Submitted by Mark Esposito, Guest Blogger
We’ve read several times on this blog about police reluctance to help drowning victims and even to prohibit family members from leaping into the water to save their loved ones (here) when authorities refuse to help. Seems the policy is now international. Scottish police stood idly by, keeping back onlookers, as a 37 year-old woman thrashed about in the water near Glasgow’s Albert Bridge and repeatedly called for help.
At that moment, three Glasgow University students, Graham McGrath, Rosie Lucey and Rhys Black were walking along the River Clyde and heard the pleas for help. Eschewing official policy, McCGarth and Lucey leapt into the river and pulled out the unidentified drowning woman. Black then waded in to the water and helped pull all three to safety. The three performed CPR until the woman was revived — all without the aid of local Strathclyde Police officers who gave more priority to crowd control.
Before the students arrived, onlookers had tried to throw floatation devices in the river, but to no avail. Moments before the rescue, the near-victim had slipped beneath the water. The actions of the three quick-thinking students clearly saved her life. Said McGrath, “There was a woman in the water shouting for help. There was somebody throwing lifebelts to her, but she couldn’t get to them …nobody was doing anything else ” Lucey added, “‘We realised we were watching someone drown.”
Particularly galling were the words of a police spokesman who sniffed, “‘It is not the responsibility of the police to go into the water – it’s the fire and rescue service.”
One wonders about the police officers responsibilities as human beings.
Source: Mail Online
~Mark Esposito, Guest Blogger
BBB,
Initial test is given, yes, but ongoing training to develop and keep current the skills is part of the job. They have to know how to swim but the department pays for the ongoing training.
I also wondered about the cops’ failure to perform the CPR service once the woman was rescued from the river as Mike Dunford mentioned.
This is a PR nightmare for cops everywhere and you are doing an admirable job in trying to lessen the flak but sometimes it just can’t be done.
To quote one of the students:
Rhys: “I don’t think you make some profound decision to do something dangerous — at the time it was blindingly simple. I could see this woman was drowning and I couldn’t just watch it happen.
“I don’t think I could have ever forgiven myself if I had turned away. I had to do it.”
(Sometimes following orders can strip one of one’s humanity.)
Mike Dunford,
Thank you for your input. I have been a swimmer since I was at least 6-years old, took swimming in college PE, and during military training was instructed on how to help a fellow soldier with full gear while in the water. (We need a Navy person to reply). All I know is that I do not think I could stand on the bank and watch someone drown, especially given expected codes of conduct as an LEO. Remember too, that any LEO on site should have considered that if he did not respond, some bystanders might (as happened).
The following sheds some light on the history of rescue attempts in the same area. (George Parsonage is mentioned in the Mail Online article — the source for Heroes Rush In…)
“George Parsonage of the Glasgow Humane Society, who has rescued 1,500 people from the river, said the students’ actions had been ‘heroic’.”
Published Date: 28 April 2010
By ALASTAIR DALTON
A MAN who has rescued people from the River Clyde for 50 years was yesterday embroiled in a row with firefighters after claiming to have saved a drowning woman they were also attempting to reach.
George Parsonage, of the Glasgow Humane Society, said he had pulled the victim from the water because Strathclyde Fire and Rescue’s boats would not have reached her in time.
Firefighters are also believed to have shouted to police to arrest Mr Parsonage for going into the river, and he said three people holding the rope he was attached to were “chased away”.
Refer to the following link for the remainder of the story which is buried deep in the cache…
http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:ygBtUcAXXsAJ:www.iomtoday.co.im/7659/Firemen-tell-lifesaver-hands-off.6257674.jp+glasgow+%22albert+bridge%22+suicides&hl=en&gl=us&strip=1
Blouise,
Sorry about the hyperlink. I don’t know why it picked up Google instead of the direct link.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article2512401.ece
I have no doubt that in your jurisdiction there was a swimming test. However, that’s not the way it is in all jurisdictions.
Police Dept. Drops Swim Test to Recruit Minorities
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,119143,00.html
Even those who have the ability to keep themselves afloat should not be expected to have the skills needed to save the life of another.
@LEO & Blouse:
I’m not in law enforcement, and I’m not a fire fighter. I am a full-time aquatics manager, which means that I supervise lifeguards and I teach lifeguarding.
There is more to water rescue than simply knowing how to swim. (In fact, for many water rescue skills, good technique is more important than raw swimming strength.) This is true for lifeguards when they are working at pools, lakes, and beaches with rescue equipment; it’s even more true when you are talking about an unfamiliar body of water, cold water temperatures, and a lack of available equipment.
People drown trying to save other people from drowning. Sometimes, that’s because they can’t swim well, or at all, themselves. Other times, the would-be-rescuer-cum-victim is a solid swimmer who got into trouble because they did not know how to keep themselves safe while trying to perform a rescue.
If someone doesn’t know how to safely approach a drowning victim, how to safely secure the victim, and how to escape from a drowning victim’s grasp, then they should not enter the water to rescue the victim.
I’m not trying to entirely excuse the police in this case. If nothing else, I have to wonder at their apparent inability or unwillingness to take over CPR after the rescue, and about what mind-altering compounds would be required to produce a police spokesman capable of trying to dismiss the incident with a “not our job”.
And then, of course, there’s also the point that it’s possible to attempt rescues without entering the water. Extension poles, floatation devices, ropes, etc, are all possible means of assistance that do not place the rescuer in as much risk as a swimming rescue would.
reach, throw, row and go.
BBB is right, a drowning victim can take you down with them. If the cops weren’t trained they should stay out of the water and toss a line.
Although cops aren’t, for the most part, cowards.
Kay Sieverding
I have not previously commented on your case; however please understand that there are likely thousands of people who have been wronged by the government. I am not an attorney and I do not even have the credentials to play one in a play, much less on TV.
Read the following case of a former female airline pilot and FAA inspector who became a whistleblower and whose life the government destroyed. You and others might remember the Alaska Airlines Flight 261 (AA) almost 11 years ago in which all 88 persons onboard died. This whistleblower alerted regulators about AA maintenance violations etc. *before* the crash but her government supervisors retaliated against her. It is a long story and you can search for her name provided in the link. An am still not sure if her case against the FAA has been resolved, after 12 years of conflicts with the government.
IMPORTANT: Although AA and Boeing admitted, liability, astoundingly, the federal prosecutors in the U.S. Attorney’s Office in California *did not* bring criminal charges against the two companies for the deaths of 88 people (there were millions of dollars in payments to the victims’ families). Your case, and one ongoing case with which I have been assisting for 3.5 years with no clear resolution in sight, at least did not involve the deaths of innocent people. Therefore, I suggest that you use the AA whistleblower case and reflect upon those 88 deaths to help you place your case in proper perspective, as I have done in the case with which I am assisting. Yes, sometimes the government will defame, discredit, marginalize, ruin your job prospects, and even jail a person unfairly, but the results could always be substantially worse. Sometimes it might be best for you to know you were right, although you unfortunately and unfairly ‘lost,’ and then ride off into the sunset accepting that you did your level best.
Regardless of the best efforts of persons and/or their attorneys, even with all of the goodness, facts, and law on your side, sometimes justice is simply unobtainable.
Good Luck.
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2008013931_whistleblower24m.html
BBB
“Officers are no longer required to be trained in swimming or lifesaving. One police force closed its training pool five years ago for health and safety reasons after an accident and it has not reopened.”
🙂 … just checked with “the boys” … nice try but no banana here.
BBB,
I can’t, in all good conscience, do that to you, for I live on Lake Erie and was a Civil Service Commissioner who ran the hiring process and promotion process for all fire and police in the community I served and, of course, hung out with other Commissioners from other communities along the lake.
Not only is it required, there are on-going training classes in water rescue and yes … police jet-ski operations to aide in said rescues.
I could play dumb and give you three right off the top of my head where I know it is required but that wouldn’t be exactly honorable on my part.
Perhaps, instead, we can find out if any of the cops standing on the bank of that river knew how to swim and whether Great Britain, a nation that has a very strong Civil Service tradition, requires that police officers know how to swim in that particular jurisdiction in Scotland. If the cops standing on the banks of that river didn’t know how to swim, wouldn’t one think that would be a better reason to offer up to the public than the one that was given?
It’s ok BBB … I am often underestimated … it is one of my strengths and has served me quite well when dealing with hard-nosed Police Union reps and whining Fire Union reps. (See … if you know anything then from those two adjectives you know that I know what I’m talking about.)
“The emergency services are being told not to attempt to save drowning people because of health and safety restrictions, it has emerged.
Amid a growing row over the failure of two police support officers to try to save a boy from drowning, both the police and the fire service disclosed this weekend that their frontline staff are instructed not to enter the water in case they put themselves in danger.
Officers are no longer required to be trained in swimming or lifesaving. One police force closed its training pool five years ago for health and safety reasons after an accident and it has not reopened.”
http://www.google.com/#q=http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2007/oct/24/travelnews.portugal&hl=en&prmd=ivns&ei=SecgTf-BJ4iYnAf3k5X2DQ&start=10&sa=N&fp=7b989c6c17f79c85
Kay,
Look dear, I write this with genuine concern for you … perhaps you need to take a little break … just for a short while to gather yourself.
You are unintentionally making enemies where none existed.
Don’t leave the blog, don’t even close your browser, for your input is valuable … but perhaps a bit of time is needed so that you may come to look upon us as people who are neither out to get you or hurt you.
I sincerely wish you a much happier new year than that which you have experienced in the past.
Blouise,
Let’s put your assumption to the test. You pick a jurisdiction and I’ll find out if they require their police officers to know how to swim.
I don’t think the ability to swim is a requirement unless you decide to join a water patrol division.
I think it’s far too easy to call someone out as a coward without ever having to walk in their shoes (or swim in their trunks).
After doing some additional research, I have found water rescues in the area of the Albert Bridge to be very controversial. The rescues used to be performed by the Glasgow Humane Society, now they are handled by Strathclyde Fire and Rescue.
Kay,
the name I use here is rafflaw, not rafflow. As I said earlier, I am fully aware of what the purpose of this blog is. You do not have to educate me on that, but thank you.
BBB,
Oh come on now … you are a cop in a jurisdiction that contains a large body of water and you don’t know how to swim??? Possible I suppose … but should you then be the one who responds to the call along with all your other colleagues who don’t know how to swim?
I might, given my fear of water, allow one or two out of the bunch … but the entire on-duty force?
Nah … I’m going to stick with cowards.
Nice try though …. and better than the official response: “‘It is not the responsibility of the police to go into the water – it’s the fire and rescue service.’”
I wonder what those cops do in a heavy rain storm … cower in the precinct house?
I can guarantee you this … Fireman all over America are having a grand chuckle at the expense of the Police.
Good Samaritans Face Fine After Rescuing Deer From Icy Water
http://baltimore.cbslocal.com/2010/12/17/good-samaritans-face-fine-after-rescuing-deer-from-icy-water/
Blouise,
“The cops are cowards, plain and simple.”
Even if they didn’t know how to swim?
Blouise,
I am so sorry if I misunderstood your comments. I am not looking for a fight with you at all.
I don’t mean to be suspicious or paranoid.
Happy New Year!!!!
Drowning woman’s rescuers in line for award
http://www.thecourier.co.uk/News/article/5631/drowning-woman-s-rescuers-in-line-for-award.html
[youtube=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ADPTdVcDvLQ&hl=en_GB&feature=player_embedded&version=3]
Kay,
What in the hell are you talking about woman? I have directed no comments to you … and expressed no opinion about your situation.
Go pick a fight with somebody else … I am not the least bit interested.
@ Blouise
What would you do if threatened with imprisonment?
What about if threatened w financial ruin?
What if threatened with defamation?
It’s not so funny when we are faced with totalitarianism is it?
Or maybe it is to you….