While the world is reacting to leaks indicating that Saudi Arabia is funding Al Qaeda and Clinton ordered diplomats to engage in espionage, Sens. Claire McCaskill (D-Mo.) and Lindsey Graham (R-S.C.) have called for the prosecution of those responsible for the leaks.
The leaks also show the Saudis pressuring the United States to attack Iran — once again having the United States do the dirty work for regional interests. Then there is the revelation that Iran smuggled weapons in ambulances to Hezbollah.
Graham insists that the matter is clear “we’re at war . . . If you can prosecute them, let’s try.” McCaskill agreed, stressing “I hope we can find out where this is coming from and go after them with the force of law.”
As with the disclosures of the torture program, some of these disclosures are likely not new information for Senators. Members of the intelligence committees have often been criticized for knowledge of abuses or even crimes in our government without making them public or taking significant action. Thus far, there has not been a single suggestion of public hearings on these allegations — only a demand to prosecute the person responsible for making them public. The problem is that some of this information shows that the public has been given false or misleading information on major policies. I guess this is an example of what Senator Rockefeller said was the harm of media coverage denying the public of its sense of happiness and contentment in their government.
I am a firm believer in the need to maintain secrecy in areas of national security, but some of these leaks raise (again) a growing lack of confidence in Congress in serving as a true check and balance on abuses.
Well, that’s the thing, Bdaman. We need it more than ever because it might just save us…
It won’t at this critical time. It’s gonna make it worse. Tensions are rising all over the world and will be especially in the Middle East.
Gyges, Gippers Ghost Buddha
Good you guys take this back to the other thread.
Gipper,
Words have meanings. I keep repeating this because you seem to be completely ignorant of that fact.
Fascism has a meaning, Socialism has a meaning.
These two meanings are not the same. See?
so·cial·ism
–noun
1.
a theory or system of social organization that advocates the vesting of the ownership and control of the means of production and distribution, of capital, land, etc., in the community as a whole.
2.
procedure or practice in accordance with this theory.
3.
(in Marxist theory) the stage following capitalism in the transition of a society to communism, characterized by the imperfect implementation of collectivist principles.
fas·cism
/ˈfæʃɪzəm/ Show Spelled[fash-iz-uhm] Show IPA
–noun
1.
( sometimes initial capital letter ) a governmental system led by a dictator having complete power, forcibly suppressing opposition and criticism, regimenting all industry, commerce, etc., and emphasizing an aggressive nationalism and often racism.
2.
( sometimes initial capital letter ) the philosophy, principles, or methods of fascism.
3.
( initial capital letter ) a fascist movement, esp. the one established by Mussolini in Italy 1922–43.
I have the feeling that I can spend all night quoting historians, leading figures of various movements (both socialist and fascist), etc. to no avail. Why? Because of this
“Socialism/communism/fascism are evil pure and simple.” If we don’t follow your path, we’re all doomed. You hold on to your philosophy as generations have done before you, the barbarians have always been at the gate, and they’ve always been evil and subhuman.
You have faith in the TRUTH of your beliefs.
Well I’m done.
Go preach your fire and brimstone politics at someone else. I’ll stick to my world where people use words to convey thoughts, not to stop them.
Bdaman,
You said:
“Right I’m with you Anon Nurse but this pushes us into more turmoil. The whole world for that matter. We didn’t need it right now.”
Well, that’s the thing, Bdaman. We need it more than ever because it might just save us…
And let ’em sweat a little — it’s not even close to “torture”…
Gyges:
I read enough of that to know that Mussolini was extolling fascism while employing socialism.
I see where you would think that fascism and socialism are not the same. Benito tried his best to obfuscate but it is all about the individual in service to the state which is nothing more than socialism.
I might give you that fascism is a dictatorship and socialism can be a democracy but in terms of the individual the distinction amounts to little except that you get to choose your poison rather than have it shoved down your throat.
Socialism/communism/fascism are evil pure and simple, because they deny the individual in favor of the state.
Gipper,
Words have meanings.
Which is why you’d laugh as hard at me for saying
Cars=> Land
Longboats=> The Ocean as in, former land
There is little distinction between cars and longboats, but go on believing there is if it makes you feel better.
as hard as I laughed at what you just said.
socialism => the left
fascism => neo-cons as in former lefties
there is little distinction between fascism and socialism. But go on believing there is if it makes you feel better.
Gipper,
This seems oddly relevant:
http://www.worldfuturefund.org/wffmaster/Reading/Germany/mussolini.htm
Words have meanings.
False equivalences between fascism and socialism are the faulty arguments of Neocon trolls.
And a logical error on top of being propaganda.
this is what you get with fascism/socialism. No surprises here.
I never did like W’s dad and he didn’t fall very far from that tree.
“What Wikileaks is doing is physiological torture.”
Bullshit.
What they are doing is the critical journalistic function of protecting whistleblowers.
When they start waterboarding people, get back to me.
CYA
ignore the message
shoot the messenger
Right I’m with you Anon Nurse but this pushes us into more turmoil. The whole world for that matter. We didn’t need it right now.
Pakistan’s ties with Saudi Arabia appeared to be under fresh strain on Monday in the wake of revelations from classified documents released by WikiLeaks, which quoted Saudi Arabian King Abdullah calling Pakistan’s president Asif Ali Zardari “the greatest obstacle” to the country’s progress.
“When the head is rotten, it affects the whole body,” Abdullah said of Zardari in one of the documents.
While Pakistani officials publicly condemned the claim as an attempt to undermine the traditionally close ties between the two countries, western and Arab diplomats warned that the revelations may have finally exposed genuine underlying tensions.
Both are prominent Islamic states: Saudi Arabia is the world’s largest oil producer and the birthplace of Islam while Pakistan has the distinction of being the world’s only Muslim country armed with nuclear weapons.
Pakistan’s relations with Saudi Arabia predate its birth in 1947, when the country was carved out as an independent state from British colonial India. And many Pakistanis – like Muslims in all countries – feel tied to Saudi Arabia because of the traditional Islamic pilgrimage to the holy city of Mecca.
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503543_162-20023973-503543.html
Anon Nurse ask yourself how effective Hillary Clinton can be now.
The US State Department gave its diplomats instructions to spy on other countries’ representatives at the United Nations, according to a directive signed by Hillary Clinton. Diplomats were told to collect information about e-mail accounts, credit cards and passwords, among other things.
http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/0,1518,731587,00.html
Bdaman, you wrote:
“What Wikileaks is doing is physiological torture. Lots of people trying to damage control and worried what will be leaked next.”
===========================
Well, as Mister DNA said (November 29, 2010 at 2:07 pm on the “Peter King thread):
“What’s the big deal? If the government isn’t doing anything wrong, it should have nothing to fear.”
Isn’t “that what the government always tells us?”
Look. Our government is up to some very nasty business at home. I hope that those who are behind it ARE worried about what’s coming next. They should be. I hope they’re prosecuted and spend the rest of their natural lives behind bars. As someone else on this blog says, “I can dream, can’t I?”
This isn’t a partisan issue. Obama has directed the DoJ to investigate wikileaks. I believe Obama is a registered Democrat. The belief in the existence of two opposing parties must end and a realistic vision of the govt. needs to emerge. Here is an interesting article from the NYTimes entitled: The Partisan Mind. Also, if you watch the documentary, “Inside Job” illusions of Democrats are good and Republicans are bad will be challenged by an overwhelming number of facts that one can verify, for oneself. I hope the partisans here will have the courage to go see this movie and see if the facts are accurate or not.
“Op-Ed Columnist
The Partisan Mind
By Ross Douthat
Published: November 28, 2010
Imagine, for a moment, that George W. Bush had been president when the Transportation Security Administration decided to let Thanksgiving travelers choose between exposing their nether regions to a body scanner or enduring a private security massage. Democrats would have been outraged at yet another Bush-era assault on civil liberties. Liberal pundits would have outdone one another comparing the T.S.A. to this or that police state. (“In an outrage worthy of Enver Hoxha’s Albania …”) And Republicans would have leaped to the Bush administration’s defense, while accusing liberals of going soft on terrorism.
Josh Haner/The New York Times
But Barack Obama is our president instead, so the body-scanner debate played out rather differently…”
So, it would have been better if it hadn’t come to light? Hey, the problem is that we tortured. Period.
I agree. It’s not that it shouldn’t have come to light it’s
these things eventually come out years later. In this day and age of the internet for them to come out so quickly puts more lives in danger and most definitely the loss of additional lives on both sides. What Wikileaks is doing is physiological torture. Lots of people trying to damage control and worried what will be leaked next.
Yes Buddha as always your right, good show, jolly good show ol chap
Bdaman,
We tortured…
You wrote “And Anon Nurse thats where it comes full circle. Because of the torture being disclosed we have now emboldened our enemies.”
“Because of the torture being disclosed?” So, it would have been better if it hadn’t come to light? Hey, the problem is that we tortured. Period.
And what do you think that Bush and Cheney were up to right here at home? Do you think for a minute that it was just about listening in on phone calls and reading e-mail? Well, it wasn’t.
And from my uncomfortable position in all of this, if I were a bettin’ person, I’d say that the actions of those involved in what’s going on domestically are provoking violence.
Torture ordered by Neocon Republicans.
Neocon Republicans you support, bdaman. Or do you have to be reminded of your previously kind words for PNAC and consistent towing of the “war is peace” Neocon love song?
“We went to war under false pretenses. And that’s just the beginning of it.”
And Anon Nurse thats where it comes full circle. Because of the torture being disclosed we have now emboldened our enemies.
As soon as the knowledge of torture went worldwide they started lining up to join the fight against those evil Americans. These are barbaric people. You saw the video. Do you know how many more videos are online just like that, worse, the beheading of Daniel Pearl. Anon Nurse everyday for the last two years it seems to get worse and worse. When it gets like this we always here about the approaching end times and with the way things are going right now especially with Iran and North Korea it sure feels like we are inching closer.