A Montgomery County Middle School teacher had a 13-year-old girl escorted from the classroom after she refused to say the Pledge of Allegiance in clear violation of federal law.
Since 1943, it has been clear that children cannot be forced to say the pledge.
The school has apologized, but I am equally concerned about a position taken with the parents that has not been denounced by the school: that the school would refuse to meet with the parents if they brought an attorney. The family said that the school was adamant that, if a lawyer was present, they would not agree to a meeting. It is an outrageous policy designed to force people to forego legal counsel and I would like to know the legal and policy basis for such a rule.
For the full story, click here.
Slarti,
The DSM IVR classifies several Personality Disorders, one of which being Anti-Social personality disorder as Axis II Disorders, meaning that they do not classify as serious chronic mental illnesses but emotional/developmental disorers. The work that I do is primarily with people who have a diagnosis of a Personality Disorer. Typically I work with Borderline and Dependant PD’s, simply because they are the ones who are most likely to seek out services. Explaining PD’s is terribly complex, so I’ll give the Coles version. Essentially the ” best practice ” theory is that ppl with PD’s have suffered some type of trauma early in life and essentially miss out on stages of emotional development because of the trauma.
In cases of ASPD ( the most dangerous type of PD ), it is believed that the parent/infant bonding process was nonexsistant therefore ppl with ASPD do not develop skills of compassion, empathy, love etc. b/c they have missed that developmental stage.
I certainly would never ever condone Hitler’s rule, but at some point he was a little boy, who probably had hopes and dreams as all little boys do. Something however went terribly wrong in his life to cause so much hate towards perfectly innocent people. So not so much polite, but compassion as difficult as it is to muster for such monster like behaviour.
I think that I just answered a totally different question than you asked…lol. I just re-read, and I don’t think that acting in an ” evil ” manner out of pain, sadness etc. makes a person evil per say. That being said, I have no doubt that ppl can deliberately behave in an evil way after they have been
” scorned “. That, however, is revenge ” evil “!
In terms of parentling style, the one I described is the one I have always followed. I don’t believe that I have the parenting style that I have based on genetics at all. I believe it has more to do with the education that I gained through schooling in child development and behavioural science as well as being raised by people who loved me without overindulging me.
If you recall, the “group” here thought it was pretty funny the day the storm began, and enjoyed their majority in mocking and ridiculing both the storm, and me for pointing out that people had already died from it, and no doubt more tragic deaths were on the way.
The responses? “People die every day” and “is there a preferred way to die” and “its just a little snow” truly reinforce Canadian Eh’s lessons on the evils of group mentality as learned from the Nazi rule.
Whenever a group of people find their collective actions are to ridicule, mock and debase an individual with a morbid passion for continuity, then we see how far that mob rule can carry them. As we saw in Germany. Indeed its a fine lesson to be learned because as history has shown us time and time again, its usually the individual who brings change, and not the mob.
Being part of the mob or “Vulgus” as our fine Latin schooled attorney’s here will tell you is indeed to be in a prime position to commit evil on any scale. The Vulgus is usually wrong, because to be part of the Vulgus, you must invariably make compromises which invariably extend to principle, fact, reason and equity.
Compromise is essential to a healthy society, but good fences do indeed make good neighbors.
Mob rule has been the scourge of mankind since the beginning of recorded history.
Canadian Eh,
Semi-retired.
Did you see this one BD?
This happened today.
By DAN NEPHIN, Associated Press Writer Dan Nephin, Associated Press Writer – Sun Feb 28, 1:19 pm ET
PITTSBURGH – With her boyfriend in severe abdominal pain, Sharon Edge called 911 for an ambulance in the early morning hours of Feb. 6. Heavy snow was falling — so heavy it would all but bring the city to a standstill — and Curtis Mitchell needed to go to a hospital.
“Help is on the way,” the operator said.
It never arrived.
Nearly 30 hours later — and 10 calls from the couple to 911, four 911 calls to them and at least a dozen calls between 911 and paramedics — Curtis Mitchell died at his home. His electricity knocked out, his heat long off, the 50-year-old former steelworker waited, huddled beneath blankets on his sofa.
Slarti,
That is Ok I went to UT and there is a time period that I don’t recall very well.
AY,
I have also been accused, on many occasions, to be terribly sarcastic and have a wry sense of humour. What type of law do you practice?
C Eh,
Way to use Hitler to illustrate your point! (And in a polite way, too – not the usual way Hitler gets mentioned in an on-line discussion ;-)) Nice. As to your amendment – is there a distinction between anti-social behavior and evil behavior? In other words, does evil have to be deliberate and/or premeditated? I’m not sure that acting out of pain or grief can be considered evil per se.
I agree with you on parenting style. Based on my experiences with children of friends and relatives (I have none – children, not relatives ;-)), the most impressive of them have parents that do what you describe. Although there is correlation with the parents being impressive as well, so genetics is in play, too.
AY,
My neighbors across the backyard fence lived on Ramblewood. I don’t know who Sally Rogers is (or more likely, have forgotten). I can’t recall going to any of their concerts, but I’ve heard of 10 pound fiddle..
Gerty,
I don’t think being in the majority is intrinsically a bad thing (the majority of people think that murder is wrong, for instance), you just need to be on your guard against groupthink. As long as you are part of the majority voluntarily and for valid reasons, I don’t think there is a problem.
AY,
I think that divorce is rarely a fun thing, and typically brings out the worst in everyone involved. Really it’s too bad that divorce can’t always be more civil. People enter into marriage as a business contract really, businesses fail all the time why is it so difficult to accept that marriages also don’t work out? I suppose it’s because all of those pesky emotions get in the way!
As I understand it, women were not considered human beings under the laws of Canada until 1919 when most provinces allowed us the right to vote. As early as 1884, widows and single women were able to vote in municipal elections in the province of Ontario however. Quebec ( which should not come as a surprise to me ), preferred to keep us barefoot, pregnant and quiet until 1940 ( I am originally un belle femme des Montreal ). In terms of excercizing my right to vote, rest assured I excercize it at every opportunity and have since the age of 18
Duh,
Always looking for a handout. Pan Handling is not acceptable here. Somebodys gonna tell the Jonathan.
“I have had a neighbor win a lottery in my lifetime, my best friends ( at the time ) parents won a 5 million $ lottery when we were teenagers.”
Pretty cool! Did it change them? I bet you did benefit by being best friend. 🙂
Canadian Eh.,
Yes, I have been accused of being evil. When I did trial work we had very few hostages. There were a lot of casualties, collateral and otherwise. I had a tart, barbed tongue. It still can be that way. Not as much evil as sarcastic and a very wry since oh humor.
”
You’re absolutely correct with regards to the Nazis. I suspect that most were disguisted with the acts that they carried out ( I hope anyhow ), but did so to save their own lives. They learned very quickly the wrath that would fall upon them and their loved ones should they attempt to rebel against the orders laid down by Hitler. ” – Canadian Eh
Oh absolutely. One of the most poignant lessons we learned from the rise and fall of the Third Reich was the evil of group mentality, and mob rule.
The disregard to the individual replaced by the strength found in numbers make for a rapid transition away from reason towards collective insanity as the lesson from Nazi Germany made clear. We learned a harsh lesson during those years, and that lesson rings true today as we saw under 8 years of Bush.
Just because you’re in the majority, it doesn’t mean you’re right. In fact being in the majority, usually indicates a loss of individual thinking and accountability, and an increase in irrational behavior as justified by the false comfort provided by chanting in unison with the crowd.
Oh yeah, Canadian. It is safe to say we are not as close as we once were. You know those people that watched the concentration camps for the Nazi’s. The Ukrainian’s? The first Generations to America are not at all very forgiving. It was like I was dead. And they treated the DIVORCE
here like the old country. The man is supposed to walk away. But here in the US it was the woman that went away. They needed the children to work the farm and the women were dispensable after they bore children.
You know it was not until 1918 that White women got the right to vote in the US. Everyone had the right to vote but them, now exercising it was a totally different story.
Bdaman,
Thats good. LOL. TY. It is good to see humor and not take it piss on all. Or is that personal.
Slarti,
If that is S of Meijer’s and closer to Ramblewood. Not at all too shabby. I purchased Sally Rogers home if you ever heard of the 10 pound fiddle you’ll know what I am saying.
Duh,
thanks. Btw, I have had a neighbor win a lottery in my lifetime, my best friends ( at the time ) parents won a 5 million $ lottery when we were teenagers.
Slarti,
Very nice segue…and nice to FINALLY be back on topic, to some degree anyhow. I am going to take a leap and suggest that they have an open type parenting style. Teach your children about the world, let them have learning opportunities rather than mistakes, encourage discussion with every opportunity, answer questions honestly, praise and encourage appropriate behaviours, and pay little attention to not so appropriate behaviours
( unless of course there is potential for danger ), and love them unconditionally.
Canadian Eh,
Congrats on winning the game! It’s like having your neighbor win the lottery. It may not be as good as winning it yourself, but it’s good to see it go to a friend. 🙂
Byron,
You’re absolutely correct with regards to the Nazis. I suspect that most were disguisted with the acts that they carried out ( I hope anyhow ), but did so to save their own lives. They learned very quickly the wrath that would fall upon them and their loved ones should they attempt to rebel against the orders laid down by Hitler. Hitler was pure evil, and from the little that I do know about his younger days, he was picked on and bullied by peers throughout his youth.
I also have an amendment. I believe that “evil ” behaviour can also stem from emotions of hurt and anger, as with the ” evil ” that AY was referring to from his ex wife.
Byron,
Evil being hard to define is one of the things that makes this an interesting topic. As to you point about the Nazi’s – if we make the distinction between committing evil acts (as countless Germans did) and being evil (deliberately planning and carrying out evil acts), how many of them were ‘evil’?
Canadian Eh,
I find it interesting that parenting a child is one of the few instances in which positive feedback is good and negative feedback is bad. It makes me wonder about the parenting style of the courageous girl who this thread is about. (Nice segue, eh?)