Despite earlier indications that there would be a release of detainee photos, President Obama has ordered that the photos been withheld in defiance of a judicial ruling. I discussed the development on this segment of the Rachel Maddow Show.
The Defense Department was set to release hundreds of photographs showing alleged abuse of prisoners in detention facilities in Afghanistan and Iraq. However, the White House has announced that the President has yielded to demands to withhold the pictures, citing the safety of U.S. troops are the reason — the very same reason given by the Bush Administration.
White House Press Secretary Robert Gibbs stated “the president reflected on this case and believes that they have the potential to pose harm to the troops. … Nothing is added by the release of the photos.” Well, there is that transparency in government thing. There is also showing the world that we are going to come to grips and take responsibility for our actions. It is hard to accept responsibility for acts that you will not disclose to the public. The value is to show that the United States will not hide its abuses or hide from its responsibility.
The Administration also ignores that enemies already have sufficient photos for recruiting. What they also have is the argument that we are a nation of hypocrites who engage in torture when it suits us — only to resist investigation of those war crimes. Concealing our abuse of detainees only reaffirms this message.
Obama’s comments come directly from the Second Circuit opinion rejecting the very arguments that he made in the press conference. The court rejected the attempt to use FOIA as “an all-purpose damper on global controversy.” Obama himself pledged in January not to allow agencies to withhold material under FOIA that would embarrass the government. To add insult to injury, he also said that the release might interfere with “future investigations” — like the investigation his administration has blocked into torture.
Here is the Second Circuit opinion, acluvdod_photodecision
For the full story, click here.
Mespo,
You said it much better than I could have.
rafflaw:
“Maybe I am just too dense, but I don’t think the photos have any bearing on whether authorizing waterboarding(among other torture techniques used)is torture or not. The photos would have no bearing on any investigation in my opinion.”
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I don’t see it as the sine qua non either. As I said before we invest our leaders with discretion to fulfill their duties, and they are apt and encouraged to exercise it. I am sure the military intervened to convince the President that the timing was poor and that it could cost lives. If that is the case, it is a tough call, JT’s eloquence notwithstanding, and though our enemies already have pictographic motivation enough to hate and kill us, I would not want the blood of one more serviceman or servicewomen on my hands if I could achieve my purposes by other and less provocative means. I think that’s the “grown-up” position, my apologies to our host, whom I admire greatly but with whom I respectfully, in part, disagree.
rafflaw,
You are not too dense, just too durn loyal and fair.
Jill et al,
I agree that I would have preferred that the photos be disclosed as agreed upon. However, I do not see the evidence that this will lead to a killing of investigations and prosecutions. Maybe I am just too dense, but I don’t think the photos have any bearing on whether authorizing waterboarding(among other torture techniques used)is torture or not. The photos would have no bearing on any investigation in my opinion. It does worry me that he is diluting his promise of transperency, but I still think the rule of law will be upheld. We do need to get Prof. Johnsen confirmed in the Senate asap. I think she will have a big impact on persuading Holder to put the hammer down on the Bush regime.
rafflaw,
I think JT addressed this point very clearly on RM. Obama is claiming several things, a couple of which are contradictory. One thing he’s saying is the photos just show the work of a few bad apples. As JT pointed out, 100’s of more photos are proof positive that it was most certainly not the work of “a few bad apples”. Rather this was a systemic policy initiated from the highest level and communicated to every level of those involved in torture. There was a chain of command from the DOD and the DOJ going to each of the groups under their control. This is one indisputable way in which the release of these pictures does relate to prosecutions of war crimes. The pictures are evidence linking torture to the top of the food chain because they show torture was systemic.
I also think we have to consider carefully what FFLEO wrote about. Secrecy to protect the govt. from embarrassment is also, as JT pointed out, a very bad idea. Anything and everything may be covered over with the claim that it would make the US look bad.
JT said this makes a mockery of our rule of law. In my opinion, it is past time to protest the actions of Obama. There is no waiting around to confront the abuse of power. It must be confronted swiftly and with as much strength as we can muster.
Any first year law student would…
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What about Prof. Turley I think he passed that grade…
I think it can be equally argued that NOT releasing the pictures is dangerous. Firstly, the shock value of new photos will not be anything like the initial photos. It’s second hand news.
Is any extremist or potential extremist going to get fired up over MORE pictures? They have already exploited that opportunity. On the contrary, showing the new pictures indicates we are willing to air our dirty laundry, accept responsibility, and most importantly, affirm that we don’t do it any more. It is the final act in declaring an end to that type of prisoner treatment. That eliminates a recruitment argument.
NOT releasing the pictures suggests to extremists that we have something to hide and THAT will be used as an extremist recruiting tool.
Imagine yourself in the shoes of an Islamic extremist trying to recruit some teens to the cause or encouraging a group to go out on the attack against Americans.
How do you suppose he will “describe” the pictures the evil Americans are concealing from the world?
I think we are far better off coming clean.
As someone who worked in law enforcement, I support Obama’s decision. Not only would those photos be incendiary and cause more trouble for our troops (recall Abu Ghraib and it’s blowback) but ALSO releasing the photos would compromise the integrity of the investigation.
By NOT releasing the photos, there is less likelihood of witnesses being tainted or being ACCUSED of being tainted. This is often done in criminal investigations. The photos from a crime scene, for example, is kept under wraps until the trial so that witnesses are not influenced (or accused of being influenced) by the images.
Any first year law student would argue that the witness had seen the picture beforehand and therefore their testimony is tainted and suspect.
It’s very sound decision. Obama isn’t trying to cover anything up. he’s attempting to protect the investigation.
BuelahMan
1, May 13, 2009 at 8:44 pm
“Morphing into the previous administration”!
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Right. And the word ‘diametrically’ twice. I love the word ‘diametrically.’ 🙂
Prof. Turley was just on the Maddow show. It was an excellent interview. The Professor made a very strong statement against whitholding the photos and against the Administration/Obama position. Excellent! I hope it gets UTubed or transcribed and posted soon.
“Morphing into the previous administration”!
Kudos, sir.
rafflaw,
The reasoning for not releasing the photos is parochial and then having Obama instructing the DOJ to fight the release, after he campaigning hard for transparency, is unconscionable and abjectly hypocritical.
There has been a lot of hysteria over this change of heart about these pictures. It has even brought out the trolls in full force. As usual they do not worry about the facts.
I am also upset that these photos are not going to be willingly disclosed, but I do not believe that they have a bearing on the investigation and prosecution of war crimes by the Bush regime. When the door is closed by Holder and the Obama Justice department, I will join the chorus claiming that Obama has sold out. But until that time, I am still a believer that the rule of law will be upheld.
LKatz,
My concern is that this decision will set the standard as Bush did and we are in for at least 4 more years of secrecy. Decisions by the president do trickle down through government. In February we submitted a FOIA request and for the first time ever the NGO is was assisting got the full information in 20 days!
My FOIAs have averaged 4+ months, and as you noted, most of time the redactions are so heavy that the information is worthless. Appealing is time-consuming and the next request is still redacted.
MrPlow:
Between rachel maddow & keith olbermann their aren’t more than a few hundred thousand viewers plus I have watched both and NEITHER OF THEM HAVE BROUGHT THIS PELOSI hypocrisy up other than TO MAKE EXCUSES FOR THEM.
Plus your hero, the overbearing Turley is also making excuses for PELOSI.
NOW!
Breaking news that new Gallup poll coming out shows massive American support for harsh interrogation including waterboarding when ordered by the President of the United States in extreme circumstances.
Looks like Obama is pulling a Clinton: running his Presidency around POLLSTERS!
Breaking news that new Gallup poll coming out shows massive American support for harsh interrogation including waterboarding when ordered by the President of the United States in extreme circumstances.
Looks like Obama is pulling a Clinton: running his Presidency around POLLSTERS!
kelly ann, both Countdown and the Rachel Maddow show have talked about Pelosi and torture on multiple occasions. I’m pretty sure that Prof. Turley has talked about it on their shows, as well. Whose words are those that you cut and pasted here?
Former Federal LEO
1, May 13, 2009 at 7:48 pm
“If people like me have ever had to fight transparency and accountability in government by requesting numerous documents through FOIA requests and the State Public Records requests, then you understand my outrage of what Obama has done here.”
Been there, done that. A case submitted to third party investigation contained my entire file on the matter. Later when it became apparent I would never receive an answer regarding the outcome of the complain I initiated (to a Federal Agency) a FOIA request. After months and months I got the docs. Almost all of the docs were redacted to some extent, all of the ‘good stuff’- investigative process, conclusions, recommendations, redacted completely and my file docs as part of the record were redacted beyond recognition. I am amazed that anyone gets ANY info from the Feds. FOIA is lipstick on a pig in major part IMO.
I never watch the major news networks, kelly ann, because I know I can count on you to tell me what to believe. Thank you so much for your insight and persistence.