While both Democratic and Republican politicians have continued to campaign on faith-based politics, Australia’s Prime Minister Julia Gillard has declared that she will not pretend to believe in God to appease religious voters.
Gillard insisted “I am not going to pretend a faith I don’t feel. I am what I am and people will judge that. . . . For people of faith, I think the greatest compliment I could pay to them is to respect their genuinely held beliefs and not to engage in some pretence about mine.”
Another change is that Gillard has a “first partner”: Tim Mathieson.
Source: ABC.
Elaine,
True that.
[youtube=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b_O2r26UD4A&hl=en_US&fs=1]
More Bush nonsense, especially since he invaded Iraq illegally and is too stupid not to contradict himself even when given softball questions by “journalist” Charlie Gibson.
[youtube=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-l_nUibzvAI&hl=en_US&fs=1]
Pst! “Liberty” is not a “gift from the Almighty”, it’s a direct result of the very deist thoughts brought about by the Enlightenment and liberty was both defined and fought for by men who were fighting against men who claimed to have divine sanction.
Buddha–
Don’t forget that George Dubya was getting advice from his “heavenly” father!
Byron,
Iraq was about one thing: personal Presidential greed over the interests of We the People. It has nothing to do with statism. Afghanistan, on the other hand, does have something to do with statism and the ridiculous idea of nation building. Afghanistan was a valid military target as the training grounds the Saudis used to prep the 9/11 attackers. However, dealing with the Afghan problem was doomed the instant the war machine got their profit hooks into the system. I mean, what money grubbing whore wouldn’t jump at the chance to charge $400 a gallon for fuel? There is and was only one correct response to 9/11.
We should have bombed the hell out of Saudi Arabia, occupied their lands and turned them into a protectorate after executing the members of the “royal” family responsible for funding and planning the attacks. Killing in self-defense requires that you actually kill those who attacked you, not those who have a resource you want to exploit. Concurrently we should have destroyed all the Taliban resources we could in Afghanistan and then got out as quickly as possible and leaving this simple message to Afghanistan, Pakistan and any other nation that would harbor terrorist training camps: do it again and we’ll bomb you into submission and fill your skies with Predator drone, end of message. Leave the “nation building” to the locals. The concept of “nation building” is one of the ultimates in statist abuse capable by any government. It assumes those in power of one country have the right to tell others how to run theirs. They have a term for it even – “American Exceptionalism”. You want to talk statist abuses? There’s your target right there.
Everything else? It’s not directly related to statism and has a tangential relationship at best. It’s directly related to private greed and the willingness of the Bush Administration to be traitors and commit treason for their personal benefit and their business partners in Riyadh.
Byron–
I think you answered a question that I never asked. I didn’t ask if you thought wars were necessary.
Here is the question I asked in a previous comment: “You mean that you really don’t think that Breaker Morant is an anti-war movie?”
Tootie,
I don’t have a problem with real Christians – just phony ignorant narrow-minded intolerant zealots like you. The problem isn’t religion, it is religious fundamentalism and the ‘American Taliban’ that you are an apologist for is every bit as pernicious as the muslims that want to impose sharia law on the world. One of the wisest things our founding fathers did was to try to keep religion and government separate (they were a smart bunch of deists and atheists – maybe you should read Jefferson’s version of the gospels where he’s removed all of the references to the divinity of Jesus and just left all of his teachings about how to behave that you like to ignore). I’ll leave you with the thought that Christian domination of Europe led to the dark ages and Muslim domination of North Africa and the Middle East at the same time led to fantastic scientific progress… Go try to spread your misinformed lies about history somewhere else.
Elaine:
Actually no I don’t. I believe that sometimes war is necessary to protect society. I know nothing of the Boar War but I imagine England was not in need of protection. Breaker Morant was sacrificed for the greater “good”, i.e. to English society.
War is harsh and should only be used when all other options fail, but when it is undertaken it should be fought brutally and unmercilessly. When the state decides to fight “Just Wars” you get Iraq and Afghanistan. How many “Breaker Morants” have been sacrificed in these wars for the concept of a “Just War”?
I believe Breaker Morant and what we see today in Iraq and Afghanistan is a symptom of statism and the negation of the idea of the superiority of the individual in society.
So I see Breaker Morant as the symptom of a larger problem with the society.
Gyges,
True, the new lands were more favorable than the Christians’ homelands but why they were more favorable is the question especially since the homelands they were fleeing is/was also largely Christian societies. The Puritans were radicals who thought the Reformation didn’t go far enough and their extremist views led to them being unwelcome in much of Europe. In that respect, Puritans have much in common with today’s Fundamentalist movement – they were a fringe group bent on political domination of worship practices that would force others into their oppressive/repressive practices.
The Puritans left England, France and the Netherlands because they made themselves unwelcome by being intolerant (and ignorant) zealots.
Contrast this to the Conquistadors. They were actually waging a “holy” war for souls. Or at least that was the public rationale they used for raiding and pillaging Central and South America and their existing cultures.
BIL,
Should we point out that the reason the Americas and Austrila were flooded with Christians was because they were more attractive than the Christians’ homelands? How about that the majority of people moving to America are STILL moving from nations with a majority of Christians?
I mean if you get down to it, the only real problem that Tootie’s argument is which facet of her alternate history is the most divergent from reality.
Tootie always crack me up. I sometimes wonder that Tootie is just an atheist masquerading as a Fundie Wingnut just to troll our commentary sections.
Pete,
I’ll take that one on. Just call me Carl Spackler.
China was a scientifically advanced country before Jesus was even born, Tootles.
They were practicing astronomy, building the first clocks (shadowclocks), practicing the beginnings of aerodynamics by building sophisticated kites and built the first computer – the abacus – all before the birth of Jesus.
They also developed high quality porcelain (which to this day goes by the name “China”), herbal medicines and a systematic approach to medicine, gunpowder (one of your favorite things), the compass (which you need since you are clearly lost), paper and printing with movable type (which do you no good as evidenced by your shallow knowledge base and poor reasoning) all while most of Europe and Central Asia were either overrun with barbarians or under Roman or Macedonian control. Roman and Greek civilization that was, despite its advancements, still far behind China in science overall.
Your ignorance and bigotry though? You’re still ahead of the Chinese there, Tootles. You are in fact becoming a world leader in stupidity.
“China has science now because of western civilization.”
That one just hangs there like a turd in the swimming pool; no-one wants to touch it.
Tootie:
This site attracts the brightest people, thanks to our magnificent host JT. In the past paid shills have been known to drop in. Tootie what motivates you? Are you paid to play?
And no shrooms were ingested, thanks.
CCD: Are you eating those funny mushrooms?
Woost: What is your point?
Aussie–
“Or perhaps check yourself into the nearest insane asylum.”
*********
Or INANE asylum?????
Fear not oh Biblical scholars. If Adam and Eve were the First and they had three son, Abel, Cain and the lesser known Seth, pray tell where did Cain go after he was able to kill Able?
Why was he vanquished to the land of the cainnites?
I AM
Tootie you worship at the alter of neon Jesus. Completely missing the message of Christ Consciousness. Fear keeps you imprisoned, set yourself free.
Or perhaps check yourself into the nearest insane asylum. It’s delusional, self-righteous bigots of your ilk that turn this beautiful planet into a battleground. You preach your faith but forget that we’re all sons and daughters of Adam and Eve.
“And know that it wasn’t or isn’t among the heathens and atheists. They have to take the table scraps of what Christian civilizations leave behind…”
Tootie dear, your religeous history is as twisted as your political logic. Christians are as badly in need of the Constitutional protections of ‘Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of Happiness’ as any heathen or atheist. Historically, Christian missions have been based on the same kind of lack of cultural respect that fundamentalist Dems and Republicans demonstrate for each other. Got Respect?
Byron–
“and I thought it was about the individual against the all powerful state, silly me.”
**********
Isn’t it the “all powerful state” that sends individuals to fight wars? You mean that you really don’t think that Breaker Morant is an anti-war movie?