New York City health officials are investigating the death of a baby boy who died of herpes after a circumcision by Rabbi Yitzhok Fischer. Fischer carries the herpes virus and is believed to have infected two other infants while serving as a mohel. Under the Orthodox practice followed by Fischer, he actually uses his mouth to suck the blood from the infant’s penis when he cuts the foreskin.
Infants are particularly susceptible to the virus given their reduced immunity systems. Within ten days of the circumcision, one of twin boys died from the virus and another was infected.
The Book of Genesis stipulates circumcision as a defining mark for the descendants of Abraham: “Throughout all generations, every male shall be circumcised when he is eight days old…This shall be my covenant in your flesh, an eternal covenant. The uncircumcised male whose foreskin has not been circumcised, shall have his soul cut off from his people; he has broken my Covenant.” (Genesis 17:1-14)
Metzitzah b’peh (“suction by mouth”) is rarely used outside of the Haredi and Hasidic communities. Under this practice, the mohel spits the blood into a receptacle provided. While most mohelim rinse their mouths out with alcohol to sanitize them, alcohol may not kill the herpes virus.
This will make for some novel criminal and tort litigation. It is difficult to see how this shocking practice can be allowed as a public health matter. As a matter of torts, the families can clearly sue this rabbi for negligence with punitive damage potential. Indeed, I believe that there could would be a strong case for battery. The question will be reckless homicide and other criminal charges. Presumably, this rabbi knew he was a carrier and yet proceeded to use his mouth rather than the more common suction device.
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Bob,Esq.,
Poifect!
Couldn’t care less, rather.
Quite frankly, after the remarks he’s made — I could care less what his opinion of me is.
Mike,
How can you argue with “A few years ago, a Jewish representative, whose name and exact quote I cannot recall, said something to the effect that his first priority was to defend the rights of Israel?”
I just can’t think of a more telling indictment of a whole religious group than some guy somewhere saying something.
That being said, I sincerely hope you’ve reconsidered lumping Domino in with this guy.
It is quite commendable that Jews value education as a core of their being, perhaps more people ought to learn from that. And I don’t have a problem with Jewish politicians per se, if they present the interests of the United States first and best. A few years ago, a Jewish representative, whose name and exact quote I cannot recall, said something to the effect that his first priority was to defend the rights of Israel. Shouldn’t his priority have been representing the people of that state and also defending the United States? That is what I am talking about.
Since people’s religions or lack of, shapes their viewpoints, and attitudes, I believe representatives’ ideas should reflect the people they are representing. The engagement of educated Jews in any line of work does not concern me, however it should not affect the integrity of the political system either.
You seem to have preconceived ideas about anyone who is critical of Jews must be of a white racist. I am not an Anglo-Saxon, Scandinavian, nor am I racist. ( I hate racists) I value diversity greatly and immerse myself in different cultures and associate with and have friends from so many backgrounds. Perhaps once you evolve from that line of thinking, and become a little less defensive, then you might be able to understand my perspective better.
Royale Deluxe II
Spokesman…..Dan Aykroyd
Spokesman: Introducing the 1978 Royal Deluxe II. A luxury name and a luxury ride at a middle-range price? Impossible? We’ve come to Temple Beth Shalom in Little Neck, New York, and asked Rabbi Mayer Taklas to circumcise 8-day-old Benjamin Kanter while riding in the back seat of the elegant Royal Deluxe II. …
(continued)
http://snltranscripts.jt.org/77/77aroyaledeluxe.phtml
That is, intact and unmodified.
I am passionate about an infant’s right to reach adulthood as a whole human being.
Domino,
Dare I say it but you seem somewhat obsessed with sexual organs. Now I can understand why clittorectomy would concern you, since it concerns me. Also the tribal incision rites, rather than circumcision rites in many cultures are also cause for concern. I’m not saying that there are no concerns in genital mutilations, but I am saying categorically that I’m very happy being circumcised.
Although the skin can be stretched over the glans penis again — there is no way to replace the specialized tissue that is lost through circumcision.
Sadly, it is an irreversible injury.
“The trolls are coming out in force. Either JT is about to write another story critical of the govt. or some more news that will embarrass the govt. is on the way.”
Jill,
I suspect you’re right. There is someone named patriot posting on:
http://jonathanturley.org/2009/07/12/report-cheney-ordered-concealment-of-secret-program-from-congress/
Attacking Mike A in the same dumb manner. My suspicion as to the cause though is another brewing Republican sex scandal, only because they are obviously employing their least skilled operators prior to the Grover Norqvist Tuesday Meeting where the big guys like O’Reilly get the full talking points and marching orders. This is definitely poor quality trolldom.
“Actually, there is a process by which foreskins can be restored.”
Domino,
Then what is the problem? If there is a process to restore the foreskin, then I’d even recommend that it is mandated that health insurance cover it. There is also a procedure to enlarge the penis, some men are just so unsatisfied with their own equipment.
Gulliver and Glycon,
Thank you so much for your warm words of support. I’d respond in greater detail but your methodology says it all and with more clarity then I could possibly lend.
My apologies for the frequent posts; but this thread has attracted some wild stuff and thought some facts might help.
The picture in JT’s blog is also used by wikipedia and there is a lot of information there. I trust the reader to make up their own mind as to credibility but it might be helpful to some.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circumcision
Mike Spindell, your post sounds pretty stupid. Are you still taking your shit-for-brains pills. You should really cut back, they work just a little to well..
I should point out that the only article I’ve had time to read is the Goldman, and my comment about psuedo-science was directed entirely at it.
Domino and Lotta,
I think you’re missing the point I’m trying to make. The decision to circumcision is in a very emotional, private one, and in most cases religious one. Calling people that circumcise their children barbarians and linking to sensational psuedo-scientific articles is going to do absolutely nothing but make you feel vindicated. I don’t think you’re wrong, I just think you’re using way to aggressive of a rhetorical style for this particular issue.
To give you a brief glance over of the article in question:
All of the proof for the effect on the mother section is anecdotal from self selecting sources. From the paper “There are no studies of how these parents respond to observing their son’s circumcision. Personal accounts vary and may include strong emotions…” The rest of that section is carefully qualified by the words such as some, and other, etc.
I also find the trauma section particularly misleading; “To preserve a semblance of attachment to the mother, a child who has suffered trauma alters reality and ‘forgets’ that the trauma ever happened. [29].” The citation in question refers to a paper on sexual abuse, with no attempt made to prove that an infant’s reaction to circumcision with that of a child to sexual abuse. The paper is rife with this sort of slight of hand. For instance, the studies on ritual circumcision in Turkey were all based on children ages 2-10, and there is a world of difference between how a new born reacts and how a 2 year old reacts.
Those are just the three most glaring examples of problems, there are others.
The NYC health department deferred to religious leaders with regard to this practice and I don’t think anyone was sued but they updated their web site to include known risks.
http://www.nyc.gov/html/doh/html/std/std-bris.shtml
The CDC is a source for info on risk/benefit of circumcision.
http://www.cdc.gov/hiv/resources/factsheets/circumcision.htm
I have read Mikes’ blogs. He is as sharp as an apple….
When Mike Spindells family moves into a new neighborhood everyone knows it’s the Spindell clan. You know how? The trash cans are empty and the dogs are pregnant!