D.C. Democratic Delegate Eleanor Holmes Norton made a shocking comment about Associate Justice Clarence Thomas this week, stating that ” We’ve got someone who proposes to be African-American on the court.” It is a shocking insult directed at Thomas and it is unworthy of Norton. It also seems to suggest that someone cannot be a true African-American if they are conservative.
The comment came in response to a question on whether President Obama would select a black nominee to replace Justice Stevens. Norton reportedly responded “We’re not sure this president is ever going to nominate another African-American to the court. [Barack Obama]’s African-American. We’ve got someone who proposes to be African-American on the court.”
One can only imagine the response if a white member said about Stevens that “we got someone who proposes to be white on the court.” There is no question that Thomas is a lightning rod for liberals, but this comment should be roundly condemned by liberals and immediately retracted by Norton. One can certainly disagree with Thomas’ writing, as I do, while preserving civility and, yes, respect in the debate. Thomas is a person with an amazing personal story. Clarence Thomas was raised in Pin Point, Georgia — a poor black town without a sewage system or paved roads. His father was a farm worker and his mother was a domestic worker who spoke Gullah as a first language. While liberals were quick to celebrate the life of Justice Sotomayor for growing up in the projects and achieving so much in her life, they appear unwilling to credit Thomas with his own amazing and difficult life, including being left homeless as a child.
It is particularly disappointing from a former Georgetown law professor. I have great respect for Delegate Norton, though we were on different sides in the D.C. Vote controversy. However, this is only the latest personal attack on Thomas that is entirely out of line.
For the story, click here
I’m with Slartibartfast on that one.
Good point Slarti and you are probably right. Presidents don’t act in isolation and are controlled by forces we can only guess as to their nature.
On the subject of Jefferson and slavery, I would just like to point out that it is unclear if he COULD have done more. There’s no reason to suspect that the president trying to end slavery would have been any less divisive to our nation in Jefferson’s time than it turned out to be four score and seven years after its founding. It seems entirely possible that President Jefferson pushing too hard against slavery could have resulted in the splitting or dissolution of the United States.
Jimbo,
Then why did you assert Jefferson’s as being one of the worst Presidents as fact then?
I never asserted he was the best President as fact although that he is one of the best is my opinion.
I asserted you were in the distinct minority in your opinion compared to experts across time and gave evidence in Jefferson’s own words to contradict your unfounded assertion on his notions about slavery. Mespo disabused some of your other statements.
But now that “fact” you asserted earlier, it’s just your “opinion”.
Uh huh. Waffles? Anyone? They smell like maple syrup over Manhattan!
You’re cute when you get in a huff, Jimmy. Contradict yourself much? (Completely rhetorical.) Illogical as all get out but cute in that kinda zany sit-com uncle that’s the butt of all the jokes kinda way. The one who’s on every sitcom that lasts only one season. Whatzhizname? Whosehewhathis? The analogy is apt in so many ways.
Now seriously. Get a better routine.
James:
what did you write a book about? Was it early American history?
What do you think of Paul Johnsons’ History of the American People?
Buddha:
Sorry again! All you have done is offer opinions. Let’s face it, no one with absolute certainty can state who or who has not been a good president without it being an opinion. As far as Jeffersonian policies, I stated only that which is true. Ending the Atlantic slave trade isn’t the same as tackling the issue head-on. Jefferson didn’t even try to push through a bill abolishing slavery even though many of his friends were primarily responsible for giving constitutional grounds to do so. The military under Jefferson was better than under Adams and yet he could do nothing to stop the impressment of American sailors. Adams didn’t have a Louisiana Purchase to hide behind and that is precisely why Jefferson could have been a one term president. These are facts that are not disputable. Formulating an opinion based on those facts led me to the conclusion that Jefferson was “bad” president. Quite honestly, modern day liberals would have objected vehemently against war with either England or France. Madison, thank God, did what was necessary and led America into the Era of Good Feelings.
roflmao
Really, Jimboletta?
Care to post your real name and credentials or otherwise demonstrate you are either an expert historian or lawyer by a display of knowledge on par with actual experts on history? Because there are experts here. With demonstrated skills.
Because so far you haven’t done much but ride your opine. You’ve offered your opinion – as fact. That’s a logical fallacy known as appealing to your own authority. Authority you cannot prove through skill or demonstration and since your authority is unverified or demonstrated behind your lil’ nom de guerre that you think no one can challenge it.
I’ve offered evidence.
I’ve offered the opinion of multiple experts in multiple surveys spread across 50 years, all verifiable, all using their real names. Which counters your appeal to your own authority, which is non-existent and unverifiable. Nor have I relied upon their expertise alone but also showed that by a huge statistical preponderance your assertion Jefferson was a bad President to be a minority view at best and nonsense at worst (and in actuality is).
But I have not relied upon my own authority although I actually have some (and have demonstrated it here enough times your belief is not required). Because that’s a good way to get laughed at in a room full of critical thinkers. It is mere happy coincidence that in my opinion happens to be that of the majority of historians and lawyers surveyed.
In addition I offered direct evidence refuting your assertions about Jefferson on slavery in his own words. By the standards of evidence there is nothing better than direct testimony/evidence.
You have offered . . . nothing. But your opinion.
And your non-existent unverifiable and undemonstrative estimation of your own un-demonstrated expertise.
Speaking of expertise in arguing, mespo is a demonstrated expert. While I won’t appeal to his authority, I’ll second his opinion that you are nothing more than an irrational distraction.
Call back when you have an opposable thumbs.
No. Better yet.
Don’t call us, we’ll call you.
[youtube=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i4njPe2_rho&hl=en_US&fs=1&]
Buddha:
Sorry but the experts are only giving their opinion just as I am giving mine. By the way I am an “expert” in History and you do not need to know my credintials but I will tell you that I already have one book published. You on the other hand are still looking for that “suit.”
“Jefferson railed”
De-caf in the morning. She is a harsh mistress in the evening.
James,
No. What I addressed were all the facts, namely the one that you cannot distinguish that your layman’s “fact” that Jefferson was in “fact” one of our worst Presidents is an opinion and a wrong opinion in the eyes of experts for the past 50 years. Unlike the fact that Jefferson wanted to railed against slavery in the draft of Declaration of Independence but was forced to comprise to keep Georgia and South Carolina in the newly formed union to maintain a unified front against the crown. His deleted language read:
“he [the king of Britain] has waged cruel war against human nature itself, violating it’s most sacred rights of life & liberty in the persons of a distant people who never offended him, captivating & carrying them into slavery in another hemisphere, or to incur miserable death in their transportation thither. this piratical warfare, the opprobrium of infidel powers, is the warfare of the CHRISTIAN king of Great Britain. determined to keep open a market where MEN should be bought & sold, he has prostituted his negative for suppressing every legislative attempt to prohibit or to restrain this execrable commerce: and that this assemblage of horrors might want no fact of distinguished die, he is now exciting those very people to rise in arms among us, and to purchase that liberty of which he has deprived them, by murdering the people upon whom he also obtruded them; thus paying off former crimes committed against the liberties of one people, with crimes which he urges them to commit against the lives of another.” – Papers of Thomas Jefferson, ed. Julian P. Boyd (Princeton: Princeton University Press, 1950)
Jefferson attacked the institution of slavery elsewhere too. “There must doubtless be an unhappy influence on the manners of our people produced by the existence of slavery among us. The whole commerce between master and slave is a perpetual exercise of the most boisterous passions, the most unremitting despotism on the one part, and degrading submissions on the other.” – Notes on the State of Virginia (1784)
You should probably stop your family from continuing with the same breeding plan used by the Pharaohs. I mean since we’re making life advice suggestions, Jimbo-Tep. There’s no lifeguard on duty in gene pool.
And an F for grammar. But since I’m grading on a curve, you get a G.
James:
The very first thing I learned in freshman poly sci was the difference between facts and opinions,and the second thing I mastered was distinguishing honest argument from irrational distraction.
Whether luck was involved or not (it usually is), Jefferson acquired Louisiana from France. The Act of 1807 ended the legal trans-Atlantic slave trade. That Jefferson could have done more about slavery is obvious, much like Jerry Lewis could have raised money for every conceivable charity instead of just the Muscular Dystrophy Association. Like Jefferson, that he didn’t do everything does not mean that he didn’t do anything.
Calling unlettered opinions facts won’t make them so, and positing unconvincing argumentation in the hopes of persuading others won’t make that so either.
MESPO:
Jefferson acquired Louisiana out of luck. His economic policy stunk. His slave trade policy didn’t do anything to stop the spread of slavery. In 1807 he could have pushed to end slavery all together (3/5 compromise 1787)but chose not to. These are the facts.
Buddha:
You amaze me. You didn’t address any of the facts. You only cite scholars. I you need a suit let me know. McDonalds can always use a good manager.
James:
“I noticed you didn’t address any of the facts I gave regarding why Jefferson was not a good president. FIRST, HE COULDN’T FIX THE IMPRESSMENT ISSUE. SECOND, HIS EMBARGO WAS A DISASTER. HIS MISFORTUNE WAS ONLY OVERLOOKED BY THE LOUISIANA PURCHASE WHICH HE REALLY DIDN’T HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH SONCE NAPOLEON OFFERED IT WITHOUT OUR REQUEST. WE ONLY REQUESTED NEW ORLEANS. WHEN ADDRESSING ME PLEASE ACKNOWLEDGE THESE FACTS. ALSO, YOU DON’T GIVE A NUMBER ON THE SCHOLARS BUT DO ACKNOWLEDGE SURVEYS AS BEING PLURAL.”
**************************
If Jefferson had done nothing more during his term of office than purchasing the Louisiana Territory from the French in 1803, and signing the Act Prohibiting Importation of Slaves of 1807 (effectively ending the legal trans-Atlantic slave trade), he ought to be remembered as a great US President. That he did this and so much more — and not all of it perfectly — means only that he was both great and human.
Buddha,
You damn your cats with faint praise.
Now run along, Jimbo. Go hide under Rush’s skirt and whimper.
Or come back out and I’ll make you look like a fool again.
Because I simply think it’s funny that you’re so __________.
I’ll leave that blank for the readers to fill in.
James,
I addressed that what you state is your incorrect opinion. Wrong opinion according to many scholars using many brains and multiple surveys with multiple criteria and they all disagree with you. Are you smarter than 50 years of academic study by professional historians and lawyers? Your inability to properly use a caps lock key indicates you’re probably not let out of the house without a handler.
Insult me all you want, nitwit. I have suits smarter than you. Not to mention cats. What you think of me means less than nothing. I don’t derive my self-image from the ramblings of all-caps lunatics.
And I’ll also address you however I damn well please. It’s called freedom of speech. You act like a jerkwad teabagger without any facts or education and I’ll treat you like one. And your “facts” are still just opinions.
fact\ˈfakt\, n.
1 : a thing done: as a obsolete : feat b : crime 9accessory after the fact0 c archaic : action
2 archaic : performance, doing
3 : the quality of being actual : actuality (a question of fact hinges on evidence)
4 a : something that has actual existence (space exploration is now a fact) b : an actual occurrence (prove the fact of damage)
5 : a piece of information presented as having objective reality
opin·ion \ə-ˈpin-yən\, n.
1 a : a view, judgment, or appraisal formed in the mind about a particular matter b : approval, esteem
2 a : belief stronger than impression and less strong than positive knowledge b : a generally held view
3 a : a formal expression of judgment or advice by an expert b : the formal expression (as by a judge, court, or referee) of the legal reasons and principles upon which a legal decision is based
Since you’re obviously not an expert and the cadre of scholars in the surveys I pointed you are ARE EXPERTS, you’re opinion is definition 2 a : belief stronger than impression and less strong than positive knowledge.
It is not fact nor expert opinion (2b) because the surveys I pointed you to show the generally held views of (3a) the formal expressions of judgment or advice by multiple experts based on their study of (3b) the legal reasons and principles upon which a legal (or historical) decision is based.
You can’t deal with the fact that, oh, just about everyone in the entire academic and legal world disagrees with you about Jefferson being one of our greatest Presidents?
I can’t wait until you find out there is no Santa.
BUDDHA,
I noticed you didn’t address any of the facts I gave regarding why Jefferson was not a good president. FIRST, HE COULDN’T FIX THE IMPRESSMENT ISSUE. SECOND, HIS EMBARGO WAS A DISASTER. HIS MISFORTUNE WAS ONLY OVERLOOKED BY THE LOUISIANA PURCHASE WHICH HE REALLY DIDN’T HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH SONCE NAPOLEON OFFERED IT WITHOUT OUR REQUEST. WE ONLY REQUESTED NEW ORLEANS. WHEN ADDRESSING ME PLEASE ACKNOWLEDGE THESE FACTS. ALSO, YOU DON’T GIVE A NUMBER ON THE SCHOLARS BUT DO ACKNOWLEDGE SURVEYS AS BEING PLURAL. YOUR INTELLIGENT LANGUAGE IS SIMPLY THAT. YOU ARE A “SUIT” WITH NO BUSINESS!!!
James,
You stating Jefferson wasn’t a good president isn’t a fact. It’s your opinion. A wrong one at that. That’s what the surveys (note the plural) say.
Scholars, you know, people who DON’T get their opinions spoon fed to them by a hypocritical Oxy addict like Rush Limpbaugh but rely on historical fact and critical analysis?
Jefferson consistently ranks near the top of the list of best Presidents with scholars and has since 1948.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_rankings_of_United_States_Presidents
vlf2112
If a bank said you could buy a private jet and you only earned $10,000 a year, Would you buy the jet?
People know what they can afford but buy anyway. When they get too far into debt, they blame everybody else but themselves.
vlf2112
I don’t need a bank or anyone else to tell me what I can afford. You are wrong. Also, your statement proves banks are necessary. And yes, if a person doesn’t know what he can afford, then he is an idiot.