After Israel released a tape purportedly showing passengers on the Mavi Marmara making inflammatory comments, many questioned the authenticity of the tapes and charged that they had been edited. Leaders on the ship said that they never radioed the IDF to tell them “Go back to Auschwitz” and that they are “helping Arabs go against the U.S., don’t forget 9/11.” Now, the IDF has issued an unedited tape and admitted that the earlier version was edited. It also admits that it is not clear that these comments came from the Mavi Marmara.
Here is part of the original tape released by the IDF that was widely distributed over blogs and news channels:
Here is the unedited tape:
The IDF insists that it was merely trying to edit out long periods of silence, but now admits that due to “an open channel, the specific ship or ships in the Freedom Flotilla responding to the Israeli Navy could not be identified.”
Activists have objected that the IDF seized their own recording equipment that would have shown such editing as well as how they responded from the Mavi Marmara.
For the full story, click here.
Blouise points directly to something I have said before and I’ll say again because it’s true: Having statehood comes with both risks and responsibilities. If you brutalize your neighbors? Don’t be shocked when they want to kill you.
Just like Americans shouldn’t be surprised when other countries, including allies, no longer take us seriously when our government operates like industry’s amoral greed driven lap dog and we let clear criminal actions by the former (and now current) President and Vice President go unpunished.
One has a right to justice and a responsibility to ensure justice for others. That’s the Golden Rule. It’s also known by another name: the ethic of reciprocity. The positive phrasing of the principle is “do to others what you would like to be done to you”. The negative phrasing of the principle is “do not do to others what you would not like to be done to you”.
Act like a jackass, get treated like a jackass. Act like a good guy, get treated like a good guy.
It’s not that complicated to understand.
wilbit
” … Jews didn’t have to fight anyone to claim their new sovereign territory in the Holy Land: it was handed to them on a silver platter by the international community. …”
===============================================================
1. On May 14, 1948, Israel proclaimed itself a sovereign state. The First Arab-Israeli War began one day later when Egyptian troops attacked.
2. On October 29, 1956, the second Arab-Israeli War (also referred to as “The Suez War”) broke out. Israel, with its allies France and Britain, initiated hostilities on October 29 by invading Gaza and the Sinai and then moved into the Suez Canal zone on October 30.
3. On June 5, 1967 (Six-Day War.), Israel launched a massive air assault that crippled Arab air capability. With air superiority protecting its ground forces, Israel controlled the Sinai peninsula within three days and then concentrated on the Jordanian frontier, capturing Jerusalem’s Old City (subsequently annexed), and on the Syrian border, gaining the strategic Golan Heights.
4. On Oct. 6, 1973 (Yom Kippur War), Egypt launched a two-pronged assault on Israel. Egyptian forces struck eastward across the Suez Canal and pushed the Israelis back, while the Syrians advanced from the north. Iraqi forces joined the war and, in addition, Syria received some support from Jordan, Libya, and the smaller Arab states. The attacks caught Israel off guard, and it was several days before the country was fully mobilized; Israel then forced the Syrians and Egyptians back and, in the last hours of the war, established a salient on the west bank of the Suez Canal.
5. In 1982 Israel launched a massive attack to destroy all military bases of the Palestine Liberation Organization in S Lebanon and, after a 10-week siege of the Muslim sector of West Beirut, a PLO stronghold, forced the Palestinians to accept a U.S.-sponsored plan whereby the PLO guerrillas would evacuate Beirut and go to several Arab countries that had agreed to accept them.
Some silver platter!
willbt,
Definition is important as is context.
If you’d chosen the word “Israeli”, it would be clear your statement was about the government of Israel.
As you worded it? It sounded like anti-Semitic horseshit.
Precision in language is important.
Get some.
Iran’s elite Revolutionary Guards are ready to provide a military escort to cargo ships trying to break Israel’s blockade of Gaza, a representative of Supreme Leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei said on Sunday.
“Iran’s navy forces are ready to escort the peace flotilla to Gaza with all their powers and capabilities,” Ali Shirazi, Khamenei’s representative inside the Revolutionary Guards, was quoted as saying by the semi-official Mehr news agency.
Any intervention by the Iranian military would be considered highly provocative by Israel which accuses Iran of supplying weapons to Hamas, the Islamist movement which rules Gaza.
The Guards, with their own navy, air force and command structure separate from the regular armed forces, are seen as fiercely loyal to the values of the Islamic Republic.
“If the Supreme Leader issues an order for this then the Revolutionary Guard naval forces will do their best to secure the ships,” Shirazi said. “It is Iran’s duty to defend the innocent people of Gaza.”
http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/LDE655077.htm
-James M.
…not sure if this is allowed here (moderator?)
…_Your_ name used to be_my_ name [I think!]. Difficult to clarify here. Would you care to contact me at : kathouse@shaw.ca. ? It’s The Name Game.
First of all UNSC has been a quiet joke that is becoming louder and more well known. They appear to go with whoever has the biggest and loudest mouth of the day. In this case the terrorist organizations and those who support them.
Second of all it has been proven time and time again that the so called Goldsmith report is so biased it is not even funny. This so called report should not even be brought up.
Third of all what do people do not understand about the word “blockade”! Whether it is Israel’s blockade on gaza or the U.S blockade on cuba. The word means the same thing. There is a reason why these blockades are implemented.
The so called “peace flotilla” I thought was supposed to be just that at the beginning. Until I read an article after the incident occurred that was quoting one of the main organizers of the flotilla that this had nothing to do with a “humanitarion mission” but to simply break the blockade on gaza. I was shocked and appalled that certain organizations would put peoples lives at stake for political gain. Israel warned these people on the ships as to the consequences of their attempts and they refused to listen. As sad as it is they decided to pay the ultimate sacrifice for their own political gain. To me they are not martyrs but uneducated people that decided to get involved with people and organizations (hamas and hezbollah and other yoyos) that are well known in the use of human shields for the own political gain.
I was speaking to a muslim friend of mine the other day and he attempted to defend turkey and the organizations as well as hamas and hezbolah. I simply let him know that it is turkey and the other countries that unoficially sponsored these ships by allowing the ships to leave from their ports even though they already knew the outcome of this whole mess and dismissing Israel’s warnings. I also asked him as to what part of the word “terrorist” did he not understand? Even the so called United Nations recognizes “hamas” and other organizations and their sponsors terrorists and rogue states.
Are we not seeing what is happening here? There is no excuse what so ever to backup any organization and “all” people involved and the countries that support terrorism period.
For those of you that do support them please just get a grip and open your eyes. If not the organizations and people that you do support that are associated with terrorism will do it for you and you will not know what happened when they do.
By the way the excuses given as to the reasons why these terrorist organizations including the countries that are supporting them are hilarious. Goes to show just how uneducated the world really is.
People!!
“fallacy of composition”
“fallacy of distribution”
“I think you mean “The Israelis”
“The Jews . . . The Jews . . . The Jews . . .”
We are tangled up here in empty SEMANTICS, _not_ SEMITICS!
For Pity Sake, PROFESSORS, read with common sense. Parsing every passage looking for ghostly “subtle trolls” is a nowhere game.
Do you write about “Quebecois” separatism, or “Quebec” separatism? I’ve been an ardent follower of the Quebec situation for decades, yet have never once heard the separation project distinguished as “Quebecois” separatism!
*James M.: I wrote “Why must _Israel_, on the other hand,…”
We’re not presenting dissertations here, are we?
Base,
It’s not that Israel isn’t a rogue state. They are. But there is a difference between “Jews” and “Israelis”. What willbt was doing is called the fallacy of distribution, specifically the fallacy of composition. I know plenty of Jews who would agree with the assessment that Israel has become uncontrollable just as I know Palestinians who have no desire to have Israel destroyed. The way willbt phrased the post was by its wording anti-Semitic, not anti-Israeli Government. It’s an important distinction.
James M. –
No. The real problem is that Israel is indeed a rogue state, is in violation of more UNSC resolutions than any other country on the planet, is violating international law by perpetrating this blockade against Gaza, and committed an act of war against Turkey by attacking its ship in international waters. These facts are indisputable. Go and do the research on the number of UNSC resolutions by country and see what you come up with. Go look at statements by the UN regarding the legality of the blockade, or the legality of the Gaza war (Goldsmith report), or resolution 242, etc etc etc.
willbt,
I can’t decide if you are a subtle troll or not, but I’ll respond seriously:
Palestinians just want EXACTLY what the post-Holocaust Jews wanted : a Homeland to call Their Own.
No. The problem is that while Palestinians do want a homeland, many Palestinians also want Israel destroyed and have no problem killing innocent civilians (or with supporting others who do so).
Israeli hostility towards this goal of the Palestinians becomes even MORE puzzling when you recall that the Jews didn’t have to fight anyone to claim their new sovereign territory in the Holy Land: it was handed to them on a silver platter by the international community. In the spirit of compassion and justice.
Actually, I think you may want to look up “1948 Arab-Israeli War.” Israel got invaded and fought a war the day after it declared independence.
The Jews . . . The Jews . . . The Jews . . .
I think you mean “The Israelis”
I concur whole-heartedly with criticism leveled against Israel by SeattleJoe (I guess having 150 atom bombs and the most powerful military machine in the region (and then some) makes you think you can get away with anything.), and Queen of Sheba (No doubt they’ll just state that the doctor is just another lying propagandist.)
Israel has become a rogue state.
It perplexes me that the Israelis, adherents of such a profoundly humanistic faith, CAN NOT get it clear in their collective minds that Palestinians just want EXACTLY what the post-Holocaust Jews wanted : a Homeland to call Their Own. Israeli hostility towards this goal of the Palestinians becomes even MORE puzzling when you recall that the Jews didn’t have to fight anyone to claim their new sovereign territory in the Holy Land: it was handed to them on a silver platter by the international community. In the spirit of compassion and justice.
Why must Israel, on the other hand, make the Palestinians bleed and bleed to have what they, the Jews, have already?
Well, I’ll be damned! Looks like Israel has gotten some tips from that slimey little punk James O’Keefe and the slimey big punk Andrew Breitbart!
‘…but now admits that due to “an open channel, the specific ship or ships in the Freedom Flotilla responding to the Israeli Navy could not be identified.”
Even limiting the transmission to the flotilla seem fartetched. They could have transmitted it themselves for exactly the PR use that they have put it. It could have been spliced into another transmission.
Did any other ship in that area pick up the Flotilla’s transmissions? Unless those transmissions were blocked by Isarel surely other ships, ham opperators etc. would have been listening for that pre announced confrontation.
Maybe Israel will next explain how the activists on the ship managed to use their “weapons,” i.e., pipes and poles, to shoot 9mm shells into themselves in their own backs, or their own temples, or the back of their own heads. I’m sure Israeli officials will be quick to comment on the autopsies conducted on the activist dead by the Turkish coroner. No doubt they’ll just state that the doctor is just another lying propagandist.
AY:
The Turks have become progressively radicalized by Islamic factions in the Country. Part of the problem I see is the reflexive reaction by Turks (and many in the West) against an “attack” on a “humanitarian” group. Most tend to see such groups as inherently benevolent and hence worthy of protection. The jihadists understand this Western sentiment and use our sense of propriety against us by merging the benevolent functions of the group with that of militant Islam. Hamas is a prime example. The study I cited gives this explicit support. One has to understand that militants play by only one universal law – the law of the jungle.
This type of deception is explicitly permitted by the Sahih al-Bukhari (84:64-65)(one of the six canonical Hadith collections):
Narrated ‘Ali:
Whenever I tell you a narration from Allah’s Apostle, by Allah, I would rather fall down from the sky than ascribe a false statement to him, but if I tell you something between me and you (not a Hadith) then it was indeed a trick (i.e., I may say things just to cheat my enemy). [emphasis mine] No doubt I heard Allah’s Apostle saying, “During the last days there will appear some young foolish people who will say the best words but their faith will not go beyond their throats (i.e. they will have no faith) and will go out from (leave) their religion as an arrow goes out of the game. So, where-ever you find them, kill them, for who-ever kills them shall have reward on the Day of Resurrection.”
You know when I was a kid in the sixties the Israelis were quite well thought of in many parts of the world, not just the US. Somewhere along the way they got really bad at PR. I guess having 150 atom bombs and the most powerful military machine in the region (and then some) makes you think you can get away with anything.
Photos of beaten and bloodied Israeli soldiers, kicked and stabbed from the raid.
http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/g.php?g=55&p=1#gallerytop
What I do not undersatnd is that during the 1490’s when Spain was kicking the Jews out Turkey was one of the few country’s that allowed them refuge. Hmm, a lot of things have happened, since then I guess.
I eagerly await clarification and explanation from the IHH- provided tapes and propaganda. As I mentioned in commentary to the original post, the IHH has been linked with al-Qaida and other militant Islamic groups and involved in gun running according to a French expert in the field. It was directly involved in the LAX Millennium bomb plot in the U.S. I find it odd to expect truth only from Israel and not from its antagonist who has direct involvement in terrorist plots against us.
http://jonathanturley.org/2010/06/01/gaza-raid-triggers-international-outcry-and-question-of-international-law/
Cherry-picked propaganda used to forward an agenda? Impossible, I say!