We have been following the steady decline of free speech in the West (here and here and here) and we have another interesting case on criminal charges for uttering prohibited thoughts. Germany has long made it a crime to deny the holocaust. Now, controversial British clergyman Richard Williamson has started a trial in Germany on Friday for his denial that the Nazis had systematically murdered millions of Jews.
Williamson, 70, was fined 12,000 euros (16,000 dollars) for comments made on a television interview during a 2008 visit to Germany. In the interview, he alleged that the Nazi gas chambers are a myth and “only 200,000 to 300,000 Jews” had been killed by the Nazis.
He caused a controversy for Pope Benedict XVI, who repealed his excommunication of Williamson.
There is no question that Germany has tried through this law to prevent the resurgence of Nazi propaganda and lies. However, the best way to fight fascism is to allow free speech, not to censor prohibited thoughts and utterances. In this case, Williamson says that he was assured that his interview would only run in Sweden, which allows free speech on the issue. Despite our personal revulsion with such accounts, it is important for civil libertarians to stand with free speech. This trial should not be over the historical fact but free speech. Williamson has a right to speak his mind as to his view of history while the rest of us have a right to denounce those views.
For the full story, click here
Tootie said:
“I need an editor.”
You need a voice in your head that says, ‘Maybe I shouldn’t post this ignorant propaganda…’
Tootie said:
“Bryon: Well, apparently, I have talked to Slart before.
It just wasn’t memorable.”
That’s probably because you’re only interested in spewing your scientifically illiterate propaganda which you have no interest in defending (or you are aware that it is indefensible). And, by the way, the argument that the ‘white race’ is the victim of a genocide would be laughable if it weren’t so pathetically sad.
I need an editor.
Oh and Byron, is this a brown supremacist web site? I don’t associate with supremacists.
Byron:
Jesus came from a tribe that had strict genetic cultivation lineage. Begat, begat, begat, and begat kept it all in order.
Abraham married a black woman.
I am not a racist, as you so slandered me. But I disapprove of genocide.
Unlike you.
Tootie:
I accidentally came across Stormfront once doing some checking on something. Apparently it is one of the better known WS sites.
Eventually we will, according to scientists, become one race of people and have a nice tanned complexion. So in a few hundred or a few thousand years we will look like Tiger Woods.
Come on don’t you want to look like Jesus?
Bryon: Well, apparently, I have talked to Slart before.
It just wasn’t memorable.
mespo:
Let me get this straight, there is something absurd that I should think that Gore Vidal, who just moments before the statement in question, INSANELY called a 13 year old GIRL a whore and has allegedly claimed in the past to have had 1000 sex partners before age 25 could not have done the same thing Polanski did right after Vidal said they all hung around together and did the same things?
Don’t have a hissy fit at me because of his foolish or senile statement.
Vidal plainly said:
“First, I was in the middle of all that. Back then, we all were.”
In the middle of all what? “What” refers directly back to the statement of the young hooker.
Now,if he has denied he was involved with 13 year olds, fine. I’m glad HE CLEARED UP HIS STATEMENT.
But I don’t see any clarification on the internet.
I googled:Gore Vidal denies having sex with 13 year old
Gore Vidal denies having sex with young hooker
Gore Vidal denies having sex with underage girls
Gore Vidal denies having sex with underage boys
Gore Vidal corrects comment about sexual assault of girl
And no where is there a place in which Vidal denies having sex with children as young as 13 as it appears he said in the interview. and no where (that I could find) is there an apology about calling a child a whore.
When I googled “Gore vidal apologizes for whore comment” I did find links to “Letterman apologizes”, and “Imus apologizes”.
Does they count?
“Why don’t you call Vidal and ask him if he’ll be more careful from now on.”
That is a quote from Bill Buckley who successfully sued Esquire Magazine because Vidal had, among other things, falsely suggested that Buckley was an anti-Semite.
So, maybe he isn’t getting senile.
Byron>>keeps up on the issues at Stormfront.
Social Security, Medicare>>all unconstitutional.
But I’m the illiterate person here.
LOL!
Genocide: A OKAY AT THE TURLEY WEBSITE! Geniuses agree!
Slart:
I don’t care if you read my posts and call me out, it’s just a sniveling and whining you do.
You wrote: “Sorry, but the bill that was passed was pretty much just a grab bag of Republican ideas..”
Like I care? I’m not a republican MAINLY because they are too leftist for my taste.
And you disagree with me because you are closed-minded.
Byron: If America isn’t a place or a people, who the heck are “we the people of these United States”? The Chinese?
I don’t even talk to Buddha and have never spoken to Slart until yesterday and it wasn’t about capitalism. So I don’t know what you are talking about.
White people are on the way out? Are you insane?
Tootie:
America is not a place or a people, it is the idea that man is a free, independent, autonomous, rational being capable of governing himself and engaging in “Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness”.
Don’t all people have a right to experience those virtues? But I do agree that everyone who comes here should learn English so they can better participate in our economic system.
I have a few South American friends who were hard core Marxists when they came here, as most of South America has strong elements of that philosophy, but after being here for a few years and learning what is possible they have graduated to an acceptance of capitalism if not an outright embrace and have left their Marxist views in the dust of their old countries.
Buddha, Mespo and Slarti are not against capitalism, they just think it should be regulated to some degree. They understand that without it you aren’t going to be able to provide for people. Personally I think it should be unregulated because markets are much more efficient and objective regulators than some faceless employee of the SEC in some basement office in DC reading computer printouts.
And as far as white people go we are on the way out and eventually humans will be an amalgamation of all races at some point in the future. What is wrong with that? Or do you equate race with Marxism and socialism? Tell that to the Indians and a good segment of the Chinese population. They embrace free markets. And are you so insecure as to think that the Declaration and it’s proclamation about the rights of man is going to disappear? That document is America, you cannot destroy an idea.
So grow the f. . . up and read something beside the Stormfront website.
Mespo,
That’s quite a list.
Tootie posted:
tootie:
As I suspected you followed the conservative’s playbook to the letter by engaging in more than a little intellectual dishonesty concerning Gore Vidal. Vidal did not say — nor even suggest — that his phrase “middle of all that” referred to sexual relations with children. He was referring to the metamorphosis that the Polansky story has undergone over time, and the rampant anti-Semitism which he experienced and which he believes (wrongly, in my view) is powering the Polansky prosecution. Anyone can read it for themselves here:
http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2009/10/a-conversation-with-gore-vidal/7767/
We can take your foolish ideas on things, but outright lies and deception should compel some shame on your part. But that wouldn’t be your style … being a conservative neo-con and all. Obviously, the holy ends you seek, justifies your duplicitous means.
tootie:
“mespo: you are confused. Someone who pulls their pants down in private with a child is by definition not a conservative.”
****************
Funny, all the people I cited spouted the exact same conservative talking points you do, and advocated the same conservative positions (no pun intended) in public. Apparently, one cannot know a “true conservative” until we check out his police blotter. I do enjoy counting your logical fallacies, but must you always resort to the “one true Scotsman” fallacy upon every refutation? It’s getting a tad stale.
forgot the link:
http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2009/10/a-conversation-with-gore-vidal/7767/#at
mespo: you are confused. Someone who pulls their pants down in private with a child is by definition not a conservative. Which is my point. If I’m white and call myself a black girl, does that make me black? Well, maybe if I was Bill Clinton. You wasted a bunch of space telling me about liberals who call themselves conservatives.
I had to laugh how people ignored the more revealing and scandalous comments by Gore Vidal when he gave an interview after Roman Polanski was recently arrested. The part in question went like this:
Question:
“So what’s your take on Polanski, this many years later?”
Vidal answers:
“I really don’t give a fuck. Look, am I going to sit and weep every time a young hooker feels as though she’s been taken advantage of?”
Now, a LOT of people though that business about the little girl being a hooker really was nuts. But I thought the next part was even crazier.
Vidal says:
“First, I was in the middle of all that. Back then, we all were. Everybody knew everybody else. There was a totally different story at the time that doesn’t resemble anything that we’re now being told.”
In the middle of all what? Sex with children? What did they do, trade them around?
Sheesh.
Byron:
Your description of genocide is not in line with the LEGAL description according to International Law. I provide a link below.
If you read the text closely, it says that genocide doesn’t have to be a “rounding up citizens” as you say, and a slaughtering them (though it can be and often is).
Genocide, according to International Law, also includes destroying a culture or religion, for example. And it can include things like forcing a larger and different population on a smaller weaker one or even thwarting the victims’ ability to produce offspring. None of these are necessarily a rounding up with violence, but all serve to intentionally reduce one population or culture over another.
Tibet is a good example of how this is working today outside the USA. The Chinese are flooding the little place with Chinese “nationals” (or whatever they are called). A unique people will be lost.
Anyway, one proof to knowing if genocide is occurring is that those conducting it MUST know that they are doing it. It is the guilty mind aspect of the law. And I do believe that the congressional committee on immigration and naturalization absolutely KNOWS our policies are reducing whites (and protestants) in America because they have all the data before them and can see it is happening better than any of us. Yet they still they continue to advocate the policies that allow this reduction from nearly 90 percent to almost less than 50 percent. Just this year births of non-whites outstripped birth of whites. In order words, government is promoting it and thus has the requisite guilty mind (even if they don’t call it genocide).
One of the cherished aspects of the UN and International Law is that a people, any people, have the right as a people, nation, country, or civilization, to self-determination. When the American people were last inquired of regarding this self-determination in relation to who they would become as a nation, a heritage, and a posterity, they were promised by government officials that the 1965 Immigration Act would NOT change the ethic makeup of the American people. This understanding between the people and government was never revised.
No one in their right mind can believe this promise has been honored in regard to immigration policy in general.
This trust has been utterly broken, the promised ignored, and a catastrophic upheaval of civilization, races, culture, and religion has occurred against the expressed promises of our leaders and in violation of the right of the American people to self-determination.
It is important to know that the legal definition of genocide even applies to a partial elimination of a population, race, religious or ethnic group. And so this has actually and factually already happened through our immigration policy. Genocide has already, according to International Law, been accomplished.
Our immigration policy IS therefore a policy of genocide as our leaders and those in charge of immigration know it is intentionally changing the racial and religious makeup of this country.
There is no example in recorded history, that I know of, where the people of a major civilization eliminated themselves and replaced its own people with another population. The only time such large scale transfer occurs is with war, invasion, or some other natural catastrophe such as disease or disaster.
This all begs the question of why would government do this.
I believe that the US government is intentionally committing this genocide on the America people for several reasons. In the beginning, I believe it started merely because of liberal racial guilt. Other laws were added and immigration from western Caucasian countries who shared similar values to Americans was closed while the door to nonwhites who did not share our values, traditions, and customs was opened.
And now I believe government promotes this unbalanced and monopolistic system favoring third world foreign hostiles who have little if anything in common with us as a means of destroying all political opposition to the Democratic Party. Any republican participation in this (by Bush and McCain for example) was and is merely a result of their own stupidity and lack of concern for the welfare of the nation or their party.
This elimination of political opposition is one reason why democrats will fight tooth and nail for amnesty. Once that happens (and they bribe the new citizens with handouts), the Democratic Party will be unstoppable for the foreseeable future with millions and millions of new voters beholden to the bribery. And they know it.
This is a new form of genocide hitherto unknown on such a large scale.
The government is now using immigration as a convenient means of replacing a more educated population of European descendants with a less educated population of people uninterested in our heritage, uninterested in the life of the mind, accustomed to and primed for Marxism and global governance.
This global governance is stated goal of the Council On Foreign Relations* whose members include Joseph Biden, Bill Clinton, John McCain and many other powerful members of government who promote the genocide through immigration policy. So the genocide of WASPs dove-tails nicely with political overthrow by CFR members and the elimination of the nation-state which is a necessity for world governance.
Americans of European descent (except for leftists) are more difficult to herd into the CFR’s scheme mainly because they have more loyalty than those immigrants who have fled their nearby countries to come here for making money. They do not come here anymore to become Americans devoted to its customs and traditions. This is evidenced in the many alternative cultural media used by the Hispanics to separate themselves from the culture. Once language separates a people, it is next to impossible to unite them. Ask the French Canadians who have several times tried to break off from English speaking Cananda.
It is in the interest of those wishing to eliminate the nation state to weaken all opposition, and Americans of European dissent are the targets. Therefore the genocide continues. I hope this explains things a little better.
http://www.preventgenocide.org/genocide/officialtext.htm
*
http://www.cfr.org/project/1369/international_institutions_and_global_governance.html
tootie:
“There is only one really unique feature of American liberalism: the belief that people have the right to pull down their pants in public via film and print media. Outside of that, everything else liberals stand for is OLD FASHIONED and retrograde: homosexuality (Sodom and Gomorrah), Theft by the state (Marxism), and elimination of white folks from America (genocide–again, an old fashioned idea).
Apparently, to a leftist/lib/progressive, it is fine to MAKE America brown, but evil to keep her white. And this in relation to one of the smallest racial groups in the world: white folks, a minority group worldwide.”
*********************
I see the distinction now. Conservatives prefer to pull their pants down in private — and usually with minors present. Here’s the Hall of Fame Family Values folks from your side of the aisle:
Nicholas Elizondo, Director of the Young Republican Federation molested his 6-year old daughter and was sentenced to six years in prison.
Larry Dale Floyd, Republican Constable in Denton County, Texas Precinct Two. Arrested for allegedly crossing state lines to have sex with an 8-year old child and was charged with 7 related offenses.
Jon Grunseth, Republican businessman and candidate for Minnesota governor, withdrew his candidacy after allegations surfaced that he went swimming in the nude with four underage girls, including his daughter, and tried to grope one. “I’ve made some mistakes” he said.
Neal Horsley has called for the arrest of all homosexuals. Admitted on the Fox News Radio’s The Alan Colmes Show, that he’s had sex… with mules.
Paul Ingram, Republican Party leader of Thurston County, Washington, pleaded guilty to six counts of raping his daughters and served 14 years in federal prison.
John Scmitz, right-wing republican congressman, who had had his committee chairship taken away from him in the California State Senate after issuing a press release attacking Jews, feminists and gays. Forced out of office in 1982 for having an adulterous affair and fathering two children out of wedlock with one of his students. He was caught because his baby was admitted to hospital for having hair tied so tightly around his penis that it was almost severed. His daughter, Mary Kay LeTourneau, was convicted of having an adulterous affair with one of her students, and giving birth to two of his children.
Republican Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld authorized the rape of children in Iraqi prisons in order to humiliate their parents into providing information about the anti-American insurgency.
Republican legislator Ted Klaudt was charged with raping
girls under the age of 16.
Republican city councilman Joseph Monteleone Jr. was found guilty of fondling underage girls.
Republican congressional aide Jeffrey Nielsen was arrested for having sex with a 14-year old boy.
Republican County Commissioner Patrick Lee McGuire surrendered to police after allegedly molesting girls between the ages of 8 and 13.
Republican prosecutor Larry Corrigan was arrested for soliciting sex from 13-year old girls.
Republican Mayor Jeffrey Kyle Randall was sentenced to 275 days in jail for molesting two boys — ages ten and 12 — during a six-year period.
Republican County Board Candidate Brent Schepp was charged with molesting a 14-year old girl and killed himself three days later.
Republican Congressman Mark Foley abruptly resigned from Congress after “sexually explicit” emails surfaced showing him flirting with a 16-year old boy.
Republican executive Randall Casseday of the conservative Washington Times newspaper pleaded guilty to soliciting sex from a 13-year old girl on the internet.
Republican chairman of the Oregon Christian Coalition Lou Beres confessed to molesting a 13-year old girl.
Republican County Constable Larry Dale Floyd pleaded guilty to charges of soliciting sex from an 8-year old girl. Floyd has repeatedly won elections for Denton County, Texas, constable.
Republican judge Mark Pazuhanich pleaded no contest to fondling a 10-year old girl and was sentenced to 10 years probation.
Republican Party leader Bobby Stumbo was arrested for having sex with a 5-year old boy.
Republican petition drive manager Tom Randall pleaded guilty to molesting two girls under the age of 14, one of them the daughter of an associate in the petition business.
Republican County Chairman Armando Tebano pleaded guilty to fondling a 14-year-old girl.
Republican teacher and former city councilman John Collins pleaded guilty to sexually molesting 13 and 14 year old girls.
Republican campaign worker Mark Seidensticker is a convicted child molester.
Republican Mayor Philip Giordano is serving a 37-year sentence in federal prison for sexually abusing 8- and 10-year old girls.
Republican Mayor Tom Adams was arrested for distributing child pornography over the internet.
Republican Mayor John Gosek was arrested on charges of soliciting sex from two 15-year old girls.
Republican County Commissioner David Swartz pleaded guilty to molesting two girls under the age of 11 and was sentenced to 8 years in prison.
Republican legislator Edison Misla Aldarondo was sentenced to 10 years in prison for raping his daughter between the ages of 9 and 17.
Republican Committeeman John R. Curtain was charged with molesting a teenage boy and unlawful sexual contact with a minor.
Republican anti-abortion activist Howard Scott Heldreth is a convicted child rapist in Florida.
Republican zoning supervisor, Boy Scout leader and Lutheran church president Dennis L. Rader pleaded guilty to performing a sexual act on an 11-year old girl he murdered.
Republican anti-abortion activist Nicholas Morency pleaded guilty to possessing child pornography on his computer and offering a bounty to anybody who murders an abortion doctor.
Republican campaign consultant Tom Shortridge was sentenced to three years probation for taking nude photographs of a 15-year old girl.
Republican racist pedophile and United States Senator Strom Thurmond had sex with a 15-year old black girl which produced a child. (Thurmond was a Democrat at the time… a throwback to the old racist “dixiecrats.” The racist arm of the Democratic party left during the civil rights movement when they realized the GOP was more in line with their beliefs.)
Republican pastor Mike Hintz, whom George W. Bush commended during the 2004 presidential campaign, surrendered to police after admitting to a sexual affair with a female juvenile.
Republican legislator Peter Dibble pleaded no contest to having an inappropriate relationship with a 13-year-old girl.
Republican advertising consultant Carey Lee Cramer was sentenced to six years in prison for molesting two 8-year old girls, one of whom appeared in an anti-Gore television commercial.
Republican fundraiser Lawrence E. King, Jr. organized child sex parties at the White House during the 1980s.
Republican lobbyist Craig J. Spence organized child sex parties at the White House during the 1980s.
Republican Congressman Donald “Buz” Lukens was found guilty of having sex with a female minor and sentenced to one month in jail.
Republican fundraiser and Bush pioneer, Richard A. Delgaudio was found guilty of child porn charges and paying two teenage girls to pose for sexual photos.
Republican activist Mark A. Grethen convicted on six counts of sex crimes involving children.
Republican campaign chairman Randal David Ankeney pleaded guilty to attempted sexual assault on a child and was arrested again five years later on the same charge.
Republican Congressman Dan Crane had sex with a female minor working as a congressional page.
Republican activist and Christian Coalition leader Beverly Russell admitted to an incestuous relationship with his step daughter.
Republican Judge Ronald C. Kline pleaded guilty to possession of child pornography on his home computer.
Republican congressman and anti-gay activist Robert Bauman was charged with having sex with a 16-year-old boy he picked up at a gay bar.
Republican Committee Chairman Jeffrey Patti was arrested for distributing what experts call “some of the most offensive material in the child pornography world” – a video clip of a 5-year-old girl being raped.
Republican activist Marty Glickman (a.k.a. “Republican Marty”), was taken into custody by Florida police on four counts of unlawful sexual activity with an underage girl and one count of delivering the drug LSD.
Republican legislative aide Howard L. Brooks was charged with molesting a 12-year old boy and possession of child pornography.
Republican Senate candidate John Hathaway was accused of having sex with his 12-year old baby sitter and withdrew his candidacy after the allegations were reported in the media.
Republican preacher Stephen White, who demanded a return to traditional values, was sentenced prison after offering $20 to a 14-year-old boy for permission to perform oral sex on him.
Republican talk show host Jon Matthews pleaded guilty to exposing his genitals to an 11 year old girl.
Republican anti-gay activist Earl “Butch” Kimmerling was sentenced to 40 years in prison for molesting an 8-year old girl after he attempted to stop a gay couple from adopting her.
Republican Party leader Paul Ingram pleaded guilty to six counts of raping his daughters and served 14 years in federal prison.
Republican election board official Kevin Coan was sentenced to two years probation for soliciting sex over the internet from a 14-year old girl.
Republican politician Andrew Buhr was charged with two counts of first degree sodomy with a 13-year old boy.
Republican legislator Keith Westmoreland was arrested on seven felony counts of lewd and lascivious exhibition to girls under the age of 16 (i.e. exposing himself to children).
Republican anti-abortion activist John Allen Burt was found guilty of molesting a 15-year old girl.
Republican County Councilman Keola Childs pleaded guilty to molesting a male child.
Republican activist John Butler was charged with criminal sexual assault on a teenage girl.
Republican candidate Richard Gardner admitted to molesting his two daughters.
Republican Councilman and former Marine Jack W. Gardner was convicted of molesting a 13-year old girl.
Republican County Commissioner Merrill Robert Barter pleaded guilty to unlawful sexual contact and assault on a teenage boy.
Republican City Councilman Fred C. Smeltzer, Jr. pleaded no contest to raping a 15 year-old girl and served 6-months in prison.
Republican activist Parker J. Bena pleaded guilty to possession of child pornography on his home computer and was sentenced to 30 months in federal prison and fined $18,000.
Republican parole board officer and former Colorado state representative, Larry Jack Schwarz, was fired after child pornography was found in his possession.
Republican strategist and Citadel Military College graduate Robin Vanderwall was convicted in Virginia on five counts of soliciting sex from boys and girls over the internet.
Republican city councilman Mark Harris, who is described as a “good military man” and “church goer,” was convicted of repeatedly having sex with an 11-year-old girl and sentenced to 12 years in prison.
Republican businessman Jon Grunseth withdrew his candidacy for Minnesota governor after allegations surfaced that he went swimming in the nude with four underage girls, including his daughter.
Republican campaign worker, police officer and self-proclaimed reverend Steve Aiken was convicted of having sex with two underage girls.
Republican director of the “Young Republican Federation” Nicholas Elizondo molested his 6-year old daughter and was sentenced to six years in prison.
Republican president of the New York City Housing Development Corp. Russell Harding pleaded guilty to possessing child pornography on his computer.
Republican benefactor of conservative Christian groups, Richard A. Dasen Sr., was found guilty of raping a 15-year old girl. Dasen, 62, who is married with grown children and several grandchildren, has allegedly told police that over the past decade he paid more than $1 million to have sex with a large number of young women.
That said, tootie, I don’t think you’re a sexual deviate like your leadership. No, you tootie, you represent old fashioned America … old fashioned racist America. “Make America brown,” indeed.