While the Obama Administration and Congress continue to spend hundreds of billions of dollars in Iraq and Afghanistan, legislators continue to dismantle our public services, parks, and educational programs due to budget shortfalls. In Utah, state Sen. Chris Buttars proposed one way of dealing with a budget shortfall: just eliminate the 12th grade. It is not clear why legislators have decided to keep public education at all. If we simply eliminate education, we can send children directly into military training or to work for foreign companies from countries that are expanding their research and educational budgets at the same rate of our decline.
Buttars suggested that 12th grade is really not that important and most kids are ready for the workforce or life at 17. The move would save $60 million out of the $700 million shortfall in the state’s budget.
Buttars appears to be backing off a bit under criticism from educators, but the proposal captures our self-destructive path. While nations like China are massively increasing research and educational budgets (here), we are selling off public lands and buildings, (here), while pouring money into Iraq and Afghanistan. What do we think is going to happen? Because few of our politicians have the courage to demand a withdrawal from these countries, we are raising our debt limits, destroying our public programs, and undercutting our ability to compete in the future marketplace.
Buttars is a Republican on the Education Subcommittee of the powerful Appropriations Committee in the Senate. He represents a district in Salt Lake and lists his occupation as retired. He holds Bachelor of Science, Marketing/Economics, Utah State University.
For the story, click here.
Some of you may remember looking at our paper money years ago. You might recall looking at the letter designation for the Federal Reserve Bank that issued it. Take a look at the money you have today. No more Federal Reserve Bank. It now says Federal Reserve System.
It’s definately a “System”.
Byron said “We have had all sorts of government regulations over the last 100 years, piled on top of each other. Wall St. is still regulated, there were plenty of regulations in place 2 years ago and we still got screwed.”
We didn’t have the proper regulations in place, and it wasn’t because we hadn’t thought about it.
In 1999 our Republican Congress, and President Bill Clinton repealed the one thing that would have likely prevented our economic crisis; the remaining portion of the Glass-Steagall Act. That piece of legislation, put in place to prevent another “Great Depression” was removed, and we headed right back to the same financial distress. What was that they say about forgetting history?
Why did they remove it? So the bankers could make more money. So the home builders could sell more houses. So that people who should not have qualified for a loan could buy those houses, and so that people could buy the new houses because they could easily sell their old house.
There’s plenty of blame to go around. From the Democrats who put pressure on Fannie and Freddie to grant loans to unqualified buyers, to the Republicans who would help their friends in the banking industry. It was the result of greed combined with too much compassion. It was an equal opportunity destroyer.
(individuals. as corporations cannot break the law because they are not human beings).
individuals are the driving force behind corporations and should be held responsible for illegal acts of a corporation.
Buddha:
Individuals make up corporations, individuals create corporations. Do I agree that individuals should be protected for bad things done by corporations? No, they should be prosecuted to the fullest extent the law allows. Since individuals create corporations they should be liable for criminal acts done by corporations (individuals as corporations cannot break the law because they are not human beings).
I am not in favor of anarchy, a free market is not anarchy because it would be controlled by the court system. If I have been wronged then redress is through the courts not through government regulation.
We have had all sorts of government regulations over the last 100 years, piled on top of each other. Wall St. is still regulated, there were plenty of regulations in place 2 years ago and we still got screwed.
“Fascism is impossible when corporations are kept on a short legal leash – which BY NECESSITY includes regulation of certain market activities.”
When you control a business/corporation by government regulations, that is Fascism. We have all kinds of regulations and they don’t work, we are no safer than we were in 1880. Industrial accidents still happen even though we spend billions on OSHA. Car crashes still happen even though we heavily control their manufacture and speed on our highways. I could go on and on with examples of government ineffectiveness in regard to regulations. They cost billions and billions of our dollars and do not provide the benefit in relation to the cost.
Why not try something radical? At this point we don’t have anything to loose and the upside is freeing the individual from the economic burden of government.
Byron,
Without laws, there is anarchy.
No market can be healthy and unregulated.
The logic you are failing to see is that deregulation is the cause of companies like Halliburton and AIG, the very enabling mechanism of their crimes.
And “don’t hate the players”? Was your IQ sharply reduced while I’ve been busy? The players ARE the problem. They have no checks anymore and, while the “good ones” are good there are a lot of sociopaths messing up everything. Lining up sacrifices on the altars to their greed and ego.
You stipulate individual freedoms are being curtailed and that is correct. Where you are incorrect is in correlating corporations and individuals. Corporate “rights” are an ever expanding “freedom” with the advent of Citizens United. Real, actual humans are having their rights screwed with every day by our fascist government. Corporations by contrast, are clearly being elevated in status in a way that is detrimental to democracy, representative or otherwise. Fascism is impossible when corporations are kept on a short legal leash – which BY NECESSITY includes regulation of certain market activities. Or do you think prohibiting the sale of heroin is a violation of the rights of the drug cartels? A cartel is an organization with levels of management and an eye to profits just like Exxon. The biggest being that the drug cartels have the cajones to do their own wet work. And while the word cartel is in play, let me just say OPEC. Drugs. Oil. Widgets. It’s all an exercise in market economics and you can’t regulate the horses without defining the track for the race just like you can’t run a race without horses. But the horses have to be appropriately behaved on the track or else there is anarchy and thrown jockeys, maybe even dead spectators as horse racing – like free market economics – is an inherently dangerous game with repercussions that can have negative effects on more than just the “players” themselves.
Buddha:
My logic is consistent, if you don’t have government regulations you don’t have companies trying to influence government to their benefit.
The problem is government regulation (all encompassing control) because it distorts the market and necessitates the graft and corruption you see. Government is making the rules, Wall St. and K St. are playing the game that government has written the rules to (hate the game don’t hate the players).
You get rid of government regulations (favoritism) and you end K St’s hold. If there is nothing to lobby for (favors provided by government) there is no need for lobbyists. Your way leads to more of the same or to having to expand government and make penalties more severe. I like limited government and that is why I am for unregulated markets. It is all about individual liberty, capitalism protects individual. We don’t have true capitalism and our rights are flying out the window. Connection? I think so.
Maybe it is time to give up on the mixed economy we have now and try something radical.
Byron–
“I fundamentally disagree with your premise about Wall St. Certainly those people make huge amounts of money and I doubt seriously they are worth the money they are paid, but how much are you worth, how much am I worth? I don’t want someone telling me an engineer is worth $10/hour or a $1000/hour, either way is limiting my freedom and yours. I may not be worth $10/hour or I may be worth more than $1000/hour.”
Did you read my entire comment? I wasn’t talking about the amount of money the people on Wall Street honestly earn. I was referring to financial shenanigans…about things like derivatives. And what about companies like Goldman Sachs that may have helped to hide the debt of Greece?
It was the repeal of the Glass-Steagall Act that led to some of the Wall Street abuses–which, in turn, led to the near collapse of our economy. Here’s something else that led to the problems on Wall Street: The Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act (GLBA), also known as the Financial Services Modernization Act of 1999.
There’s plenty of blame to go around–K Street, Wall Street, Congress.
P.S. I’ve never set foot in a Walmart store–and never intend to.
“has been”
Byron,
Yeah, it is interesting if you consider the pols work for Wall St. via K St.
Your premise is still flawed. You assume government is dysfunctional because it’s government when the truth is that government has be DISABLED by graft. And pay attention to the word disabled. It implies purpose.
Purposeful dismantling of control systems is called deregulation.
Government CAN work if you take corporatism out of it.
You acknowledge that corporatism is the problem, yet you keep saying that government can’t do the job without ever connecting the dots as to WHY government is dysfunctional.
Doesn’t your mouth get tired of you talking out of both sides of it? Or is that just a trait encouraged by being a free market capitalist? Taking corporatism out of government means regulation as matter of course and a matter of fact. But regulations written by the very people supposedly being regulated led to the current situation. Dysfunction – a purposeful dismantling of regulation by graft on K St. at the behest of Wall St. – is EXACTLY the root cause of our current economic situation.
Yet somehow it’s government you keep pushing as the problem, not the instigators of the internal takeover by fascists instead of the corporatists.
That’s some kind of interesting logic.
Wayne:
it is good to see the younger generation sees the writing on the wall.
Elaine:
“Things don’t look so good for the future in this country whether you qualify for social security or a government pension–or you have your own private retirement plan…unless we see some reforms on Wall Street.”
“Politicians began mucking around with the social security fund back in the 1960s.”
That is interesting.
Elaine:
I fundamentally disagree with your premise about Wall St. Certainly those people make huge amounts of money and I doubt seriously they are worth the money they are paid, but how much are you worth, how much am I worth? I don’t want someone telling me an engineer is worth $10/hour or a $1000/hour, either way is limiting my freedom and yours. I may not be worth $10/hour or I may be worth more than $1000/hour.
Government caused this problem with regulations and making banks offer loans to people that could not afford them. Barney Frank and Chris Dodd are at the center of this mess. Government regulations lead to behaviours that a free market would not tolerate.
As far as prices go, I love Wal-Mart and K-Mart.
Wayne–
“As much as my 401(k) took a hit this last year and a half, it will bounce back…”
**********
One never makes back the money one loses.
My retirement account took big hits twice in the last decade. I’m much older than you and retired. I don’t have years more to invest, keep my fingers crossed, and hope for big returns before I can begin to draw from my account.
BTW, I don’t receive social security.
I do have sympathy for your/my daughter’s generation. Politicians began mucking around with the social security fund back in the 1960s.
I think we’ll be seeing major problems with the funding of federal and state pensions in coming years. Things don’t look so good for the future in this country whether you qualify for social security or a government pension–or you have your own private retirement plan…unless we see some reforms on Wall Street.
I am in complete agreement with Tootie. Close government schools. All they do is indoctrinate our youth of tomorrow to be mindless sheep.
Byron–
“I believe the federal government caused that problem and exacerbated it with the TARP bailout.”
The government caused the problem on Wall Street? Not greedy folks and things like derivatives?
**********
“Dead wood in the private sector is not paid for by tax payer dollars it is paid for by private individuals. They have a choice apparently tax payers must support the idle and lazy in government service.”
There are a lot of dealings in the private sector that have been the cause of greatly raised prices of certain goods and supplies that ordinary people like me have to buy…raised prices that strain our budgets. Take the fact that a couple of years ago the price of oil spiked so much because barrels of oil were being traded an average of 27 times.
In regard to the health care costs: It is said that about 30% of the cost goes to paperwork–doctors and hospitals having to the fill out of all different types of forms from different insurance companies. That cost is much lower for Medicare.
“Privatize social security and allow people to provide for their own retirement.”
You suggest this after the debacle on Wall Street that led to the loss of many people’s life savings and pensions?
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These type of comments are amazing to me. People honestly believe Social Security will remain solvent for the forseeable future. In a way this sort of faith is adorable. In another way its terrifying how far people have their heads in the sand.
As much as my 401(k) took a hit this last year and a half, it will bounce back, and I know that at a minimum I will have something for my retirement. I am 34 and I know that I will not see a dime in Social Security. Younger workers are getting screwed. Hard.
I remember the outrage when the thieves at Enron scammed workers out of their retirement plans. This same thing is happening right this second by thieves like Nancy, Pelosi and Harry Ried. The only differences are that our politicians don’t want more money they want to preserve and expand their own power, and that when Social Security goes bankrupt it will hurt far more workers.
Good and bad.
First of all. The longer kids stay in US schools, the “dumber” they get.
That said, it could mess up a college application and the admissions process.
Anyway, get rid of the cesspool public schools, they are another tool of “social injustice” used by the fascists on the left to commit genocide which includes (completely or in part) overthrowing a culture and its traditions against the will of the people.
Mike A:
“Byron, I appreciate your consistent defense of capitalism,”
Actually I am defending the individual. Capitalism is the logical economic system for anyone that believes in individual rights. You cannot have a free society if you do not also have a free market. Political and economic freedom are corollaries.
If you do not have both you do not have liberty. If I cannot chose what I want to buy how am I free? How does public education make me freer? I have to go to the school in my community and I really don’t have much say in the curriculum. I have to pay for something I may not want because I disagree with what they are teaching or I think the teachers are sub-standard or I don’t like the football program.
The Rich don’t have that problem but the poor and the middle class do. Why shouldn’t we have vouchers or better yet privatize the public school system.
A free economic system allows for more choices for an individual, the more choices the more freedom. It seems simple to me. But too many people think they know more than 100’s of millions of people making decisions that benefit them and their families. I have found that people that think they know how to run an economy better than individuals making individual decisions really aren’t smart enough to do it and so we have the problems we have today.