Never Too Early to Cave?

Obama signals he may allow rich to keep their tax breaks.

Is this some special negotiating strategy that I’m unfamiliar with? Admit willingness to compromise before negotiations even begin. What idiot came up with that idea?

This is one of the best issues for Democrats. Tax breaks for millionaires/billionaires, is a winning strategy. Even time the Republicans say “tax breaks for all;” repeat “tax breaks for all billionaires.” And repeat, and repeat, …

Keep it simple, the Republicans are giving tax breaks to their wealthy friends. Hammer them over the head with that slogan from every corner of the Democratic Party, from the Congress, from the White House, and from the pundits. The Presidency is also a political office and Obama has failed on this aspect.

This President has not been partisan enough. A person who is not partisan does not have strong principles. Maybe that’s the answer, Obama is too much of a pragmatist and lacks the principles that set great leaders apart.


-David Drumm (Nal)

79 thoughts on “Never Too Early to Cave?”

  1. “like those offered by Birthers the simply”

    I cannot type as fast as I think, a thousand pardons.

  2. BTW Elaine,

    There’s nothing Jill could argue that would convince me that Michele Bachmann is not a full blown Lithium candidate.

  3. Elaine,

    Please don’t confuse my siding with Jill regarding that particular observation per Obama with a wholesale acceptance of her comments.

  4. Swarthmore mom: “Bob, Esq. You really have no idea how Professor Turley voted. Virginia has been over run with republicans in the past year. Are you trying to say he voted for them or he stayed home?”

    Whether Turley voted or stayed at home is irrelevant to my argument. That’s Tony C’s argument; not mine.

  5. Buddha,
    While I do not agree with your statement that Obama is as bad as Bush and Cheney, I was particularly disturbed to see Obama’s quote that he would consider extending the Bush tax give aways to the Teapublicans. I am confused by this style of negotiating or compromising. What exactly do the Dems or the Country get for this blow to the deficit? Since I have not seen any mention anywhere about the Teapublicans compromising on anything in order to receive the reported tax give away for two years only, I have a few suggestions for Pres. Obama in his negotiations with McConnell and the rest of the anti-science, super rich and corporate groupies. I would consider giving in on the tax give away if the Teapublicans agree (in writing and live on Fox) to agree to end the filibuster and individual member holds in the Senate through 2012 and agree to the immediate vote on any and all administration and Judicial nominations. I would also consider giving in on the tax give away for 2 years, if the Teapublicans agree to a criminal investigation into all members of the Bush regime on the issue of torture, especially since Pres. Bush once again admitted to ordering the illegal torture of detainees. I would also remind the Teapublicans that if any of their members put “impeachment” on the House table then I would suggest that AG Holder should immediately begin prosecution of those very same Bush administration officials, including Bush and Cheney and Rice. Without those “compromises” by the Teapublicans, the Obama Administration should let all of the tax cuts expire after a televised presentation to the entire nation explaining what the Teapublicans have refused to compromise on and that they are shutting down the government and possibly sending us into a full depression. I hope President Obama is reading Prof. Turley’s blog!

  6. Smom,

    I didn’t say I didn’t vote nor did I encourage people not to vote. I have, in fact, previously advocated selective voting.

    Above I said I’m sick of my choices being dipshit criminal #1 or dipshit criminal #2 as are most people and the rest stems from that.

  7. buddah I guess we will disagree on the next election as we did on the last. I did not stay home. The Texas republicans are now going to pass the voter identification card law now that they have a bigger majority. There is a difference between the parties as the democrats plan on voting against it.

  8. Bob,

    Gyges analysis is spot on and Jill has a point up to the sentence “I want to add something here.”

    After that?

    She’s full of “more liberal than thou” crap.

    There’s plenty of criticism of both parties here and while some use pragmatism to solve their Morton’s Fork dilemma of having two shitty choices to choose from at the ballot box to justify further supporting Obama, that choice will only lead to greater and greater dissatisfaction and eventually a tipping point. It’s the nature of the dilemma as it repeatedly manifests against human psychology. If your choice are always POS #1 or POS #2, eventually people will reach a breaking point and want some cake. Cake that was rightfully theirs to begin with that has been stolen by bad actors in business and government and they’ll come and take it from the evil doers own pantries even if they have to step over bodies to get it. It won’t be pretty but that’s the path both parties have put this country on in the last 10 years. And I’ve said it before so I’ll say it again: nothing – NOTHING – with get better until Bush and Cheney are put on trial for treason. EVER. But that’s where getting the ball rolling to reasserting a government of and by the people instead of for and by whomever is lining the pockets of the greedy narcissists in Washington starts. Justice for all or justice for none. Obama was supposed to put that ball in motion. Instead, he gave it to his corporate financiers.

    The Israel/Palestine argument by analogy is facile. Despite what the Fundies and their pets in Washington want you to think, Israel is NOT the 51st state and the problems they are creating in the ME are ultimately THEIR problem, not ours just as the problems of the Palestinians are. They’ll solve it or they won’t. I wish them well, I really do, but it really is their problem to fix because the problem is with both their own governments. Israel is run by insane Zionist Neocon war hawks and the Palestinians by terrorists and it is the duty of the people of Israel and Palestine who want to just live in peace to force their governments to do so just like it’s our duty to clean up our own house before circumstances do it for us.

    On the domestic front, we have our own problems and they are more a direct threat to We the People than anything external at the moment. Reconcile versus agitate? I want both parties figurative heads on the proverbial plate at this point. Both the GOP/Teabaggers with their illegal war for Bush’s bank statement and the DNC with their “impeachment is off the table/we can kill citizens without due process” treasons have proven they are both the enemies of ordinary natural citizens and merely pawns of who gives them the most graft whether it be a corporation or an ultra-wealthy individual.

    Two “employees” taking orders from one boss and it isn’t We the People anymore although our name is still on the door that says “Boss”. Venal corporatists and evil people who will send your children and loved ones to their death simply for personal profit and self-aggrandizement all the while coddling the country that DID attack us on 9/11, Saudi Arabia, and their big business co-conspirators in stripping away the civil rights of American citizens under the lie, the illusion, of “perfect security” – there is no such thing as chaos or randomness if you prefer is built in to the very fabric of reality (ask a physicist if you doubt it).

    Any leader that does what Bush/Cheney and now Obama needs to be held accountable by We the People or else there will eventually be civil discord or someone like China will feel threatened enough by the bad and internationally aggressive governance of both parties to make all of Washington go away in a burst of gamma rays.

    Concerning Obama, the final straw with me with both him and the DNC was Obama taking his stance of executing citizens without due process was just fine and dandy as if he’d never even seen the 4th Amendment let alone taught it. I had been growing ever so disenchanted by his actions to that point, but that simply sealed the deal. Obama is just as bad as Bush or Cheney now. I’ve said it so often now that I’m probably on the no-fly list. America has been sold by those entrusted to protect our interests under the Constitution. The GOP and the DNC have proven they are truly We the People’s enemy as much or more than any terrorist. Now they’re both just pissing on us and trying to tell us it’s raining, but Jill wants to talk some more. That makes as much sense as trying to negotiate with a rabid dog right now. My official stance is screw both criminal organizations. Neither are enshrined in the Constitution as protected and both have proven they need to go the way of the dinosaurs if We the People, the Constitution and DOI are to survive. Neither has an agenda in line with their Constitutionally mandated duties to protect the Constitution or Joe and Mary Citizen’s interests. Both are leading us to a fascist dictatorship which historically always ends badly – either in civil war or invasion but always with lots of collateral civilian damage, but it always ends with the “leaders” dangling in the breeze.

    Let’s be clear about loyalties here for a second. Yeah, I voted for Obama under the hope that a Constitutional law professor would have the tools, good sense and will required to do what had to be done to restore the rule of law and protect the Constitution, not suck up to the bad guys and cover his own ass. I have allegiance to the Constitution as informed by the Declaration of Independence. End of line. Not either party and certainly not Bush, Cheney or Obama or the flag or apple pie (although I do love apple pie).

    Have I defended Obama in the past?

    Yes, when appropriate. I’ll defend him from the accusation like those offered by the simply because I don’t believe in fostering right wing nonsense propaganda with silence, but on everything else I (and many others here) have been quite vocal about his failings.

    Will I defend Obama carte blanc? Absolutely not nor have I in the past nor have most of the regulars here.

    If that’s not enough criticism for Jill, that would be her problem.

    Personally I’m waiting for the torch bearing mobs to start forming, but we’ll need another 4-6 years of spiraling underemployment and poverty before people get hungry enough to eat the rich, the corporatists and their lobbyist pimps.

    And I’m going to laugh when it happens.

    Because in the words of Batman to Ra’s al Ghul, “I don’t have to kill you, but I don’t have to save you either.”

    You reap what you sow because life is a circle.

    The GOP and DNC have sown lies, crimes and distrust and eventually they both will reap retribution for their efforts.

    As an aside, Bush admitted he ordered torture in the biography someone had to write for his intellectually stunted criminal dumb ass. His book will not be for sale at my “Torch and Fire-proof Hand Basket” stand. It will, however, be available in the port-o-potty right next door although the suggested usage isn’t reading but rather what he used the Constitution for – wiping.

    And yes, LK, Bob is being a shit disturber.

    But he’s not doing it without forethought as to consequence.

    There’s a time for almost every tool.

    A little shit disturbing is what is needed to get Washington to pull their collective head out of their collective ass and realize that We the People are their true bosses and, like a true curmudgeon, if We have to get out of this chair, there is going to be trouble.

    I’m not advocating civil war or rebellion. I’ve said all along I prefer procedural remedy in accordance with the Constitution, but what I am saying is that it’s a mathematical certainty on our current social path. It’s not a matter of if, but of when unless the ship of state is turned around and those who took it off course for personal gain are held accountable. The first crank of that wheel for course adjustment must be holding Bush and Cheney and any other traitors within our government accountable and removing the influence to those corporatists who put them (and apparently Obama) in office to do their vile bidding instead of the job as defined by the Constitution.

    War crimes and treason trials must be had.

    And it’s better that we do it now rather than wait for the American equivalent of Nuremberg.

    Publicly funded elections must be had.

    Or else the mechanism that broke the ship’s steering will remain in place.

    Money is not speech. Money is avarice manifested in a medium of exchange and that’s what is killing America by corruption – plain simple stupid greed being put ahead of the common good. And let’s not forget those overblown Washington egos! They played a part in this disaster, that whole “I’m special” mentality.

    Unless we get Washington to understand that before it’s too late (and it’s almost too late yesterday), someday someone will be penning a poem about America like Martin Niemöller wrote about Nazi Germany:

    “When the Nazis came for the communists,
    I remained silent;
    I was not a communist.

    When they locked up the social democrats,
    I remained silent;
    I was not a social democrat.

    When they came for the trade unionists,
    I did not speak out;
    I was not a trade unionist.

    When they came for the Jews,
    I remained silent;
    I wasn’t a Jew.

    When they came for me,
    there was no one left to speak out.”

    For one, I will not lie down and I will not go quietly.

    I stand for the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution. The rest of the venal egoistic dross can burn for all I care. I’ve had enough of crimes, lies and platitudes from both the GOP and DNC.

    And as to the story proper, Michelle Bachmann is insane.

    One need look no further than her eyes to tell.

    They are the window to the soul, or in this case, the empty vessel.

    Now . . . has everyone been criticized enough in this post?

    Not a damn bit.

    The criticism in earnest is just beginning, but the criticism has been here all along.

  9. Elaine Palin and to themselves as “christian warrior women”. That does not sound too peace loving to me.

  10. Spelling correction:

    I wasn’t quite sure why Jill appeared to be sickened by my “breezy” CRITICISM of Michele Bachmann–someone who said she wanted to see residents of her state “armed and dangerous–and who claimed she’d love to have the press investigate “anti-American” members of Congress.

  11. The above article even tells you why this happened also.The Repubs were very cunning,and the Dems were watching that shiney object over there somewhere.

    Representative Alan Grayson, Democrat of Florida, stood outside his home in Orlando two weeks before the election and marveled at the scope of the attacks and the candidates they were backing. “They think they can elect a ham sandwich,” he said.

    He expressed relief that the barrage against him had come to an end, noting that his attackers appeared to have concluded that their work with him was done and moved on to another member.

    They were correct. He was one of the 60 Democrats who lost their seats on Tuesday.

    “They think they can elect a ham sandwich,” he said.

    They could have,and you have to respect the planning.
    Puts you in the mind of a street gang,but with sophistacation and money to back it up.

  12. Elaine Obama extended the olive branch to Mitch McConnell yesterday, and today Mitch McConnell refused it.

  13. Bob,Esq.,

    I agree that many liberals turned a blind eye to some of the things that President Obama has done. I was responding to Jill’s accusation that most of the liberals who comment on this blog have done the same. I also agree the response Gyges left for Jill.

    Everytime I try to get into that particular Biden thread my computer screen freezes. I think the post has too many comments. The funny thing is that I don’t have the same problem on my husband’s MacBook. Unfortunately, the MacBook is not available to me at the moment.

    BTW, Jill left the following comment for me at my “A Bachmann Concerto” post today:


    “I asked this question below and I will ask it of you again. I have been sickened by the breezy way so many here are ready to turn on their fellow citizens. Most liberals say that Israel and Palestine must have peace talks, despite atrocities that boggle the mind, atrocities on both sides but more so from the occupying power, Israel. Still, liberals expect the Israelis and Palestinians to know that peace is the only way and the only way to peace is to sit at the table with one’s enemy. Yet, these same liberals refuse to sit at the table with their own enemy on the right. Will problems everywhere else in the world be solved by sitting down with your enemy, but here in the US, liberals will not have the courage to be peacemakers–to do that which is hard, to sit down with your enemy for the sake of a common good? Instead, I see time after time that many people here are happy to engage in fanning the flames of citizen on citizen hatred. To what purpose are you aiming by these actions? Did you suppose peace and justice and a good society was an easy task?

    “I am not saying that you should not criticize or analyze the right wing, far from it. You should do this. But where is your self analysis? Is violence only a problem when it occurs intra-nationally or is it a problem when it occurs overseas as well? Because if the lives of others, foreign nationals, count, then the Democrats are implicated in violence that is so horrific, no thinking person would condone it.

    “Where do you go from here? How can you stop violence both at home and abroad? That is the work of a peacemaker.”


    I wasn’t quite sure why Jill appeared to be sickened by my “breezy” criticm of Michele Bachmann–someone who said she wanted to see residents of her state “armed and dangerous–and who claimed she’d love to have the press investigate “anti-American” members of Congress.

    I’m also not sure how Jill has determined what “most liberals” think. Haven’t many conservatives refused to sit at the same table with their “own enemy” on the left?

  14. The (2) year plan revealed:

    The PowerPoint slides presented to House Republicans in January 2009 seemed incongruously optimistic at a time when the very word “hope” belonged to the newly ascendant Democrats and their incoming president, Barack Obama.

    “If the goal of the majority is to govern, what is the purpose of the minority?” one slide asked.

    “The purpose of the minority,” came the answer, “is to become the majority.”

    The presentation was the product of a strategy session held 11 days before Mr. Obama’s inauguration, when top Republican leaders in the House of Representatives began devising an early blueprint for what they would accomplish in Tuesday’s election: their comeback.

  15. Bob,Esq.: “Elaine, Why don’t you ask Buddha if Jill has a point.”

    Bob is being a shit-disturber.

  16. Bob, Esq. You really have no idea how Professor Turley voted. Virginia has been over run with republicans in the past year. Are you trying to say he voted for them or he stayed home? We can be critical and should be of the democrats, but it does not mean we have the left the party.

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