Author Phillip W. Magness has long harbored the view that Lincoln biographers had sanitized the history of “The Great Emancipator” to fit his modern popular image. Certainly, civil libertarians have long questioned Lincoln preeminence as a voice of freedom given his denial of habeas corpus and violations of constitutional rights and powers. Now, Magness is about to publish a book entitled “Colonization After Emancipation: Lincoln and the Movement for Black Resettlement,” revealing research showing that Lincoln actively explored and planned for the relocation of freed slaves to British colonies.
The book details how, soon after issuing the Emancipation Proclamation in 1863, Lincoln authorized plans to pursue a freedmen’s settlement in present-day Belize and another in Guyana. Magness and his co-author, Sebastian N. Page, found the documents in British archives, including an order authorizing a British colonial agent to begin recruiting freed slaves to be sent to the Caribbean in June 1863.
Lincoln died a year later.
Other historians have questioned these conclusions and noted that Lincoln was against any compulsory deportation.
Source: Washington Times
Jonathan Turley
Mike, this was my question:
““So, Vince, if you enter MY house [invade my home] and I fire first, that means [because I fired first] that I started the conflict????””
I didnt see a YES or NO anywhere in your answer. Therefore it was not answered.
you said:
“Beyond that though, as I’ve previously stated, if Lincoln were a moron, or evil it wouldn’t have mattered. Pugnacious slave holding barbarity had to be stopped, because if it hadn’t been then this country today would resemble a model of oppression far beyond what any of us could imagine. Do you really think slavery was a good thing and that those enslaved were well off? Do you also believe that the system of indentured servitude that worked in tandem in the South with slavery to develop Southern economy was a proper model that should be allowed to prosper?”
This statement is presumptious that the war was about SLAVERY. It wasnt. As I have previously stated in the Lincoln quotes [that you keep ignoring, I might add] Lincoln had no intention of interfering with slavery and in 1848 he understood that states can secede. You keep IGNORING these quotes. Why are you ignoring LINCOLN himself?
Lincoln could do NOTHING about slavery without an act of Congress because the Dred Scott decision made slavery constitutional in 1857—-so, how do you think Lincoln could have ended slavery without an act of Congress??? Gonna keep ignoring the Lincoln quotes???
Gyges, Mike S.,Bob,Esq.,Larry, et al-
It’s My Party and I’ll Cry If I Want To.
“I believe that the Southern economic system was a cancer on our nation that had to be excised. It’s a pity that it still hasn’t been in some places.” (Mike Spindell)
There are still cancer cells floating around in the American bloodstream … we do our best to keep them away from our vital organs.
“By the way Vince and Mike….your constant ignoring of all my quotes by Lincoln HIMSELF are duly noted. You cant respond to them because you HAVE no answer for them!”
Larry, Larry, Larry,
What are we to do with you since you don’t read or misread all that is written? In response to your same complaint, I wrote to you previously that you hadn’t read the whole thread, because if you had you would have seen that Vince provided answers to all your questions and misstatements.
If you can’t read, or interpret what you have read with some precision, why should I bother going around in circles with you? Beyond that though, as I’ve previously stated, if Lincoln were a moron, or evil it wouldn’t have mattered. Pugnacious slave holding barbarity had to be stopped, because if it hadn’t been then this country today would resemble a model of oppression far beyond what any of us could imagine. Do you really think slavery was a good thing and that those enslaved were well off? Do you also believe that the system of indentured servitude that worked in tandem in the South with slavery to develop Southern economy was a proper model that should be allowed to prosper?
I believe that the Southern economic system was a cancer on our nation that had to be excised. It’s a pity that it still hasn’t been in some places.
“I didnt see an answer to my question. Your posted 2 paragraphs and completely ignored my question. Are you saying NORTHERN troops were NOT AT Fort Sumter?? Then who were the SOUTHERNERS firing at? Their ghosts?”
Larry,
If you didn’t see the answer to your question then you either didn’t read carefully, or are unable to extrapolate. Of course US troops were there, they had a right to be there. The trouble with the South, then and now. is that many while professing great patriotism, still feel disconnected from the rest of the country, which they deem inferior. Just like they needed brutality and terrorism towards Blacks, to make them feel better about themselves. The Civil War was fought over slavery, with the secondary issue being whether individual states had the right to secede from the Union. All people have the right to be rebellious traitors, but to then claim victimization when they lose, shows both hypocrisy and childisness. Any President of the US at that time would have been crazy not to try to suppress the rebellion. In loss the South was far better treated, than if the situation was reversed. We have the barbarism of slavery and its further history of indentured servitude to prove that.
Bob,
Fair enough, personally I’ve never held a party another person’s house, but I imagine it does happen.
To clarify: It’s my living room.
Larry,
See the thing is, as Bob pointed out, it sort of depends on whose living room the shooting took place.
So, who owned Fort Sumter?
By the way Vince and Mike….your constant ignoring of all my quotes by Lincoln HIMSELF are duly noted. You cant respond to them because you HAVE no answer for them!
“Larry,
I’m having a party. My wife is in the living room when an unruly guest declares that it’s his living room, and shoots my wife for trespassing, and then I and a few other guest subdue him.
Who’s the aggressor?”
I’m confused—how is this anywhere NEAR my analogy of a home invader. My entire point of my analogy was that someone was INVADING a home—–not someone who was a GUEST and began acting crazy. I will answer your question when your analogy is on the same planet as mine.
Mike, in your response there was something that I didnt see when you said:
“you’re going from the ridiculous to the sublime. Are you really likening the firing on Fort Sumpter to a home invasion? Really?”
I didnt see an answer to my question. Your posted 2 paragraphs and completely ignored my question. Are you saying NORTHERN troops were NOT AT Fort Sumter?? Then who were the SOUTHERNERS firing at? Their ghosts?
“Please, someone, tell Larry that the newly formed government of 1783 was superseded by the government established by the Constitution ratified in 1789.”
Are you saying the federal government created the States?? PLEASE tell me youre not saying that, because I can blow you away with facts. Are you saying the federal government came first??
Mikes……
Youse guys have had the benefit of Bush the III and Chris….Need I say more….Then again….You have have the wonderful adoring Governor of NY and Rep most recently….lol…..
If you want a Perry….You can have him…. Please if you want him gift wrapped….I’ll even put a bow on it…….
WRT to Buddha…..You gotta love him…..He speaks his mind and you know where he stands….From what I can tell both on and off of the Blawg he has good morals….a Stand up person…..What I said was meant to razz him only…… and then only put a little salt in the wound to see if he winced…
I just saw SWM and she brought me some Texas Pickles…..some call em Ghost Peppers….I will admit they have a bite… but it didn’t last very long….about 20 mins….I was worried dipping my finger in the sauce…but it didn’t burn it and the skin is still attached….Can someone find me a pepper that is hot…..
Back to the wife….You are blessed…..I screwed up in a great relationship…I know it…and for that I wish I could turn the clock back…really…..Keep her happy and she will keep you warm….and yes….it is most important that the heart is the warmest….part of the body…
Blouise,
Some never let facts get in the way of lets say….. proclivity to be perceived as infallible in logic and rhetoric….
I however love a good debate….Vince and I have been round and round on the issue of slavery….
Some can never admit that they haven’t a clue…..
Vince Treacy,
You confused me there for a moment when you wrote:
“The only difference between Texas any many other states was that Texas, unlike the others, was not a territory at the time of its admission, but then neither was Maine.”
So I had to go back to the books:
“Congress established Maine as the 23rd state under the Missouri Compromise of 1820. This arrangement allowed Maine to join the Union as a free state, with Missouri entering a year later as a slave state, thereby preserving the numerical balance between free and slave states in the nation.”
Maine was part of the state of Massachusetts until 1820 but the Republic of Texas was an independent nation that existed from 1836 to 1846.
Thus was not the Republic of Texas admitted as a State after being annexed as a nation? In August 1837, the Texan minister to the United States, submitted an annexation proposal to the Van Buren administration but withdrew its proposal because the administration was afraid that annexation would lead to war with Mexico and declined Texas’ proposal. Also, Lamar,president of Texas in 1838 was an opponent of annexation.
Then Polk came out in favor of annexation as he was a supporter of territorial expansion and was elected as President. Tyler, recognizing that the country now supported the annexation of the Republic of Texas presented a joint resolution (including an “ordinance of annexation”) before Polk took office. The resolution declared that Texas would be admitted as a state as long as it approved annexation by January 1 1846, that it could split itself up into four additional states, and that possession of the Republic’s public lands would shift to the state of Texas upon its admission. On 26 February 1845, six days before Polk took office, Congress passed the joint resolution (which included the “ordinance of annexation”).
In other words … Texas would be admitted as a State as long as it approved its annexation which it had to do because it was, at that time, an independent Nation.
So when you wrote: “The only difference between Texas any(and) many other states was that Texas, unlike the others, was not a territory at the time of its admission,” … there really was a difference in that no, it was not a territory but rather a completely independent nation named the Republic of Texas.
I realize that all this was cleaned up later on in the Constitutional acts you mentioned on the other thread.
“How is your health….How is Mrs. Spindell…It was kind of her to keep the Blawg informed of your status….Thank her again… Apparently she is quite intelligent…I recall reading she did the research for your procedure…You are a very lucky person, indeed.”
AY,
Thanks for asking. I’m doing well and yes I am a lucky man. As
long as it has nothing to do with riches or fame, I’ve been lucky all my life. Given that to me the things that matter are my family, friends and a better world, I can do without the riches or the fame.
As to Buddha inviting the trolls it is true that he challenged and challenges them. I don’t think though that it’s the reason they arrive. I believe that it’s a combination of certain types who think their baiting their hated “Libs” and the fact that people like the Koch Brothers pay for them to disrupt.
As for tootie at first I didn’t think she was a troll, but as her comments have multiplied and morphed into someone quite different than what she initially pretended to be, my feelings have changed. Perhaps even she is yet another incarnation of people we’ve seen before in past years, under different pseudonyms.
As for Texas I must admit that it’s one of the few states I’ve never been to. Despite the fact that I love Willie, Waylon and Bob Wills, there is a craziness in the way that many Texans portray themselves that puts me off. Perhaps though someday I’ll visit Austin, San Antonio and maybe even Lubbock. Of course Texas has much to be proud of, but they certainly have elected more crazy people, like your current Governor, than sane ones.
“I’m having a party. My wife is in the living room when an unruly guest declares that it’s his living room, and shoots my wife for trespassing, and then I and a few other guest subdue him.
Who’s the aggressor?”
Depends on whose living room it is.
Based on your fact pattern, how do I know the guest at your party isn’t letting you use his living room?
Blouise-
That’s why I have a metal detector at the door when I throw a party. Bring in the brownies- leave your roscoe at the door.
Gyges
1, February 12, 2011 at 1:09 pm
Larry,
I’m having a party. My wife is in the living room when an unruly guest declares that it’s his living room, and shoots my wife for trespassing, and then I and a few other guest subdue him.
Who’s the aggressor?
================================================
The caterer who made those funny tasting brownies! (I’m sorry …)
I will agree with you…You don’t know a God Damned thing about Texas History…. Which leads me to think maybe you project in other areas of postings….
Vince,
There you go…
Take for instance….I agree to purchase a car from you and you agree to sell it….Is not a contract made to purchase that particular car enforceable?
How about if I want to purchase a house with real estate from you…it is all agreed upon…and we agree….that it is for this property…..is that contract enforceable?
Say in the first example….you decided that you wanted the stereo back because you don’t like the station that I listen to and it was one that you had put in in….can you do that? Can you just take it….the deal is done……
What about the second example….I fulfilled my part of the bargain…. You unilaterally decide that I cannot use a particular part of that property….Can you do that…
Here is a good article on DiLorenzo. BTW, he is professor of economics, not history or law:
http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/education/bs-md-loyola-professor-hearing-20110211,0,1814458.story
Larry says: ” What you guys fail to comprehend is that the United States is not some consolidated entity, it is a Confederation of states, each state being free, independent and sovereign. I actually have the facts to back up this claim, it’s in the Constitution. When King George signed the peace treaty with our newly formed government, he didn’t sign it with “The United States” as a joined together entity, he signed it mentioning EACH INDIVIDUAL state.”
That was 1783.
But there was a different view expressed in 1787: “We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.”
So Larry takes the word of the tyrannical king of England over the people of the United States!
Please, someone, tell Larry that the newly formed government of 1783 was superseded by the government established by the Constitution ratified in 1789.
Vince Treacy-
I greatly appreciate your providing me with the citations of the two draft challenges. I will read them with great interest.
I don’t think we have seen the last of the draft. All it would take is for the North Koreans to come across the 38th parallel and take Seoul. A few good atrocity stories from the CIA, a couple of shots of dead American soldiers with their hands tied behind their backs and the American people will be screaming for the draft. I should have said “the American people who have no draft age sons…” Frankly, I don’t see Obama having the guts to veto a draft bill. Nor do I see any possibility of women being drafted. Just the usual victims- minorities, young men who can’t afford college, young men whose fathers aren’t Senators or Congressmen or millionaires. Cannon fodder. Same old story.