Former Pennsylvania Senator Rick Santorum has stepped up to respond to John McCain’s recent denouncing of both waterboarding and the effort to claim that our torture program led to the killing of Bin Laden. Santorum told an interview that McCain, a torture survivor, just doesn’t understand interrogation and then gave a frightening defense of torture that would have made Pol Pot blush.
Santorum articulates his version of Dr. Strangelove’s “How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Bomb Torture.”
Here is the exchange:
Q: Now did the bin Laden killing cause you to hope that the enhanced interrogation debate returns center stage about whether or not, and when such techniques ought to be used?
RS: Well, not only that, but the first thing that should happen, Hugh, was that the President of the United States should have stepped forward and said we are going to stop this, well, potential prosecution of those within the intelligence community who were involved in the enhanced interrogation program. That should have been step one, going to Eric Holder and saying enough is enough, we’re not doing this anymore. We need to give these guys medals, not prosecute them. Number two, he should have stepped forward and said look, I was wrong, the enhanced interrogation program did work, it did produce my greatest foreign policy success. And I’m going to admit when I was wrong, and we’re going to look at how we’re going to redeploy this under obviously different rules and regulations, since of course the Obama administration told the enemy what we were doing in the previous enhanced interrogation programs.Q: Now your former colleague, John McCain, said look, there’s no record, there’s no evidence here that these methods actually led to the capture or the killing of bin Laden. Do you disagree with that? Or do you think he’s got an argument?
RS: I don’t, everything I’ve read shows that we would not have gotten this information as to who this man was if it had not been gotten information from people who were subject to enhanced interrogation. And so this idea that we didn’t ask that question while Khalid Sheikh Mohammed was being waterboarded, he doesn’t understand how enhanced interrogation works. I mean, you break somebody, and after they’re broken, they become cooperative. And that’s when we got this information. And one thing led to another, and led to another, and that’s how we ended up with bin Laden. That seems to be clear from all the information I read. Maybe McCain has better information than I do, but from what I’ve seen, it seems pretty clear that but for these cooperative witnesses who were cooperative as a result of enhanced interrogations, we would not have gotten bin Laden.
So Santorum believes that torture is now the “first thing” that we should do with detainees and that we should embrace a practice defined as a war crime under treaties that we signed and enforced against others.
Santorum simply repeats the false assertion that, over the course of over 180 torture sessions, Khalid Sheikh Mohammed gave up the name of the courier that led to Bin Laden. It is not enough that the Director of the CIA denied that fact or that, under international law, it does not matter if torture works — it is still a war crime.
I am pretty sure McCain “understand[s] how enhanced interrogation works” from a unique perspective. Santorum was a toddler when McCain was being worked over in Vietnam.
Santorum’s new expertise on torture is wrapped up in the simplest terms: “I mean, you break somebody, and after they’re broken, they become cooperative.” Wow, that is insightful. I am not sure how McCain missed it. “You break somebody, and after they’re broken, they become cooperative.” While Santorum bills himself as the choice of the faithful for the White House, he offered the most amoral defense of torture that entirely ignores decades of struggle against war crimes. It is entirely consequentialist view of torture: if it works, it must be good.
The greatest irony is that Obama’s cynical calculus on torture has produced no positive returns. He has blocked any investigation or prosecution of Americans for torture but is still be accused of prosecuting CIA employees rather than “giving them medals.”
I am not sure where this is heading but it is not a good direction. Now, Gingrich and others will have to move even further to the right of Santorum. Certainly, no one can be to the left on the torture issue. Next we will hear Santorum does understand torture because he has not called for public torture events. Once you cross the moral Rubicon and embrace torture, there is a world of amoral opportunities.
Source: Washington Post
Jonathan Turley
It’s not hard to understand Santorum’s position, as he is a being of pure evil.
Really, Sanatorium? McCain doesn’t “understand” torture? I don’t have a whole lot of respect for McCain, but I certainly respect him for his service and what he had to endure while staying at the Hanoi Hilton.
Well, I say we water board Sanatorium’s fetus in a jar and see how long it takes for Sanatorium to break before he starts spouting off his usual psycho-babble. I doubt this coward would last five seconds.
Unjustly charged, held, and/or captured.*
Kay:
I can tell you this, if I was a captive and someone water-boarded me, the fear of it would probably give me a heart-attack.
And I am confident I couldn’t survive a taser shot either. Everyone reacts differently. The danger my husband can endure and remain calm is COMPLETELY at a different level than the danger I can endure while remaining calm.
In other words people respond differently and begin to panic at different times (some immediately, some never, and some anytime in between). And that is what I see in the murky interpretation of the statute you posted.
This is why anything which even hints of torture should be considered torture and avoided, and the most scrupulous care be given to anyone deprived of their liberty to leave when they so choose. It has to cover the truly wicked individual in order for it to always apply to the innocent who is unjustly charged.
Tootie:
Democrats having virtue is a myth. They prosecuted every war in the 20th Century, with the exception of the Panama Invasion & Desert Storm, which aren’t technically wars since only one side was shooting.
The reality is this predatory system we live under is a One Party Kleptocracy with 2 factions bickering over how to best screw over working people.
The proof of this thesis is the fact that every unpopular measure, like NAFTA, Wars, & Bank Bailouts get rammed through with “BiPartisan” ease.
One can no more defend torture than that
of a adult beating a child / its simply
ridiculas / that one having to reminded
americans the foundations of freedom of
democracy were/placed for a removeal of
torture slavery injustice / in bringing
mercy compassion equality /equal rights
to play/making by far more a just world.
The problem being americans no longer in
seeing themselves as mere mortals / they
be Gods / above the law /the law applies
not unto them / they are faultless / the
defenders of freedom defending democracy.
The realiyt / the american people having
lost their elgin marbles/in two terms of
republican govt // republicans abandoned
international law/domestic law/ stripped
the people of all rights/ then proceeded
on a campaign of murder terror / in such
illegal invasions of nations// a setting
up of puppet govts / in the process many
hundreds of thousands killed / being man
/ woman/ as child/none being shown mercy.
Making matters worse the republicans did
not win the election puting them in govt
yet through voting fraud / combined with
an corupt supreme court ruling then were
called election winners /Bush /president.
An president whom /annointed himself the
leader of a holy crusade against muslims
resuting with human slaughter / bringing
rivers of tears/bringing rivers of blood.
Its realy such time /the american people
return to their senses /that there a end
to the killing /in the justifing torture
it is for all in giving their support to
OBAMA & HILLARY the democrat party / t a
time looking to a future/in one of peace.
The return of domestic laws giving people
some rights / they they may control govts.
The return of international law / respect
for other nations / where lifes in having
some value / that they are not added unto
the long list of an already missing /dead.
The republicans in office did grave damage
worldwide /it’s be for the democrats / now
in office /in putting matters right / thus
making amends for the greater /wrongs done.
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/18/usc_sec_18_00002340—-000-.html
TITLE 18 > PART I > CHAPTER 113C > § 2340
§ 2340. Definitions
How Current is This?
As used in this chapter—
(1) “torture” means an act committed by a person acting under the color of law specifically intended to inflict severe physical or mental pain or suffering (other than pain or suffering incidental to lawful sanctions) upon another person within his custody or physical control;
(2) “severe mental pain or suffering” means the prolonged mental harm caused by or resulting from—
(A) the intentional infliction or threatened infliction of severe physical pain or suffering;
(B) the administration or application, or threatened administration or application, of mind-altering substances or other procedures calculated to disrupt profoundly the senses or the personality;
(C) the threat of imminent death; or
(D) the threat that another person will imminently be subjected to death, severe physical pain or suffering, or the administration or application of mind-altering substances or other procedures calculated to disrupt profoundly the senses or personality; and
(3) “United States” means the several States of the United States, the District of Columbia, and the commonwealths, territories, and possessions of the United States.
NOTES:
Source
(Added Pub. L. 103–236, title V, § 506(a), Apr. 30, 1994, 108 Stat. 463; amended Pub. L. 103–415, § 1(k), Oct. 25, 1994, 108 Stat. 4301; Pub. L. 103–429, § 2(2), Oct. 31, 1994, 108 Stat. 4377; Pub. L. 108–375, div. A, title X, § 1089, Oct. 28, 2004, 118 Stat. 2067.)
Amendments
2004—Par. (3). Pub. L. 108–375 amended par. (3) generally. Prior to amendment, par. (3) read as follows: “ ‘United States’ includes all areas under the jurisdiction of the United States including any of the places described in sections 5 and 7 of this title and section 46501 (2) of title 49.”
1994—Par. (1). Pub. L. 103–415 substituted “within his custody” for “with custody”.
Par. (3). Pub. L. 103–429 substituted “section 46501 (2) of title 49” for “section 101(38) of the Federal Aviation Act of 1958 (49 App. U.S.C. 1301 (38))”.
Effective Date
Section 506(c) of Pub. L. 103–236 provided that: “The amendments made by this section [enacting this chapter] shall take effect on the later of—
“(1) the date of enactment of this Act [Apr. 30, 1994]; or
“(2) the date on which the United States has become a party to the Convention Against Torture and Other Cruel, Inhuman or Degrading Treatment or Punishment.” [Convention entered into Force with respect to United States Nov. 20, 1994, Treaty Doc. 100–20.]
Karl:
Your summary and report is frightfully sad and shocking. NATO is out of control and certainly without any lawful reason to be bombing anyone in Libya.
Obama should be impeached for it. I campaigned (on the internet) for the impeachment of George Bush before the 2008 election when GOPers were in charge in DC. It would have given the chance for the Democrats to prove they were genuine in their complaints about Bush and given the Republicans a chance to prove they were as concerned about moral issues as they claim to be. And I believe they would have won the next election if they got Bush impeached.
Of course it never happened.
And now it is the reverse. If the Democrats are as virtuous as they claim to be (if they ever claim such a thing) they would start impeachment hearings against Obama. And if the Republicans are as sincere about their criticism of Obama as they say, they will prove it by helping to impeach him.
Of course it will never happen.
This is because both sides are thoroughly and hopelessly corrupt. Ethically and morally and in every way imaginable.
Except for Ron and Rand Paul.
“One of the most horrible features of war is that all the war-propaganda, all the screaming and lies and hatred, comes invariably from people who are not fighting.”
—George Orwell, Homage to Catalonia, 1938
“Propaganda is to a democracy what the bludgeon is to a totalitarian state.”
—Noam Chomsky, Media Control: The Spectacular Achievements of Propaganda, 1997
http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2011/05/bachmann-on-2012-decision-we-may-move-that-up-video.php?ref=fpb
Clearly Santorum is as morally depraved as he believes left-wingers are.
IF, let me repeat that, IF we are at war, as Santorum claims why are captives NOT in a POW camp where the Geneva Conventions would be applied?
Applied not merely for the sake of the captives, but for our own reputation as a virtuous people which Santorum thinks makes us superior to the people we are “fighting”.
“Once you cross the Rubicon and embrace torture, there is a world of opportunities.” -Jonathan Turley
And we are now living in a world of almost-anything-goes — a “brave new world” of opportunities.
Well Rick Santorum … As you sow so shall you reap …
Speaking of war crimes, on May 19 the war against Libya will reach its 60-day mark. On that date this war will be in explicit violation of the War Powers Act.
The War Powers Act is a U.S. law that grew out of the struggle against the war in Vietnam. It requires a president involved in a military conflict lasting longer than 60 days to come before Congress for authorization to continue the war.
Knowing that this war is immoral, illegal and based on lies, the Obama administration has refused to address the reasons behind initiating yet another war after years of death and destruction in Afghanistan, Pakistan and Iraq.
In the past 57 days of a war that was promoted as a “humanitarian intervention” to enforce a “no-fly zone,” the U.S. and NATO have conducted more than 2,500 bombing missions.
A May 13 NATO bombing killed 11 Islamic religious leaders and injured 47 other members of a highly publicized, unarmed religious peace delegation of 150 Imams and other Islamic leaders. The NATO command has acknowledged the attack occurred.
This was a deliberate, targeted massacre by U.S./NATO aircraft. The religious leaders were gathered to attempt a meeting of peace and reconciliation with the NATO-supported opposition. The attack occurred in the city of Brega, which is 500 miles east of Tripoli and close to the area under opposition control.
Since time immemorial, in every country and culture, peace delegations, religious delegations and unarmed envoys traveling under white flags have been accorded respect and safe passage, especially in war zones.
U.S./NATO Command, with reconnaissance predator drones that are able to read a license on a car, knew exactly what this large, highly respected Islamic peace delegation was, where the delegates were staying and what their announced purpose was.
This latest NATO airstrike is a most grievous war crime. It is an unprecedented new level of international lawlessness and it reveals a dangerous escalation of the war on Muslim people. It comes on top of the ongoing criminal assassination attempts on Col. Gadhafi that have already killed his son and three of his grandchildren.
NATO bombs have hit numerous civilian targets including the Libyan Down’s Syndrome Society, a school that provided speech therapy, handicrafts and sports sessions for disabled children. NATO Planning Staff claim that “All NATO targets are military targets,”
And the New York Times reports that Gen. Sir David Richards, Britain’s top military commander, is propsing that NATO target Libyan “infrastructure,” including electrical power grids and fuel dumps, in government held areas. Such targeting would be an attack on the civilian population that would constitute a war crime according to the Geneva Conventions.
The people of Libya, North Africa, the Middle East, the U.S. and the world deserve a debate on the need to immediately end this war.
With the worst economic crisis since the Great Depression having a continued impact on the peoples of the U.S. and the world, we must stand up and demand the end to the bombings and other destabilization efforts against Libya, and all other forms of hostility against this African country.
We need money for jobs, housing, food, health care, and quality education — not for war and destruction.
Tell Congress, the White House and the corporate media that the illegal and criminal war on Libya must end now.
Stop the bombs! End the war!
You can do something to help by SIGNING an online petition at: iacenter.org/africa/libyawarpowersact
to send messages to House and Senate Foreign Relations Committees, congressional leaders, the Obama administration, the U.N. Secretary-General, Security Council, General Assembly President and member states, and the national and international media.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/plum-line/post/exclusive-private-letter-from-cia-chief-undercuts-claim-torture-was-key-to-killing-bin-laden/2011/03/03/AFLFF04G_blog.html#pagebreak
Can we assume that the RNC is operating a chicken hawk farm somewhere in the county?
Kids say the darndest things …
You don’t say…… Maybe it should be tried on him….How many false confessions do we really get her in the US….Is Dallas County leading the prison count for releases due to Project Innocence…..
Maybe the CIA can arrange a little torture session for Santorum. That way he will know a little more than ‘what he’s read’. What does this guy read anyway?
I think all wannabe Presidatial canidates should have to read at least one book a month for a year (other than Jesus books and Ayn Rand) and be tested on them. I get the feeling most of the right-wingers really need to broaden their horizons.
Why would Santorum claim that Obama’s “greatest foreign policy success” was the assassination of Bin Laden, if he actually believes that a captured Bin Laden could have been tortured into “cooperation” to provide intelligence on Al Quaeda’s global network?