New York City health officials are investigating the death of a baby boy who died of herpes after a circumcision by Rabbi Yitzhok Fischer. Fischer carries the herpes virus and is believed to have infected two other infants while serving as a mohel. Under the Orthodox practice followed by Fischer, he actually uses his mouth to suck the blood from the infant’s penis when he cuts the foreskin.
Infants are particularly susceptible to the virus given their reduced immunity systems. Within ten days of the circumcision, one of twin boys died from the virus and another was infected.
The Book of Genesis stipulates circumcision as a defining mark for the descendants of Abraham: “Throughout all generations, every male shall be circumcised when he is eight days old…This shall be my covenant in your flesh, an eternal covenant. The uncircumcised male whose foreskin has not been circumcised, shall have his soul cut off from his people; he has broken my Covenant.” (Genesis 17:1-14)
Metzitzah b’peh (“suction by mouth”) is rarely used outside of the Haredi and Hasidic communities. Under this practice, the mohel spits the blood into a receptacle provided. While most mohelim rinse their mouths out with alcohol to sanitize them, alcohol may not kill the herpes virus.
This will make for some novel criminal and tort litigation. It is difficult to see how this shocking practice can be allowed as a public health matter. As a matter of torts, the families can clearly sue this rabbi for negligence with punitive damage potential. Indeed, I believe that there could would be a strong case for battery. The question will be reckless homicide and other criminal charges. Presumably, this rabbi knew he was a carrier and yet proceeded to use his mouth rather than the more common suction device.
For the full story, click here
How’s this?
Male circumcision: pain, trauma, and psychosexual sequelae
http://epublications.bond.edu.au/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1036&context=hss_pubs
The section on “Cognitive Dissonance” is particularly interesting.
I don’t know what you’re talking about. Almost every line of the paper references sources and hyperlinks to the supporting research are provided.
Domino,
I have both a penis and a dictionary, and I appreciate your concern for both.
Your source is extremely biased, and even admits that “Without published studies, current knowledge of men’s feelings about their circumcision is generally based on reports from self-selected men who have contacted the Circumcision Resource Center (CRC) and other circumcision information organizations…”
Most of the paper consists of anecdotes and connections for which little or no evidence is put forth. This is quite simply not good research, instead it is an article that sets out to prove a specific view point.
Look I agree with you that in any light other than religious, circumcision just doesn’t make sense. I just feel that nothing is gained by exaggeration, and a rational discussion needs to be based on provable facts not unsubstantiated claims.
http://www.cirp.org/library/psych/goldman1/
The psychological impact of circumcision
-R. GOLDMAN
Circumcision Resource Center, Boston, Massachusetts, USA
Severe penile injuries are rare, but they are serious, and include penile amputation (partial or total), laceration, hemorrhage, and damage to the urinary tract. Other serious complications such as meningitis, penile necrosis, necrotizing faciitis, and sepsis can occur. Some of these, like meningitis and sepsis, can even cause death.
http://www.surgery.com/procedure/circumcision/morbidity-mortality
Barbarous:
▸ adjective: (of persons or their actions) able or disposed to inflict pain or suffering (“A barbarous crime”)
▸ adjective: primitive in customs and culture
Mike,
I wouldn’t lump Domino in with those others. She’s just plain anti-circumcision, I don’t think it matters who’s doing the cutting, or why they’re doing it. Personally, I can see a pretty good argument against it based on the fact that you’re scarring someone’s body without their permission. On the other hand I do think calling it barbarism is hyperbole.
My only agenda is to oppose people who think they have the right to violate the physical integrity of a vulnerable child and to wound and permanently alter that child’s body.
To Mike Spindell
You are correct. I believe based on the talmud and the bible, as well as koran (for all 3 originate from the abraham myth), these self-styled jews are evil. Just read your own talmud. Read israeli newspapers, that’s where I get my information concerning pedophilia in the yeshiva.
The question for you to ask is, “Are TruthBeKnown’s statements the truth?
IS,
When its the other person it always seems weird. The Rabbi with herpes was a bastard, but one story does not a history make.
Thanks Gyges,
I forgot about that one. When it comes to religion it’s always about looking at the other person’s practice and seeing how wrong it is. Sometimes there is merit in that like for instance Fundamentalist sexism. sometimes with people like spirit and domino there is another agenda afoot.
Domino,
Read your link and noticed that some of the evidence showed that the absence of a foreskin allowed men to keep from orgasming quickly. Do you know there is a whole industry devoted to just that problem? I always wondered why I had so many women tell me I was a good lover. Do you see that as a drawback? The rest of that link was predominantly old hat stuff, that was little more than drivel. I like my circumcised penis and honestly I hope that those without circumcisions like theirs. Nobody I know who is circumcised is in the least upset about it, though I suppose there are always some malcontents.
As far as Hitchens goes he is an idiot who is taken far to seriously than his content deserves. He is also a cold warrior and a sexist, not to mention currently ex-drunk. He isn’t someone I would go to for information, but then again I’m not you and to you Hitchens viewpoint might seem intelligent.
“Mike Spindell,
What kind of logic is that? Do you dispute what I stated?”
spirit of mountain,
That’s the kind of logic I use with people who actually believe as you do.
“Jews exert a lot of strategic control in the US. Relative to the US population, Jews are disporpotionately presented in positions of power and control, such as media & politics. Americans are sleeping.”
So what? Is this a counting thing, or is it a quota thing? Do you really believe there is some sort of Jewish conspiracy afoot? If there is please let me know about it so I can take advantage of it. This is the skinny on Jewish success.
1. To fully be considered a Jew one must be literate, it’s a tenet of the religion, so Jews have inordinately higher rates of literacy. As do Asians also, not for religious, but for cultural reasons.
2. Education is highly respected and prized in the Jewish Community above other attributes. Jews typically therefore are more highly educated than the rest of the population. However, Asians also have similar values and are running neck and neck with us.
3. Highly educated people, who read generally do well in the professions they choose. Some Jews choose politics.
What would you have Jews do? Should we ration the fields we go into so we don’t threaten people like you or cause you to suspect a conspiracy. Before you go to the obvious place Egypt receives as much US aid as Israel. However, even if that weren’t so, do you remember the problems in Northern Ireland of a few years back and how the Irish American Community, also a community powerful in numbers beyond their population percentage, had almost uniform support and US support for the Catholic cause. Should we suspect Irish Americans as being somehow strangely powerful as an ethnic group?
“I have Jewish friends, however I don’t have to like power control by Jews or anyone else disporpotionately.”
I’m so comforted by the fact that you have Jewish friends, perhaps some of them are even among your best friends. Do they feel as you do that Jewish power is wrongfully disproportionate? I’ll bet they don’t, or perhaps they are people of Jewish heritage that feel no connection with that heritage, or even Messianic Jews, who call themselves Jews but are Christians.
Now I must say I don’t call anyone anti-semetic because that is an appellation given to Jews by 19th Century eugenicists, that was later adapted by Hitler and the Nazi’s. As for you personally, I neither know, nor care if you are anti-Jewish, but your statements are prima facie insulting to Jews and it causes one to wonder how you feel about African Americans, or
Latinos, or Asians or Indians. All I know is that white people of Anglo Saxon/Scandanavian heritage are far more powerful in this country, than their percentage of the population calls for and I suspect you don’t find that bothersome.
Mike,
You’ve left off my favorite piece of Fundamentalist Christian barbarianism: The exorcism. Also, most of the Fundies I know still practice circumcision for religious reasons. Thank you Saint Paul.
Christopher Hitchens discusses circumcision with a rabbi and a minister.
This page brings together, in one place, scattered material relevant to the study of the role of the foreskin in human sexuality, and the dysfunction caused by its amputation.
http://www.cirp.org/library/sex_function/
Mike Spindell:
very good points. The Mormorals are really wierd.
oops.
Meant to say “lifelong Conservative Jew.” My bad.
Hugh 7 or lottakatz (not sure which),
This is I believe a rehash of the original story in 2004. I’m a lifelong conservative, but I come from a large predominantly very Orthodox family. I had over fifty First cousins, to give you an Idea of family size. I have attended untold numbers of circumcisions through the years and have never seen this sucking practiced, nor have I ever seen a baby in much pain. That this “may” and I use “may” because an Orthodox council ruled against it in 2005, be used by some Heredi, Hassidim (Fundamentalist) Jews is no surprise. To Jews many Fundamentalist practices and beliefs of non-Jews also seem cruel, inhuman and bizarre.
“In my humble opinion, this is as bad as female genital mutilation in its degree of insanity.’
Mr.Ed,
If you think male circumcision is comparable to a cliterectomy you are highly misinformed. The female procedure
renders orgasm almost impossible, while I can attest to the fact as a circumsized male that that hasn’t been the case.
To All Others so Horrified by the “Mutilation.”
I’ve always been very happy with my penis and its’ performance as are most of the other circumsized males I know. The many women in my lifetime who have favored me with sharing sexuality with them have not appeared to complain and many have expressed a preference for a circumcized penis over an uncircumsized one. I must admit not being gay to have seen many uncircumsized penises, but from what I remember of glances in the locker room I was not overwhelmed with wishing that I too had a foreskin. However, we are all entitled to pride, or lack of same in our own bodies.
As to those so horrified by the barbarity of Jewish practices I would submit to you that some Christian and other religious practices seem barbaric and incomprehensible to me. The “eating of the blood and body of Christ” for one. The RCC coverup of pedophilia and sexual malpractices of Priests is pretty reprehensible. The handling of snakes for another. The belief that the Earth is 6,000 years old also seems barbaric and incomprehensible. The self flagellation still practiced by Opus Dei also is strange to me as is the speaking in tongues by some Baptists and the Mormon underwear. The murder of Doctors by anti-abortionists also is barbaric. As is the picketing of funerals of our war dead by “God Hates Fags.” In fact the fear of homosexuality and need to attack gay men also is bizarre. I could go on and on but why bother. I have the right of freedom of my religion and you have the right of freedom for yours. In America most of those rights should not be interfered with, providing they’re lawful
Below is the result of a quick Google search, someone can make their own if they want.
http://judaism.about.com/od/bris/a/bris_2.htm
http://www.religionfacts.com/judaism/cycle/circumcision.htm
On page/column 572 in Volume V of “Encyclopedia Judaica” (Keter Publishing
House, 1971), the following is found;
“The next stage is the performance of mezizah (‘suction’). This has led to much controversy in recent years. Throughout the ages this was done by suction by the mouth in order, according to Maimonides, to remove the blood from the distant
parts of the wound (Maim. Yad, Milah, 2:2). It was the recognized method of disinfection at the time. A mohel who refrained from performing it was considered to be endangering the life of the child, and had to be debarred from
practice. Toward the middle of the 19th and the beginning of the 20th century cases of syphilis, tuberculosis, and diphtheria occurring in infants were ascribed to infection from mohalim using this method of suction. This has been
contested by a few Jewish doctors, and some communities still follow the original practice. The Paris Consistoire abolished mezizah in 1843.”
On page 167 of “Encyclopedia of Judaism” (Jerusalem Publishing House, Ltd.,
1989), the following is found;
“The circumcision itself takes only a few seconds, and is performed by a circumciser (mohel). Formerly the blood was drawn orally by the mohel but now an
instrument is used.”
Mike Spindell,
What kind of logic is that? Do you dispute what I stated? As soon as you hear something you don’t like, you make such a blanket statement? Boy, am I glad you didn’t call me antisemitic! I have Jewish friends, however I don’t have to like power control by Jews or anyone else disporpotionately. It goes against my understanding of what a democracy should be. Please stay objective if you can.