Congress, Justice, Politics, Religion, Society, Things That Tick Me Off

Is This The America That We Want?

 

Submitted by Lawrence Rafferty, (rafflaw) Guest Blogger

Over the past few weeks and months, we have read repeatedly about how politicians are upset that the government is doing nothing about jobs.  We hear it from the Right and we hear it from the Left, but the unemployment rate is still around 9.0% with many out of work Americans no longer looking for work.   With this background, I was incensed when I read about a Minnesota legislative proposal to bar citizens on public aid from having more than $20.00 cash in their pocket at any time!

“Minnesota Republicans are pushing legislation that would make it a crime for people on public assistance to have more $20 in cash in their pockets any given month. This represents a change from their initial proposal, which banned them from having any money at all.  On March 15, Angel Buechner of the Welfare Rights Committee testified in front of the House Health and Human Services Reform Committee on House File 171. Buechner told committee members, “We would like to address the provision that makes it illegal for MFIP [one of Minnesota’s welfare programs] families to withdraw cash from the cash portion of the MFIP grant – and in fact, appears to make it illegal for MFIP families to have any type of money at all in their pockets. How do you expect people to take care of business like paying bills such as lights, gas, water, trash and phone?” ‘ Crooks and Liars  

I know of other states that require that unemployment benefits be deposited into debit card accounts, but the worker can get cash from that card.  Minnesota seems to think that $25.00 in one’s pocket is an indication that they are wasting the public aid money!  These same politicians have no problem in granting Billions of dollars in tax give aways to the wealthy and to corporations, but God forbid an unemployed person, or a disabled person who might have $30.00 in their pocket!

I wonder why Minnesota and other states are requiring that public aid benefits be deposited into a debit card account?  Could it be that the fees banks charge for the use of the debit card has something to do with this legislative nightmare?  Maybe if we follow the money, we will find some Minnesota legislators who are receiving contributions from the Bank lobby.  How will this Draconian anti-cash proposal be enforced?  Will unemployed people be stopped in the street and frisked?  Will there be a “Cash Swat Team” roaming the streets of Minnesota searching to find those pesky cash spending poor people?  This very same legislation will even make it illegal for the debit card to be used outside of the state of Minnesota.  Firedoglake   

This attack on the Poor and unemployed is not just limited to Minnesota.  We have seen the unemployment benefits attacked in Washington, D.C. and in states like Missouri.  Missouri is cutting off the benefits of the unemployed who go beyond the magical deadline of 79 weeks.  “Because the Senate failed to act, the extended benefits program will expire March 27, and the final checks will go out April 2.  The state Department of Labor estimates 11,700 Missourians were receiving extended benefits in early March, while about 6,500 more were nearing the 79-week cutoff.  About 950 unemployed workers become eligible for the extended benefits each week, according to department officials.  But Lembke and other fiscal hawks argued that the state should reject the federal money and cut off benefits at 79 weeks to protest government spending and large federal deficits.” McClatchey  Here they are cutting off the benefits of people who are desperate and out of work and these politicians claim that they are doing it to “protest” the fiscal policies in Washington!

These are just a couple of the examples of the assault on the poor and unemployed of Minnesota and Missouri.  But it is happening in Wisconsin, Ohio, Florida, New Hampshire and Maine and all over the country.  Even though the Banksters get millions in bonuses and the wealthy get huge tax breaks from the Federal government and many states, the politicians keep talking about fiscal responsibility.  Some have even called the long-term unemployed lazy and claim that they are satisfied with staying home and receiving the governmental pittance that is called public aid.  Crooks and Liars   I just can’t remember a time when being poor and getting laid off from your job because the corporation that you work for has outsourced your job, was considered a heinous crime. 

We have politicians in our country who have violated laws against torturing detainees in our War on Terror, but yet they are making millions writing books and going on TV to claim that they did nothing wrong.  Why are they allowed to make millions and to not suffer the slings and arrows of a governmental intrusion into their lives, but yet if you lose your job and can’t find work in this Depression, and you have $25.00 in your pocket, you are subject to arrest?  Who are these people who decide that the wealthy need every break possible, but that the poor are to be mistrusted?

I would like to paraphrase a question that was asked of Senator Joseph McCarthy in a Congressional hearing in the 1950’s and direct it to the legislators who are behind this affront against the poor and middle class. ”Have you no Shame”?   Some of these same politicians claim that this is a Christian country.  If that is true, I think Christ is crying tears of blood today.

46 thoughts on “Is This The America That We Want?”

  2. Buckeye: I do write some, and am working on a book on PTSD right now. I write a lot of pages of reports, which eats into my time to write for fun. My transcription company once told me that I was the most prolific of their clients. I was generating approximately 250,000 words per month. Since then I have slowed down some, but not stopped by any stretch of the imagination.

    As for Brian, I have no idea what has happened to him. His absence is conspicuous, since there are not as many disruptions of the discussions. He says he has an autistic spectrum disorder, and judging from his rigidity, that sounds reasonable.

  3. “I appreciate your clarifications”

    The clarification above was meant to be to a longer comment containing links to sources, but which is awaiting moderation. On the chance that it will appear, I shall try not to repeat what it says.

    “I think you may want to take a second look at your claim that most of the people who use these cards are part of the SNAP program. There are thousands, if not millions of people who are on unemployment, but are not part of the SNAP program.”

    The benefits H.F. No. 171 affects are under chapters 256D and 256J, which are currently disbursed via either direct deposit or a state-issued EBT card. A majority choose EBT. The EBT system is the only way supplemental nutritional assistance (food stamps) are delivered.

    Unemployment insurance disbursement is regulated by chapter 268. Recipients cannot use an EBT card to receive or access payouts. They may receive disbursements via direct deposit or through a Relia-Card® VISA® debit card offered by US Bank. Beneficiaries who opt to use the US-Bank-issued debit card are subject to applicable bank surcharges and overdraft fees. No regulations exist on when, where or how money accessed on this card may be used. No does the proposed bill affect this.

  5. It is my firm belief, and on this point I do not waver, that “dignity” is vital to any intercourse between government and governed. Power is the issue and the government holds the majority of it. When government deals with the governed, government must always grant the governed their dignity.

    This is especially so for those seeking financial assistance from the government in order to survive. Yes, I am referring to the poor and to those who find themselves in precarious financial straights due to job lose, illness, etc.

    I view this bill as an instrument that strips the governed of their dignity and adds insult to the indignity of being unemployed, sick, or simply poor. I have no respect at all for any individual who supports such inhumane treatment of others.

  6. OS

    Thanks for the clarification. I didn’t catch the idea that it was the DK site and not this one that you were referring to.

    Your work sounds very interesting and there is surely fertile ground in the internet world. Are you going to publish? Be sure and let us know.

    I always loved psychology in school and used to read a good bit outside, also. I find nothing so fascinating as “normal” people doing unsual things. I predict the Tea Party will fill books for many decades.

    Just curious. What is your take on Dr. Brian? He’s been absent for a while, unless he’s still on that thread of a month ago that I can’t get to because my computer goes crazy if I try to access it.

  7. OS,
    Well said on the bank fee issue. Thanks to all for your spirited comments. The thrust of this article was to show one more angle that the Right is using to demonize the poor and unemployed. Why else would the bill not allow cash? If there is a massive problem with most members in the program to drink and smoke their benefits away. Frank and Buckeye made a good point earlier that some of these people on public aid do indeed live in a “cash world” and do not have accounts. I also don’t like the idea that the bill specifically allows the vendors to require a photo ID when the card is used.
    Blouise provided us with a good background of the MFAP program and OS provided some good links.
    Nate, you are correct that the banksters and their speculating is driving up the cost of food, but it is also driving upo the cost of gasoline. In the words of Dick Cheney, “Big Time”!
    JImM47
    I appreciate your clarifications, but the proposed bill does not provide for anyone to opt out for the their own accounts. If they did, the State couldn’t try to enforce its disgusting restrictions on cash withdrawn and where it can be used. This proposed legislation is part of the Right’s plan to balance budgets on the backs of the poor and the middle class. One merely has to look at Gov. Pawlenty’s record as Governor and how well the wealthy were taken care of, to see what this kind of bill is intended to do.
    My experience in Illinois did not have the same restrictions that this bill proposes. The fees that the banks charge on those who use the debit card are still in play here in Illinois,depending on which banks you withdraw from. I think you may want to take a second look at your claim that most of the people who use these cards are part of the SNAP program. There are thousands, if not millions of people who are on unemployment, but are not part of the SNAP program. Thanks again for your comments.

  8. One reason why the poor get poorer; banks speculating on the cost of food, making huge profits by driving up the cost, and literally making millions of people not able to afford their daily bread.

    http://www.theecologist.org/News/news_round_up/542538/goldman_sachs_makes_1_billion_profit_on_food_price_speculation.html

    And a Goldman Sachs apologist.

    http://www2.goldmansachs.com/our-firm/on-the-issues/viewpoint/viewpoint-articles/letter-harpers.html

  9. Speaking of pie fights, here is an epic pie fight. Headlines in Wisconsin report that Justice David Prosser called State Supreme Court Chief Justice Shirley Abrahamson a “bitch” and went on to say that he would “destroy” her. Prosser is running for re-election against Assistant Attorney General Shirley Abrahamson. It has been Prosser’s race to lose, and it looks as if he is working hard on that front.

    http://www.jsonline.com/news/statepolitics/118310479.html

    Bob Johnson has pulled together some additional information and links.

    http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/03/20/958283/-Wisconsin-GOP-Supreme-Court-Justice-Prosser-calls-Chief-Justice,-A-bitch

  10. Ummmm….. too early in the morning and I have not had my first cup of coffee yet. I mean HIGH registration numbers, not low.

    ************************

    Buckeye, you write: “…charges for using a public debit card should be eliminated. Surely the banks can figure out a way to do that.”

    That is what we all wish, but I am also cynical, a condition brought on by watching the professional criminal class of bankers finding every way possible to screw the little guy. They must sit in their conference rooms day after day, scheming on how they can bleed as many fees as possible out of the most vulnerable.

  11. Buckeye: My specific reference to trolls in the comment up thread that linked to this story on DKos was that this particular story and others like it seem to be attracting some rather skillful trolls.

    http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/03/19/957919/-The-Koch-Roaches-are-Handing-the-WI-Baton-to-a-New-Astro-Turf-Clan

    Some of the trollish behavior on DKos appeared to me to be more subtle than usual. New users, with low registration numbers, come into the discussion thread and raise irrelevant and off topic issues without being blatant about it. In other words, not being rude or referring to other users as “libtards” or worse, or use language that would cause Trusted Users (TU) to hide-rate the comments. Different class of troll methinks. Simply disrupting the discussion with nit picking rather than start a pie fight. Not just in that particular story and following discussion, but I have seen more of that kind of behavior lately in other stories on other blogs as well.

    In case you are wondering from what skill set I am coming; behavioral analysis and profiling is what I have been doing for a living for the past four decades. I love my work.

  12. Geez Blouise

    Never apologize. 🙂 You’re very gracious. I think my reaction, I can’t speak for others, to rafflaw’s “..if you lose your job and can’t find work in this Depression, and you have $25.00 in your pocket, you are subject to arrest? ” was What? Who says it’s a crime? What’s the penalty? Which is the way I read jim’s response but I can see how “quite inflammatory” can be, well, inflammatory and considered an attack.

    Since I’m recently very sensitive to firedoglake’s take on things I simply don’t go there anymore, but that’s another thread. And the other links didn’t get to the law either. I like to look at the sources in any articles and it took anon’s comment to actually get to the changes in law being discussed – and the first time I tried that link I ended up in never never land; don’t know why. I was also aprehensive since no newspaper source could be found.

    Long story short, I can see why they are trying to prohibit cash being used for alcohol and tobbacco since those items have no value for either welfare clients or their children, indeed they are detrimental.

    I think the fraud clause must be to facilitate catching those who are actually defrauding the system big time and certainly care should be taken that the remuneration section not be abused by petty claims.

    In general, I think rafflaw is correct in being incensed about how and why welfare clients are treated as children who don’t know how to conduct their own business. That may be true in part about the professional welfare class, but in these days all welfare systems are being overwhelmed with people that know very well how to handle their finances, but are simply caught in the current depression. And as frank and others point out, poor people live in a cash world and any charges for using a public debit card should be eliminated. Surely the banks can figure out a way to do that.

    rafflaw

    You are a kind hearted soul who hates to see people being browbeaten and I admire you for it. I am aware that I am getting too cynical in my old age and too distrustful – I wish it were otherwise. Keep on keeping on.

  13. Clarification: A minority of beneficiaries in Minnesota to the named programs do currently choose to use direct deposit into a private bank account, as you describe doing in Illinois. But currently most choose to use state-issued EBT cards as I describe above, and this bill would require them to.

    Additionally, one of your commenters keeps stressing the lack of any provision regulating bank fees with respect to EBT cards. What are these supposed fees and who is supposedly charging them? The EBT cards are not issued by a bank, they are issued by an arm of the state. So there are no “fees” on the holding the “account.” This bill would practically remove the ability to use ATMs, so those fees are minimal (and are the same ones anyone else with an ATM, debit or credit card). Transaction fees at a point of sale are theoretically possible, but in many years of never carrying cash in Minnesota, I can’t say I’ve ever seen it. Additionally, federal law already makes charges on EBT cards illegal, when issued under the SNAP program, which most are.

  14. Buckeye,

    Read the posts, then read the actual bill as it sits waiting for discussion and a vote. Note the “fraud” clause and then try and find a clause that limits the amount a bank may charge to the account for usage or transactions. Then take note of the changes from 30 day to 90 day. And finally … no more than $20 a month in cash?

    https://www.revisor.mn.gov/bin/bldbill.php?bill=H0171.1.html&session=ls87

    The main thrust of the original post addressed the “unfairness” and there is a ton of it in that bill.

    I went to the site noted above and to the site for MFIP to find what exactly the bill was addressing:

    http://www.dhs.state.mn.us/main/idcplg?IdcService=GET_DYNAMIC_CONVERSION&dDocName=id_004112&RevisionSelectionMethod=LatestReleased

    “The Minnesota Family Investment Program (MFIP)
    The Minnesota Family Investment Program, or MFIP, is the state’s welfare reform program for low-income families with children. MFIP helps families move to work and focuses on helping families. It includes both cash and food assistance. When most families first apply for cash assistance, they will participate in the Diversionary Work Program, or DWP. This is a four month program that helps parents go immediately to work rather than receive welfare.

    Some families may be referred to MFIP when they first apply for assistance or after they finish four months of DWP. MFIP helps families transition to economic stability. Parents are expected to work and are supported in working. Most families can get cash assistance for only 60 months.”

    Okay … now I have a pretty good idea what is going on and I can agree with the thrust of rufflaw’s comments.

    Now Buckeye … my response to Otteray Scribe on the troll issue was really my opinion of JimM4’s attack on rafflaw’s article which, after research as noted, I had determined was correct in its intention and with which I could agree. However, I was not sensitive enough to your posts and can see why and how I gave offense. For that lack of sensitivity and forethought, I sincerely apologize.

  15. Blouise

    et tu? What trollish behavior do you see? If free speech and opposing opinions are not to be tolerated on this site, please do make it so plain that even I can understand it. Thanks.

  16. Many poor people do not have bank accounts because of the fees – you know money the bank charges for using your account. It costs poor people too much so they live in a cash world. This already makes them victims of check cashing scams and eliminates them every having a decent credit rating. Now the kind Republicans of Minnesota want to make it even more difficult for them to pay their bills – which they have to do in cash because they don’t have checks.

    When Republicans say they want ‘small government’ they don’t mean of little size, they mean small as in low or inferior in station or quality as in “he is a small man” flinty and unthinking.

  18. I had seen variations of this story before. I have heard a number of anecdotal accounts of arrest warrants being issued by law enforcement to collect debts for professional debt collectors.

    Bob Sloan, whose profession is consultant to the prison industry has an interesting discussion of the links to the Koch and AlEC cartels. A modern variant of debtor’s prisons may once again be on the horizon if the banksters have their way.

    http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/03/19/957959/-Slave-LaborThe-new-Debtors-Prison-conceptALEC-and-KOCH-Industries

  19. rafflaw

    Thanks. That link didn’t work for me the first time.

    Otteray Scribe

    I’m seeing no trolls here, just questions that I also had and I’m definitely not a professional troll. Since we’ve had other problems with reputable sources not being cited here, it’s not to be wondered at if, when this post did not link to the law itself, questions were asked.

    Maybe we should just say aye to everything and shut up otherwise? I’m sure that would be more convenient than having to see trolls under every comment.

  20. I saw a post by a disabled man who finally got approved for SS disability who had to pay BoA ten bucks in order to get his ‘debit card’.
    Thats right Bank of America scrounged ten bucks from a disabled man.

    No. they have no shame. none.

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