’t be change until the American people say we have had enough. This is not the United States that we want to live under. We want a just, good govt.
You can just about predict how this is going to be,spun,flipped and dipped by Monday morning if not sooner by the forces on the “Rght”
While I agree that a SP should be assigned. We are talking of the past administrations decesions. I may not like how slow it is going, but as long as the economy is in the dumper, whats the rush.
A person can be morally and spiritually bankrupt, but as we have seen in prior administration they had the funds to spend. Ok, Bush not as much. But Bush had an unlimited checkbook, not bad for a man that bankrupted two companies before Tom Hicks gave him a minority interest in the Rangers. Now Hicks has his own financial problems.
Until the “Economy” shapes up we can wait. Its is not like Obama took the country when it was in good shape. I will state that I voted for Nader, the first time to cross out of the Dem party since Reagen 1.
A lot is at stake on many and various fronts.