When Dick the Butcher declared in Shakespeare’s Henry VI “The first thing we do let’s kill all the lawyers,” he may have been prophetic. Jones Day partner Mark Herrmann has written on his blog that his unscientific survey shows that legal blogs tend to have a lifespan of less than a year.
We may have typos and trolls, but we are still here after roughly two years. That should count for something.
For the blog story, click here.
I do not want to appear that I am ‘grandstanding’ to get my way because that is not my intent. My concern is not personal but rather my apprehension for what is happening to this forum from some of the comments posted. I stated that I could no longer continue to be a part of this blawg, however, this fundamental fact remains; I simply cannot quit reading Professor Turley’s topics, his legalist insights, and his witticisms. I dislike that he had to take time away from his busy legal schedule, family, and possible relaxation to respond to my concerns and that someone might misinterpret my comments as in any way an indictment against the character of the extraordinarily exceptional legal scholar and gentleman that is Jonathan Turley.
I ask that commenters remember when they post here, what this blawg represents and how it might reflect on Professor Turley. This is ‘THE #1 LEGAL THEORY AND LAW PROFESSOR BLOG OF THE TOP 100 LEGAL BLOGS BY THE ABA JOURNAL’. Self-regulation within this blawg is easy when you respect the man and his blawg, just as you would while attending his lectures, classes, seminars, or any other fora graced by his leadership and scholarship. I am virtually a 1st Amendment absolutist; however, unprovoked personal attacks that contribute nothing to ‘legal theory’ simply must not be allowed by any standard of decency or decorum within this specific legal forum.
The ‘Top 500: Vote For Your Favorite Lawyers’ thread was the decisive factor for me. Once ‘Wayne’ entered, the topic changed from favorite lawyers to vulgar ad hominem attacks and then Patty C arrived with her characteristic irrelevance and irrational hatred. All Ms. C would need to do is use her skills as a lawyer/physician to contribute to the topics and posit forceful, reasoned, relevant debate instead of vulgar retorts that would repulse Ma Baker.
There are multitudes of available blogs replete with trashy talk and behavior but this is a specialized blawg directed towards discussions regarding the rule of law, the U.S. Constitution, and the Bill of Rights and how those principles affect the daily lives of U.S. citizens. Additionally, I am not objecting to the ancillary topics by others or even some of the blue language that sometimes occurs because that is part of the human condition, but I do condemn the irrelevant ad hominem attacks that tarnish this blawg’s rightful recognition as the place to visit for legal insights and discussion from a legendary legal expert. Substantively, the principal need is to advise everyone that unequivocal and abject ad hominem attacks will not be tolerated, rebuke those who continue the practice, and then follow-up with final expulsion for habitual violators.
I am going to force myself to refrain from posting any comments on this blawg for 1 month and perhaps Professor Turley can set up some basic rules so people know the boundaries of this forum, some of which were suggested in the Nip ‘n Tuck tread regarding a ‘face lift’ of this blawg. After all, is not the law all about rules/regulations that allow for freedoms within certain reasonable, acceptable, and time-tested limits? It seems somewhat incongruous that a renowned lawyer and Constitutional scholar would not have basic blawg rules and regulations of conduct posted, even within that ubiquitous legalistic fine print. I am wedded to rules and procedure from my duties as a law enforcement officer and as a retired scientist, both disciplines that must follow reasoned structure when dealing with facts, one regarding the rule of law and other while applying the scientific method.
Professor Turley, I would need a lexicon of the finest vocabulary of praise to express the admiration I have for you and all that you represent in the legal field and as a decent, well-grounded human being.
Good to have you back. I will indeed consider additional facelifts, though I am swamped right now in a couple of cases. The rules have been clear. It has been the compliance that has been weak. I intend to exercise a heightened level of deletion of personal attacks. There is no need for a waiting period. This is Virginia — we barely allow waiting periods for military style weaponry.
I’ve clearly stated my position. I am but a wheel
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You are nothing, but obsessed with me, BILe…
… Get over IT!!!!!!!!!
FYI, we AND our dogs are going sailing along the coast for the rest of the LONG weekend…
Sea ya,
~PC
Jill,
I’ve clearly stated my position. I am but a wheel. She built the road she is on. I’ve offered an olive branch more than once. Time for her to do the heavy lifting or she’s going to keep getting every attack turned back on her. You do realize that my serious request for intervention was pushing the big red button, right? Even with all of Wayne’s threats of violence, did I ever ask he be banned? No. I’d have not asked it now had I thought there was any way to get her to stop otherwise. That she has finally gotten to such a stoic guy as FFLEO just reinforces to me that she won’t stop. Ever. So . . . she’ll get what’s coming to her every time she talks trash just like any troll would. And just like any other troll, she can either suffer the damage she inflicts on herself, stop being a provocateur or leave. I made a good faith effort.
I’m all out of good faith and good will toward Patty.
Only slightly less out of them than I am for Neocons.
I’ll meet someone half way but I won’t walk all the way to let them kick me as they please. Now? I’ve been half way and walked back several times. I told her what was going to happen when it became apparent I was dealing with someone both unwilling and unable to stop attacking. If she wants to act like a loathsome child I’ll continue to treat her as such. It was her choice. She had more than one at bat and kept making the same choice. Choices have consequences. And if it’s true compulsion as the evidence leads me to believe? She’ll never stop no matter what me, you, AY or the Prof does (short of exercising his ultimate prerogative). She’ll become the resident freak show. Honestly, I think banning her would be an act of mercy.
While I’d like to comply, I’ve considered and rejected the tactic of letting Patty walk on whomever she pleases. It stared with you, moved to AY then to me. Who is next? Some other unsuspecting regular? A potential regular in the making like Byron? A long time unknown lurker who finally wants to comment and has something interesting to say? One of the valued semi-lurkers like Sally or Stel? A visiting person of interest whom she thinks is part of the conspiracy to get her? Who else of value will she attack in her attempts to aggrandize her self and her self-appointed paranoid delusion, er, title of “chosen leader”?
Really. How disturbed is that?
For better or worse, I’m the line in the sand. She runs me off when Hell freezes solid and Satan can dispense ice from his horns. 3 regulars attacked on irrational insubstantial grounds? The purest of ad hominem garbage? No, even if all I do is keep her psychotic attention focused on me instead of someone else, it’s worthwhile for the good of the whole.
If you don’t punish misbehaving children, they never learn. If you don’t label the unstable as they actually are, you run the risk of them being considered reasonable. To suffer a fool is one thing. To not name them a fool is another.
BULL!
I am the one being provoked here because I am female, intelligent, educated, independent, AND a physician who happens to hold a law degree but who never practiced law. apparently.
I managed BI claims for high risk insurers and someone who was also married, for a short time, to an environmental lawyer who worked for EPA and who never would have gone into private practice without my support.
I wish I never divulged my bona fides as I have been subjected to personal attacks more than any other ‘turlee’.
Mespo and I were here together at the start and remember what it was like in the beginning when DW, a buddhist, was alive.
I don’t care if FFLEO stays or goes as he made it clear early on that he was looking for female attention and flattery. I am NOT available for that BS, either. Just as Jill expected me to help her with her Legal Radio Show aspirations because I have links to the industry through my family. If I liked her style and what she had to say, I would have helped her, except I DON’T. She’s a whiny-ass victim, in my opinion. I can’t stand reading her crap!
I enjoy contributing to the world and I do a lot in my community, but I don’t like to be used for my connections nor insulted for my intelligence or ‘position’ in life!!!!!!!!! I work my ass off EVERY day.
I requested JT take a closer look, a few timnes, between 7/9/09 and 8/5/09 and to provide me with the identity of the person who posted under ‘Smartest Woman Ever’ and ‘Mind Your Bird’ as well as at all the insulting posts of AY and BIL I have endured.
I have not received a response since and which surprises me a litle, quite frankly. I know he has a busy schedule and forgive him for not making my complaints foremost on his list of
‘Things To Do”, however I am not taking responsibility for the current state of the tuleee blawg. This crap has been going on for a long,long, long-long time and I am more than tired of it.
~Patty C.
—————
“Thanks Patty C, I will take a look. I have not been able to keep up with the comments recently.
Best,
Jonathan”
Buddha and A.Y.,
Would you both consider ignoring Patty posts as well? I think this is the best way to stop things from getting out of control on this blog. If only one person participates in writing hateful things they will clearly show their intent and character all by themselves.
FFLEO,
I also ask that you stay on this blog. You contribute a great deal. I always read what you write, whether I agree with you or not, because it is very much worth hearing.
Please skip all Patty posts and continue to exchange ideas with the rest of us who value your ideas and contributions.
FFLeo,
It’s a battle zone out there as you well know. Dodge those who would have you down and out. This blawg needs your insight and your HELP!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QvlVBopw-co
I don’t understand how you could leave when we have all these boobs coming through here.
FFLEO,
Yeah, man. You should stay. You are a valuable contributor. Don’t let the actions of others take your voice. While I agree with you whole heartedly on this issue, please, just pass her attacks by as well as any counters played by me or others to keep the instigator’s true nature in camera. While I appreciate mespo’s loyalty – it’s admirable, I find it a bit perplexing at this point too simply because the evidence has changed. I don’t ask he come out against her. She’s his friend, his choice, no issue with that. I just don’t understand the continuing support. A formerly valuable contributor has degenerated into worse than troll like behavior by my reckoning. I just don’t see the value in that. Especially if it influences actual good contributors such as yourself to consider leaving.
Please stay.
The more regulars she can drive off, she wins. That’s what she wants. Control. So deprive her of that pleasure and stay. We get your continued valued counsel and she gets what she gets – either looking perpetually the fool or eventually banned. Both are fine with me. Her hyper-aggressive actions cannot really harm anyone but herself in the long run. I look at it as an exercise now that she’s totally exhausted good will and willingness to let her save face. How many times can I throw my opponent to floor before they realize the harder they attack the more damage they will take for their efforts? Angry and hurt? No. Just keeping score. A bit sad that a former friend has turned into a lost cause, but not angry or hurt by her churlish childish comments. I can’t speak for AY, but she does not harm me for certain. So don’t let her harm you too by leaving. That would harm us all.
FFLeo:
I too wish you to stay. I see no purpose in taking one’s marbles and going home. Patty C can be trying on occasion, but so can we all. On balance, I think Patty C contributes more than she detracts,and I must admit some feeling of loyalty arising from earlier discussions affects my attitude, but seniority has its privileges. You have always been respectful, erudite, and show a zest for the topics. Your absence leaves us all the poorer.
FFLEO,
Please stay. I will be here. I like what you have to say. Mespo for his own reasons does what he does. I am in and you? Please stay.
Professor Turley,
Since you continue to allow the insane Patty C to perpetually provoke other regulars for no reason and allow her spewing of foul language, then I will not continue to be part of this blawg. However, no loss, I never contributed much anyway.
Mespo 72, I will never understand why an intelligent man would defend Ms. C’s foulmouthed provocations.
Obviously, I am in the wrong crowd here and I certainly do not whatsoever want to be associated in any forum with someone like Patty C, even in cyberspace.
To the rest of the regulars, thank you for your comments and I learned a lot here.
FFLEO:
I have written to you directly today in case you are not returning to the blog to ask for you to reconsider. I struggle mightily not to ban people from the blog, though I have deleted individual entries when people become too personal. I have asked Patty C and others to refrain from these personal attacks and I will continue to try to monitor the site. My litigation schedule often makes that difficult, but (despite the perils of such an open forum) I hope that you will remain. As other regulars have pointed out, you are a valued regular on this blog and you would be missed.
That said, anyone who can find their way to my door tonight is welcomed to share a 6 pack of the best domestic Octoberfest I’ve tried, Left Hand’s.
So a short proposal:
While I personally don’t think comments should necessarily be forced to be only about the topic of the post (discussions sometimes get sidetracked), let’s keep the topics about the Professor’s (or this blog’s) achievements about just that. The man deserves the occasional slap on the back.
Mespo wrote:
“That JT has not seen fit to banish the presumed blogger, should tell you something.”
_________________________________
Yes it does; pure and simple bias.
FFLeo:
“Every congregation of people requires a modicum of decorum and removing troublemakers is standard practice whether in courts of law or in a courts of public opinion, such as this blawg.”
**********************
When the rightful authority makes that determination, most would accede but even then, banishment seems a bit medieval. When a disgruntled blogger calls for it against another blogger I tend to see peevishness. That JT has not seen fit to banish the presumed blogger, should tell you something. Banishment, as you know, is capital punishment for bloggers.
Well Mespo, I guess Prof. Turley also fits in Rev. Anderson’s category—by your reasoning—because he banished a regular from this blawg and with very good cause. How banal of you to interject Anderson’s name in such an irrelevant manner to try to make a point.
Every congregation of people requires a modicum of decorum and removing troublemakers is standard practice whether in courts of law or in a courts of public opinion, such as this blawg.
“Now, if we could only be shed of…well, it would not be nice to mention names,…”
*******************
Now, now FFLeo, snippiness is the vice of the small minded, as you know. I think we should rejoice in the voices that we like and ignore those we do not. Anxiousness to banish -or worse- is for the likes of the “Reverend” Anderson’s of the world.
Congrats on 2 years! Thanks for the information and analysis. And thanks to all who comment here. I really enjoy checking-in every day.
Now, if we could only be shed of…well, it would not be nice to mention names, however, the initials are *^##& $…
(No Doubt, I am in several someone’s eject/delete/be shed of category)
Overall, the discourse over the past few weeks has been exceptionally outstanding. Whether that is from Prof T’s moderation or adults performing as they should, I like the current Turley blawgosphere’s atmosphere.
The first link is “Papa’s got a brand new Bag,” well worth the click.