Former Klan leader David Duke has been detained by police in Prague on suspicion of denying the Holocaust. Despite the universal loathing of Duke and other Holocaust deniers, the arrest hits a difficult issue for civil libertarians. Criminalizing a viewpoint is a fundamental denial of free speech and allows prosecution for unpopular thoughts or views.
Countries like Germany have long criminalized Holocaust denial as well as the use of Nazi symbols. The problem is that such laws do not defeat unworthy ideas or theories. They merely force them below ground and give these people a status as victims. It also breeds conspiracy theories that they feed on in their recruitment campaigns.
An analogy can be drawn to the prosecution of religious criticism and criticism of homosexuality, here.
In the Czech Republic, you can go to prison for three years for uttering such theories. There is a reluctance to be seen defending Duke, who has led a thoroughly indefensible life. However, the West cannot claim to defend free speech while exempting certain unpopular or intolerable theories. It would be better in my view to allow good ideas to defeat bad ideas in the free market of speech.
For the story, click here.
The person who wrote this essay is wrong in one respect: You cannot go to jail for uttering or being a racist or Holocaust denier in Europe. You must try to present it publically and start movements. If you and your friends want to sit around and talk racism, that’s fine. You can also write factual, esoteric, research papers and books on the subject, as long as they are valid and sound. David Duke is about as unsound as you get.
“Disturbung the public peace” is defined as a “social situation in which there is a hightend possibility that individuals are targeted with criminal offences; or in which a significant part of the population has a reasonable fear that this may be the case”.
That goes way beyond a lively debate about “divergent views”. It covers things like rioting, lynch mobs, and vilolent groups.”
It seems a rather broad definition to me that could be used to suppress most unpopular views.
Berliner, from the definition you gave it sounds like the statute relates to a species of incitement to riot. That is also an offense under American law. However, there is a difference between language intended to offend, or even inflame, and language intended to result in physical harm to another. How is that distinction drawn under German law?
Beg your pardon? How exactly is dog fighting supposed to fall under “approving, denying or rendering harmless a nazi genocide in a way that installs fear of violence in a part of the population”?
Is that an Objective or Subjective standard? It seems to me that this could include Dog Fighting or any variation thereof.
“Disturbung the public peace” is defined as a “social situation in which there is a hightend possibility that individuals are targeted with criminal offences; or in which a significant part of the population has a reasonable fear that this may be the case”.
That goes way beyond a lively debate about “divergent views”. It covers things like rioting, lynch mobs, and vilolent groups.
Berliner, my comments are not meant as a general attack on German law. I am quite aware of the thoroughness of German scholarship on any subject. However, German law does recognize that a primary function of the right of free speech is persuasion. That is, the expression of a viewpoint is frequently intended to convince others of its correctness. Therefore, free speech encourages divergent views. In that respect, it often disturbs the public peace by exhorting people to look at an issue in a way that is novel or even offensive. I had hoped that my comment would elicit an example of the application of the statutory authority you have cited.
Mike Appleton, German law has several centuries of precedence cases, and thousands of scholarly explanations and textbooks explaining what exactly “capable of disturbing the public peace” means.
This law doesn’t exist in a vacuum, it’s part of a very old and mature legal system.
Vince:
I just wanted to make sure that Pirate News was aware of the gravity of the situation.
Bron,
You are making us afraid, very afraid.
Everyone, watch the skies.
Footnote, The Fly, The Thing.
VinceT:
that was just a smoke screen put up by the Osterons to deflect possible investigations into Pres. Obamas past. They know how much earthlings, especially Americans, like Superman and so figured it would take the heat off and they would be able to hatch their nefarious plan covertly.
Berliner, while I understand the motives behind the legislation you cite, the phrase “capable of disturbing the public peace” is a serious problem for me. Since virtually anything anyone says that is the least bit controversial is “capable of disturbing the public peace,” the determination as to whether a crime has been committed in a particular instance is left to the discretion of the official charged with enforcement of the statute. Under our system, the statute would be deemed unconstitutionally vague in my opinion.
I am sorry Bron, but your friend is completely off base about Obama’s alien origins.
Obama admitted the truth in his own words when he confronted the rumors on the campaign trail last year. Here are his words, with the source that all can check:
QUOTE ON Americans have a big choice to make, and if anybody feels like they don’t know me by now, let me try to give you some answers. Who is Barack Obama?
Contrary to the rumors you have heard, I was not born in a manger.
I was actually born on Krypton and sent here by my father Jorel to save the Planet Earth. END QUOTE
Source: http://politicalhumor.about.com/od/barackobama/a/obama-al-smith.htm
Occasion: Annual Al Smith Dinner, New York City.
“However, the West cannot claim to defend free speech while exempting certain unpopular or intolerable theories. It would be better in my view to allow good ideas to defeat bad ideas in the free market of speech.”
*************
While I certainly agree that free speech is the issue here, there is some truth to Mike’s comments supra that “When in Rome….” Were I the decider in the Obama Administration, I would certainly communicate my strong opposition to this law — about 36 months from now. Call me a natural justice aficionado. I am aware of no time constraint that compels me to act any sooner especially when both of my principles can be satisfied.
Pirate News:
CAthy Obrien looks like she is 10 eggs short of a dozen.
By the way a friend of mines husband works for the NSA and he says that Barack Obama is an alien from the planet Osteron I in the Antibes Galaxy. He is the point man of an intergalact invasion force, the teleprompters he uses are actually inter-galactic communication devices he uses to receive messages from his leaders. He uses a device to change the pitch and tenor of his vocal chords for mass mind control and that was how he was elected.
The Osterons’ want earth because their women have all died and so will use earth as a nursery to replenish women on their planet.
Please keep this information under your hat. We er they are looking for sympathetic earthlings to help with the invasion.
What is David doing in the Czech Republic??? Last I heard he was teaching students in Eastern Europe (Romania?) How jews should be slaughtered again, etc. It is nice to see Neo-Nazis getting the @#$! beaten out of them in the more civilized countries in Europe; at least it allows the Euros some form of public remorse when they discriminate against Nazi vermin. You are probably correct in your legal defense of Duke; but you choose an interesting man to defend and an interesting cause to champion, i.e., opposing the censorship of Nazi material and general jew hatred, when you know countries like Germany will never back down from such a policy. The Czech Republic had a fun group called the Iron Cross who used to torture their victims (jews) by burning their genitals with candles before they killed them. I’d say the Czechs need to feel better about themselves, don’t you? hugs and kisses David!
Pirate,
It just happened here. Free speech.
Think it cant happen here?
American artist and resident Ernst Zundel was arrested and denied habeus corpus in Knoxville Tennessee, tortured with dogs in Blount County Justice Center (where judges have no requirement for legal edukashun nor law license and are convicted of pedophile rape), deported to Canada without charges, deported to ZioNazi Germany, given a secret showtrial without transcript, sentenced to life on death row for publishing a history book written by a British school student.
http://www.zundelsite.org
If you prove that 600,000 jews were killed in WW2 instead of 6-million, or you complain about 50-million Christians holocausted in WW2 for jewish banksters, YOURE GOIN TO JAIL!
Never mind that jewish historians report on History Channel and CSPAN that Adolf Hitler Schicklegruber Rothschild was jewish heir to half the world’s banking fortune, and 150,000 Khazar AshkeNazi non-Semitic jews ran Nazi Germany in WW2, targeting Sephardic Semitic Jews to “justify” inventing Israel by stealing Palestine.
But if youre a grand dragon of the KKK and stick needles in Cathy OBrien’s eye, you’ll be elected to a lifetime of Congress and worshipped as a god by media mercs (Senator Robert Byrd).
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ei=j0_2SbG6MoKMtgeW1MG2Dw&sa=X&oi=spell&resnum=0&ct=result&cd=1&q=cathy+o%27brien&spell=1
As is consistent with the Noriega case. The 4th Amendment has no applicability outside of the US. So, I guess the 1st Shouldn’t either.
Berliner:
after what NAZI’s did to Germany I would think you would shoot those SOB’s on site.