The Idaho House just passed a sweeping anti-abortion bill that grants no exceptions for rape, incest, severe fetal abnormality or the mental or psychological health of the mother. As if to avoid any question of the religious basis for the measure, the sponsor state Rep. Brent Crane, R-Nampa, explained to the House that this was God’s will.
Senate Bill 1165 bans abortion after 20 weeks on grounds of fetal pain. Crane invoked the “hand of the Almighty” and “His ways are higher than our ways. He has the ability to take difficult, tragic, horrific circumstances and then turn them into wonderful examples.” The measure passed on a 54-14 vote and now heads to the governor’s desk.
These measures have proven costly to the state. In the 1990s, the legislator passed an anti-abortion law and “spent nearly three-quarters of a million dollars” unsuccessfully defending the law.
Here is the information on Crane from the House website:
Born 07/02/1974 in Nampa ID; graduated in 1992 from Nampa Christian High School, received a B.A. in Political Science with emphasis in Public Administration from Boise State University 2005; Protestant; Vice President of Crane Alarm Service; family: wife Rochenda, son Keaton and daughter Riley.
Source: Spokesman
Swarthmore,
“Republicans are willing to shut the whole government down over Planned Parenthood.”
I suspected it was going to come down to this … will John of Orange bend to the whims of the teabaggers or will he bend to the will of common sense? Time will tell …
The link didn’t say anything in regard to NPR, which was another bone of contention – have you heard whether the Dems caved on that funding issue?
Trojan,
“I think we can conclude that both major parties in this country are drunk with power. Wars, bailouts, stimulus.”
I agree – but, I believe that while some government spending isn’t good (wars, particularly Iraq, bank bailouts – they caused the mess, they should have bailed themselves out), I believe some government spending is good (stimulus – as many economists have concluded, the recession would have been far worse without it).
But, much more could be saved by cutting defense spending as opposed to cutting Head Start, and other services and agencies people rely on, especially in this economic climate.
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Jim,
“people are to help people. God never commanded government to do it. this is where liberals miss the mark. They quote scripture about feeding the hungry etc. but fail to mention that is a people responsibility and not a forced government one.”
Since the basis for this country’s laws (ie, government) are based on the Constitution, not the bible, your point is moot.
http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2011/04/reids-final-offer-to-gop-drop-planned-parenthood-rider-or-cause-a-government-shutdown.php?ref=fpa Republicans are willing to shut the whole government down over Planned Parenthood.
How About Those Trojans 1, April 8, 2011 at 7:53 am
Tony C:
I think you know what I mean. So I take it you would sanction the passing of a law making abortion illegal as it is the taking of a human life?
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honey you may as well pass a law that says pregnancy is illegal as it causes the taking of a human life…the mothers. Pregnancy does not happen like catching a cold…and Adam is/was a coward….
How About Those Trojans 1, April 8, 2011 at 7:59 am
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It has everything to do with supporting them. Every pregnancy is a loss of time, health and resource in the mothers life….it is of paramount importance that it be discernably supportable and likely that the pregnancy can be carried to term without loss or failure later on. Pregnancy is a beautiful and necessary risk….and it is the mother that bears ALL of the burden. That men attack the mother for ANY reason is nothing more than a display of selfish stupidity on thier part. Supporting women and that time in thier lives will do more to lessen the NEED for abortions….and thereby the occurrance of them.
SwM,
Pelosi is right … again
http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2011/04/07/pelosi-there-is-a-war-on-women/
@Jim: I didn’t avoid your point, you have no point. You are a liar that claims the Bible says whatever you want it to say. If Moses commands his soldiers to give up their property to the poor, they do it: Moses is their government, and can have them killed or imprisoned if they disobey his command. Where is your point? Where does the Bible say anything remotely like what you claim it says? Jesus told you, “Render unto Caesar what is Caesar’s,” talking specifically about taxes and the gold coins with Caesar’s likeness stamped upon them.
The bills and coins you own bear the pictures of heroes of the US Government. So render unto the US Government what is the US Government’s.
You guys can start at Numbers 31:25, “And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying,”
The particular “Lord’s Tribute” (a Heave offering) is a blood sacrifice on the altar, usually accomplished by cutting the throat of the living sacrificial animal. Then some portion of the animal is cut out (such as the shoulder) and raised by the priest over his head to the altar, thus the designation “heave”. In this case the living animals were the thirty two virgins in 31:40. Non-living “heave items” like jewels and money are simply donations to the priests which are also raised over their head to the altar; after which the items become their personal property.
So Praise the Lord for slaughtering defenseless women and children!
Tony C
You avoided my point on governments role v. the peoples role. Thanks for proving my point!
@Jim: All I can say is that you are so bamboozled by others, preying upon your fear of personal extinction, that you cannot read what is front of your face, without another person you can appeal to for spin that makes this horror palatable to you. Of course it isn’t hard to make horror palatable to you, because the alternative is facing your own existential cowardice.
@Trojan: Ditto. Get it out and read it, the King James version will suffice. Start around Numbers 31:20, if you are short of time.
Tony C
All I can say is you truly do not understand old testament theology. A study of the Israel history teaches that when they were obedient to God they thrived economically but when they turned to Baal and other Gods, the punishment of God came on them. Who am I to question God? All I know is that his ways are better than my ways. If our government would follow his plan then we would not be in in this financial mess. He belives we should be the head and not the tail, then lender not the borrower, yet our government operates the other way around. Also, people are to help people. God never commanded government to do it. this is where liberals miss the mark. They quote scripture about feeding the hungry etc. but fail to mention that is a people responsibility and not a forced government one.
Tony C:
Moses did not sacrifice 32 virgins, he just killed women who had been with men. It was way more than 32, at least in the version I read.
@Jim: No I haven’t misinterpreted Numbers 31, yes I have read all of it and the entire Bible, I am an atheist after all (and American atheists are far more likely to have read the entire thing than are American Christians; in fact many American atheists are former Christians for precisely this reason: They began reading the Bible with reverence, and finished it with disdain.)
It is you that denies the plain language of Numbers 31. Moses sacrificed 32 young virgin females on the altar, to the Lord, as a blood sacrifice.
Plunder or not, that was the form of income for Moses; conquering other people and stealing their shit, and he charged a 50% tax to those that did the work in order to support those that did not.
There is no misinterpretation, there is only you denying the reality of what is written in a book you cannot attack.
@Trojan: So I take it you would sanction the passing of a law making abortion illegal as it is the taking of a human life?
??? Hell no. I don’t know how you got THAT from what I wrote. “Human life” is too imprecise a term; a mole or cancerous tumor is human life, and I have no problem removing either one. The question is personhood.
I do not think a fetus is a person until it has a functioning cortex and amygdala. I believe that happens somewhere in the second trimester.
I support abortions at will during the first three months of pregnancy, after that I have no problem with abortions for medical reasons (severe developmental abnormalities, endangerment of the mother, etc), although I think I’d prefer a jury of randomly chosen doctors to weigh in on the necessity of a very late term abortion. To me there is no difference in human rights between a fetus at 8 months and a fetus one at 9 months.
But NO, I would not outlaw abortion, because I do not think an early term fetus is a person; it is a growth that looks like a person but does not have the equipment to BE a person.
I am also in favor of discontinuing life support or resuscitation efforts on brain-dead people for the same reason: They look like people but they do not have the equipment to BE a person.
Tony C
You totally misinterpreted Numbers 31. You have to read all of it. Also, this is dealing with plunder.
Tom:
why do you think people adopt babies from China and Russia? There are not enough American babies to adopt.
It has nothing to do with being able to support them. From what I can tell the majority of abortions are done for elective reasons, very few are done for rape, incest or the life of the mother.
Tony C:
I think you know what I mean. So I take it you would sanction the passing of a law making abortion illegal as it is the taking of a human life?
Stamford Liberal:
“I’m going to take an educated guess that you do realize that the 14 trillion also include the Bush Admin’s two unfunded wars…”
Yes of course and also the Tarp bailout. But I think if you look at the numbers, Obama has spent more in his 2 years than Bush did in his 8.
I think we can conclude that both major parties in this country are drunk with power. Wars, bailouts, stimulus.
@Trojans: I don’t think government should legislate morality.
On the contrary, all laws are there to legislate morality. Why isn’t murder legal? Why isn’t theft legal? Why isn’t slavery legal? Why isn’t rape legal? Why isn’t arson legal? Why can’t we just have a change of heart on a contract?
Because we collectively think doing these things is wrong.
If you want to introduce some level of abstraction (like “property rights” or “natural rights” or “God’s Word”) to confuse the issue for yourself, feel free. But whatever justification you have for that level of abstraction will also boil down to morality: your claim that something like murder for personal gain or rule by force is just wrong. Or, in past arguments I have had, that some effect of these prohibitions is “good,” it advances an economy, or prevents chaos, or promotes equality or self-reliance or whatever. But what makes those inherently good?
Ultimately we are going to come down to something that is inherently good versus something inherently evil, and such distinctions are made by our moral system, some of which is inherent. We have an inborn inclination to congregate into packs; we are social animals.
If you don’t believe that, please consider how it is possible for ordinary citizens to judge laws, and why they do. Survey some egregious made up law on the street, and people will instantly assess it as wrong, and some will grow incensed at the thought of it. People expect laws to be fair and prevent exploitation or harm or cheating, not promote it.
Ultimately all laws are enforcing morality; prohibiting something we find inherently unfair or harmful because we all think unfair and harmful is “bad.” So the only question is balancing the repression of some acts using laws with the oppression of citizens by other citizens that gets created due to a lack of a law.