Speaker Nancy Pelosi has issued a new statement (and explanation) after released documents appeared to contradict her earlier denials that she had ever been briefed on the use of torture. As discussed in a prior blog, Pelosi previously insisted that she was never told that these “enhanced techniques” (aka torture) were being used and assumed that the briefing concerned just a hypothetical use of the methods. Now, she is changing her story to acknowledge that she, at a minimum, knew that the methods would be used — even though she is denying that she was actually told that they had been used. I discussed the story on this segment of Rachel Maddow’s show.
Here is the new spin:
“As I said in my statement of December 9, 2007: ‘I was briefed on interrogation techniques the (Bush) administration was considering using in the future. The administration advised that legal counsel for both the CIA and the Department of Justice had concluded that the techniques were legal.'”
The latest effort to explain her collusion in the torture program falls a bit short. First, the CIA memo dated to Sept. 4, 2002 says Pelosi received a “briefing on EITs (enhanced interrogation techniques), including use of EITs on Abu Zubaydah, background on authorities and a description of particular EITs that had been employed.”
Second, it hardly amounts to a morally superior position to say that I was told that they were going to torture people, not that they had already tortured people. Describing war crimes in the future tense has never been a viable defense. It is like saying that the White House was describing a murder in the future tense, so I really did not see why I had to act to stop it.
Third, this is not what she previously told the public. Here is what she told Rachel Maddow:
(on camera): September 2002, you were briefed on CIA detention issues and enhanced interrogation issues. Because of those briefings, and I know you that you expressed concerns to the NSA after that October 2001 briefing, you released that publicly in 2006. You didn`t express public concerns at the time after those briefings. Does that raise a complication?
REP. NANCY PELOSI (D-CA), SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES: No, no. The fact is they did not brief – first of all, we`re not allowed to talk about what happens, but I can say this. They did not brief us that these enhanced interrogations were taking place. They did not brief us that was – they were talking about an array of interrogations that they might have at their disposal.
MADDOW: Techniques in the abstract, as if they were not being used?
PELOSI: We were never told they were being used.
MADDOW: Were you told they weren`t being used?
PELOSI: Well, they just talked about them, but they – the inference to be drawn from what they told us was these are things that we think could be legal and we have a difference of opinion on that.
But they never told us that they were being used because that would be a different story altogether. And we had many disagreements with them all along the way on how they collect information in their country and what they think might be acceptable.
They have never gotten any comfort from me on any of these issues, no matter what they want to say publicly. And they know that I cannot speak specifically to the classified briefing of that kind. But I can say flat out they never told us that these enhanced interrogations were being used.
“They did not brief us that these enhanced interrogations were taking place. They did not brief us that was – they were talking about an array of interrogations that they might have at their disposal.” Now, Pelosi is admitting that, at a minimum, she knew that these techniques were going to be used. She knew about the torture program and did not act to stop it.
Finally, this argument completely abandons any semblance of oversight responsibility. It amounts to arguing “if you can’t believe the Bush White House on international law, who can you believe?” What is particularly striking is that Pelosi is using precisely the same argument that she rejected from Jane Harman on the unlawful surveillance program. Harman insisted that, while she was the critical oversight authority in Congress, she had no knowledge of the law in the area and specifically FISA. She just had to accept the Bush Administration’s insistence that it was legal and did not even have the ability to ask for general information on the law in the area. Now, Pelosi is saying that she just had to accept that a torture program was lawful because the White House said it was. The primary oversight responsibility of these members is to be sure that the Executive Branch is complying with the laws written by Congress. It makes a mockery of the system for Pelosi and Harman to simply take their word for it. The federal law gives Pelosi and Harman the obligation to serve as a check on executive authority, but they believe that this role compels them to accept whatever they are told on the legality of the program. They are simply informed and have not obligations or responsibilities — even when they are given a description of torture.
Pelosi’s claim that she could not take any further steps because of the classified nature of the briefing is equally bizarre. Since when can the White House classified a crime — and a war crime to boot? At a minimum, Pelosi could have demanded classified hearings and move to legislatively block the program — while demanding prosecution. She could have demanded a full legal briefing (classified if needed) from democratic staffers on the Intelligence Committee on torture. She could have publicly stated that she believed that the White House was engaged in violations of international law and demand the release of information.
There were an estimated 65 members briefed on 40 different occasions. There were many things that she could have done in the face of a war crime. Instead, she and dozens of legislators were ultimately briefed on a program and remains silent — as they campaigned on their commitment to human rights and civil liberties.
The Bush Administration knew these members all too well. They fully briefed them on torture on the anniversary of 9-11, knowing that they would not dare to try to stop the program. Then, they held these briefing over their heads over years as the Democrats quietly blocked investigations and protected people like former Attorney General Michael Mukasey from having to answer questions on torture.
Democrats cannot demand justice for Bush officials without holding these democratic members also accountable. This is becoming a party of chumps, who will accept any spin to excuse the conduct of their own leaders while denouncing the conduct of GOP leaders. These very same Democratic members, particularly Pelosi, blocked past efforts to investigate the torture allegations and blocked any effort to look into impeachment due to the commission of war crimes. It is now clear (as some of us have been saying for years) that these investigations would have revealed the involvement of Democratic members.
On the face of this latest explanation, Democratic voters should be outraged on the lack of personal responsibility claimed by leaders like Pelosi. They are basically claimed that oversight means little more than being briefed with no affirmative duty to challenge such claims as torture being perfectly legal. Any research into waterboarding would have shown that it has long been defined as torture and a crime by the United States. Yet, these members did not want to be in a position of having to question a popular president, particularly on the anniversary of 9-11. They preferred to remain in willful blindness and public popularity. Now that the public is outraged by the torture, there is an effort to re-write the history and excuse the lack of action.
For Pelosi’s statement, click here.
J. Edgar Hoover developed and eventually perfected these techniques as head of the FBI forever.
It comes down to nip it in the bud or it will nip you in the arse:
http://blogdredd.blogspot.com/2009/04/vision-nip-it-in-twirl.html
Rut Roh:
how about some chicken sheeit republican posers too?
It has been disturbing to see Democrats place the blame for everything on Republicans while it’s obvious neither party has clean hands.
Because I do feel it is incredibly dangerous to have people in postitions of power who are completely lawless and have no compunctions about lying to the people here’s what I believe sould happen.
Each and every person involved in war crimes, from top to bottom should be given a pardon provided they do two things: 1. resign from the govt. and very importantly, 2. write a full account of everything they know and did in connection with war crimes. Should they fail to do either of these things, they should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law.
In the meantime Holder should immediately appoint an independent special prosecutor to investigate and charge anyone involved in war crimes. This must take place as a parallel step for the pardon in exchange for resignation/truth telling to have any teeth.
I further hope that despite any and all threats (blackmail and other types), people who care about this country will continue to leak everything they can on the corruption at the very core of our govt.
Finally, I hope citizens will stop accepting all excuses and rationals given by their leaders for failure to act on clear evidence of crimes. This cannot be finessed out of existence. Other countries are going to ask for our war criminals’ extradition. It’s probable that our current leadership will refuse this request and protect wrongdoers instead. We have to acknowledge the dangerous state of living in a society where the top people in our govt. participated in war crimes, are currently participating in financial crimes, are likely even now, participating in war crimes and use lies and propaganda to keep people cowed into submission.
Dick Cheney will once again tell his story on TV this Sunday. I’d like to see him arrested on the spot and in front of the viewers. I would also like to have the arresting officers read him his rights, and tell him he is welcome to a full pardon provided he admit guilt and reveal everything he took part in. The fact that he is running around speaking everywhere is proof of a propaganda campaign against the people of the US. He should have been arrested and offered the pardon deal a long time ago. This same holds true for any and all Democrats involved in the war and financial crimes our entire society is paying for at this time and will continue to pay for many years to come.
Rut Roh:
thanks for the link, if true that was very disturbing. They should have been whistleing
the Milice:
We shall smite the Jews and the Marxists,
We shall avenge our brothers killed by them,
So that the National Socialist ideal
Should one day be proud and victorious
Or the Horst Wessel Song.
I will support torture allegations investigations when the following despicable thieves and liars resign:
Murtha resigns
Rangle resigns
Dodd resigns
Frank resigns
Pelosi resigns
Wasserman-Schultz resigns
Nadler resigns
Waters resigns
Hoyer resigns
Conrad resigns
and another 40 crooked Democrats in the House resign
and another 10 crooked Democrats in the Senate resign.
So I will support the investigations as soon as the above resign.
rut rho,
I fear that you are stuck in a rut; rho!
You can’t believe a word out of the mouths of any Democrat in Congress anymore.
The whole Democrati party is a scandal in itself.
Anybody that votes for the party that mortgages our children’s future – the Democratic party – to buy votes to day is foolish.
Okay, let’s put her in prison along with Bush, Cheney, and all the other criminals involved.
QoS,
Seconded! I’ve always found it repugnant when a public official demonstrates a clear lack of understanding of the fundamentals of their responsibilities.
Hey mespo,
I am a silent daily RSS lurker for the most part. Hope all is well and remember, I am looking in…
🙂
Former Federal LEO,
You’re no hick. Any hick knows to use “ya’ll”, not ‘ya”.
Busted as an imposter. But I don’t blame you for wanting to be like me.
lol
Yo B’Man,
From one ‘hick’ to ‘nother, us’n po’folk is fixin’ to git this govmit workin’ ‘gin, pert nigh directly, I’ll tell ya what!
Let me get this straight:
Both Nancy Pelosi and Jane Harmon had oversight responsibility for acts being committed by the Bush administration relative to international laws on torture and domestic surveillance, yet they were not familiar with the relevant laws on those subjects? They were ignorant of the laws they were responsible for upholding? Are you kidding me?
If I were responsible for overseeing quality control in the manufacture of products sold by my company, and I had no knowledge of the industry’s quality control standards, wouldn’t I have the responsibility, first to become familiar with those standards and then to report violations to the managers and owners of the company? And if I did not exercise my oversight responsibility and the company’s products injured or killed someone and caused the company to suffer damages, wouldn’t I be named in the ensuing lawsuits?
Not even knowing the laws these legislators were responsible for seeing that the administration followed – and just accepting the administration’s definition of those laws – is gross negligence, if not incompetence. They should be censured, even impeached for their dereliction.
I’m a Democrat, but this plea of stupidity by Pelosi and Harmon is embarrassing, unforgiveable and intolerable.
Beulah:
The truth can often be stated with elegant simplicity; it is deceit which always needs convolutions to be believed. Good to see you back!
Prof Turley,
I saw you on the Rachel clip and it could not have been put more simply than you did.
I watch these politicians dangle and flutter in the wind over this issue, changing, lying, covering up for each other.
Then, I see someone like you, stating simply and perfectly the real issues and obviousness of their complicity in these acts and I can’t help wonder why more people aren’t outraged and demanding accountability (not just in this issue, but all issues). Is there anything they do that can be trusted? Telecom Immunity? Look at their coffers. Bank bail outs? Coffers.
We need to abolish the Demublican Party by realizing what crooked and OWNED people they have become and vote their asses out.
You are a Patriot for standing up and I thank you!
B’Man
rut roh:
“Mr. Turely, wateboarding was done to over 40,000 American soldiers to train them. Did we torture our own soldiers?”
*********
You waive this talking point around like some novel banner of enlightened thought which decimates your opponents. All that banner does is proclaim the stupidity of the standard bearer.
Pelosi was in this group wasn’t she:
One Saturday afternoon a few weeks ago, a group wearing “BOYCOTT ISRAEL” T-shirts entered a French branch of Carrefour, the world’s largest supermarket chain, and announced themselves. They then systematically advanced down every aisle examining every product, seizing all the items made in Israel and piling them into carts to take away and destroy. Judging from the video they made, the protesters were mostly Muslim immigrants and a few French leftists. But more relevant was the passivity of everyone else in the store, both staff and shoppers, all of whom stood idly by as private property was ransacked and smashed, and many of whom when invited to comment expressed support for the destruction.
“Others may find Germany in the ’30s the more instructive comparison….” Judge for yourself. Here once again is the video.
Mr. Turely, wateboarding was done to over 40,000 American soldiers to train them. Did we torture our own soldiers?
I am wondering, next attack on America which is no doubt planning now, who will you blame then for your Bush is not around.
Looking forward her to being FROG MARCHED out of Congress and put in the slammer – not for approving torture – but for lying about what she knew & when she knew it.
Good Morning heres something to start your day:
http://politics.theatlantic.com/2009/05/pelosi_torture_and_the_wilderness_of_mirrors.php