A Montgomery County Middle School teacher had a 13-year-old girl escorted from the classroom after she refused to say the Pledge of Allegiance in clear violation of federal law.
Since 1943, it has been clear that children cannot be forced to say the pledge.
The school has apologized, but I am equally concerned about a position taken with the parents that has not been denounced by the school: that the school would refuse to meet with the parents if they brought an attorney. The family said that the school was adamant that, if a lawyer was present, they would not agree to a meeting. It is an outrageous policy designed to force people to forego legal counsel and I would like to know the legal and policy basis for such a rule.
For the full story, click here.
Gerty….
Seek out medical attention via, 911 if need be, before the snow starts to fly! As I stated above pancreatitis brings severe pain from the moment that it starts. I certainly have empathy for the family and believe this mans’ death was indeed tragic. He, however, chose to wait it out. I am guessing that such a severe storm would have been preceeded by warnings on tv and radio. Did the emergency services fail him in the end, yes they did, and Slarti is absolutely correct in stating his hopes that this type of error is learned from and provisions are in place should a storm of this magnitude hit the area again. At the end of the day, however, we need to all take primary responsibility for our health and seek medical attention immediately when in this kind of pain!
Believe me, I grew up in a very big east coast city, and I can tell you that telling the emergency operator that its a life or death situation is not going to move your call ahead in the cue.
“everyone’s important sir…..we’ll be there when we get there”.
“The only thing I can think of is to try and get the 9-1-1 operator to put them in touch with a doctor (who might possibly have been able to ascertain the seriousness of the situation and drawn attention to it – if everyone knew that it was a life-threatening situation, the would probably have behaved differently). Anyone else have an idea?” – Slartibartfast
I appreciate your coming at me with reason. I cannot tell you how refreshing that is. I was starting to wonder about this place.
As for your answer on them behaving differently had it been a life or death situation, I am assuming you’ve never lived in a large city. Otherwise you’d know that makes little difference to a dispatcher handling 2 dozen life or death emergencies with only 1 dozen emergency vehicles to roll.
Because I’d really like to know?
For example, I live in a rural area. There was many days were there was just no access to the hospital. Period. No roads cleared, nothing.
Had I taken ill and died, I can’t help but think about how my family might feel if they ever heard a bunch of lawyers sitting in a chat room lecturing my corpse on how I “should have been prepared”.
People can’t always help themselves.
That’s why COMPETENT government is essential to a functional society as large as ours.
Gerty said:
“WHAT exactly was she supposed to do?”
This is a good question. We don’t know what resources they had, but what would you do in that situation? (That question is intended for everyone, not just Gerty.)
The only thing I can think of is to try and get the 9-1-1 operator to put them in touch with a doctor (who might possibly have been able to ascertain the seriousness of the situation and drawn attention to it – if everyone knew that it was a life-threatening situation, the would probably have behaved differently). Anyone else have an idea?
Now please answer my question slarti.
If the guy couldn’t walk. And if the girl couldn’t carry a 50 year old Steelworker. And in the middle of the worst snow storm in our lifetimes, with the city ground to a halt, power out, very little moving on the road, most people still stuck in their homes and drives, … and no one they called would or could come to help them….WHAT exactly was she supposed to do?
Gerty,
“I think there are lessons to be learned here for both individuals and the government, what’s wrong with that? In both cases I believe that taking steps to prevent a similar tragedy gives meaning to this man’s death.” Slartibartfast
Nothing wrong with learning something.
Only it seems a reasonable person would save the individuals lesson until after the body was in the ground.
Byron,
That’s exactly the sort of thing I hope will happen.
Gerty,
I think there are lessons to be learned here for both individuals and the government, what’s wrong with that? In both cases I believe that taking steps to prevent a similar tragedy gives meaning to this man’s death.
C Eh,
This is starting to sound like a greek chorus, but I agree as well (with both you and Byron). The question in my mind is what do we (both collectively and as individuals) do to prevent a similar occurrence in the future.
And if you don’t have anything, then might I suggest you take my earlier advice and either demonstrate a little compassion for a guy who just died yesterday, or shut the hell up about it?
I mean if you really are the erudite individual you claim to be.
“I completely agree, however I also agree with Byron’s point. People do have the ultimate responsibility in their own health care.” – Canadian Eh
Well thank you Florence Nightengale, but once more.
If the guy couldn’t walk. And if the girl couldn’t carry a 50 year old Steelworker. And in the middle of the worst snow storm in our lifetimes, with the city ground to a halt, power out, very little moving on the road, most people still stuck in their homes and drives, … and no one they called would or could come to help them….WHAT exactly was she supposed to do?
Huh?
Please your highnessness….please by all means tell us from your vast clinical experience what exactly these poor people were supposed to do?
Slarti,
I completely agree, however I also agree with Byron’s point. People do have the ultimate responsibility in their own health care. It is unfortunate that this tragedy occured, however pancreatitis is extremely painful right from the get go, why this man would choose not to seek medical attention when pain medicine was not effective is beyond me. This happens daily however, and is the leading cause of death following a heart attack…denial!
“Gerty:
why are you so interested in other peoples mothers?” -Byron
Well when you learn to read your own split personalities comments there Sybil, you’ll see that it wasn’t me who brought up other peoples family members…..
wait for it….
Gerty:
Slarti is trying to help, do you read what other people write?
Ok I was just checkin in, I’m out c ya ta mar owe
Slarty:
I guess it would be pretty simple to implement. have a computer record calls and have a button the operator hits for a call back reminder. I imagine a program to do that would be rather simple to add to a digital recording system. It announces every 2 hours until canceled.
People should be capable of taking responsibility themselves in situations like this” – Slartibartfast
If the guy couldn’t walk, and his girl couldn’t carry a fifty year old steelworker, …. and no one they called would come, then how exactly was she supposed to do that again?
Earn a medical degree online in 4 hours and perform surgery?
Sometimes people can’t help themselves there Mother Teresa, and sometimes we as decent human beings just need to either show our compassion or shut the hell up.
Least until the bodies cold.
Slart the 9-11 thread is on the 120% thread
He probably was drunk, Ever burnt a hot dog on the grill? Thats probably what it looked like. Frost bite, all black.
Gerty:
why are you so interested in other peoples mothers?
Byron,
I think that the 9-1-1 system should keep track of calls until they are resolved. Admittedly, one tragic failure during an extreme situation is not an indictment of the whole system, but I believe that when we strive for perfection we achieve more than we would otherwise even though we never achieve it. The 9-1-1 system should determine if this was due to the system not working as it was supposed to or a flaw in the design of the system and in either case implement changes so that it wouldn’t happen again. People should be capable of taking responsibility themselves in situations like this, but I would rather that we never had to test it out. Also, if this is used as an opportunity to ensure that something similar doesn’t happen in the future, I believe that that gives some meaning to this man’s tragic death.