Ohio is about to change state gun laws to allow people to wear concealed guns into facilities that serve alcohol, including bars, restaurants, and sports stadiums. Republican Gov. John Kasich is expected to sign the bill.
Advocates insist that it is safer to allow guns in bars than to require that they be left in cars outside of bars. Ohio is currently one of nine states that prohibit firearms where alcohol is served and consumed. Another 21 states allow guns in places that serve alcohol.
The new law would cover 17,000 facilities where alcohol is served and consumed.
Source: Dispatch
Nice job Jason. Nicely said!
Mike Appleton – you are a dumba$$. This law was created to prevent “victim zones” where the bad guy knows weapons can not be carried. This is not intended to test the moral character of the lawful abiding citizen that has been legally issued a CCW. It is for people like me, who like to eat at an establishment with my wife and children, that also allows people like you to go and get stupid drunk. Take Buffalo Wild Wings (I spelled it out for you dumba$$), I go there to eat dinner, you go there to get drunk, the bad guy has no idea who is carrrying a weapon because our state government passed a very good law to protect me and my family. Thus said, Buffalo Wild Wings is now, not a victim zone. This also applies to all other establishments that serve alcohol, and good food. I give you my word, I will not go into a BAR to drink and carry my weappon. It is unlawful, makes no sense, and I don’t need a weapon to make me feel “big and bad”. You folks need to stop being petrified pu$$ies and learn the reason for the law.
FFLEO-
I agree, and if I came across as dismissive in any of my answers, it was not my intention.
Jason,
Thank you for your detailed reply to others’ posts. Regardless of stances on this issue, the view from the other side is critically important
Frank-
“Similarly to people not being allowed to consume alcohol and then drive.”
Which is no different from the current state. Those who will break the new law would already be breaking the law.
Anonymously Yours-
“Adam, then why go in the bar with a gun…why…guns have better places than where alcohol is served….”
Because crimes occur there? Because I have to walk to and from my car to get to the bar? Because I might go somewhere else before and after I go to the bar? Because I don’t want to leave my gun unattended in a car?
But you know what? The law wasn’t ever primarily about bars. Ohio law doesn’t distinguish restaurants from bars (they both just have Class D licenses). The law is really about being able to go to *restaurants* while carrying.
Mike Appleton-
“People go to bars to drink.”
Some do. I don’t. Designated drivers don’t. People who just don’t drink but want to hang out with friends don’t. And people who carry legally WON’T.
“Most of the people who walk into bars with concealed weapons are going to be drinking.”
You have no evidence for this and common sense says otherwise. The law already bans drinking and carrying. If I am willing to drink and carry once the law goes into effect, why wouldn’t I already be doing so? And drunken shootouts by legal carriers don’t seem to have been a problem in the many states where this has been legal for years.
“When people drink their judgment becomes impaired.”
Yep, which is why it’s illegal to drink and carry.
mr.ed-
“This was fought by the restaurant and bar owners and the police.”
For not a single rational reason. And law enforcement in virtually every state that has passed legal concealed carry has opposed it. And in every case, they’ve been wrong.
“I can tell you that unless I see a sign on the door that states NO GUNS per state law, I’ll take my business elsewhere. I can’t take the chance that somebody with no impulse control and an inferiority complex will challenge somebody, drunk or sober.”
Wait, you’re in Ohio and you won’t go into a business that allows carry? You have to go out of your way to shop or do much of anything in a place that doesn’t allow carry here.
Mike Appleton-
“We are treated to a couple of stories on this site each week involving otherwise rational people who get drunk and do rather bizarre things.”
I know, it’s horrible. Fortunately the new law doesn’t allow drinking and carrying.
“And the uniform opposition of law enforcement agencies to these laws should give us all pause.”
Really? The same law enforcement that has proven to be wrong with their cries of blood in the streets regarding legal concealed carry? The same law enforcement so often highlighted on this very blog that always acts rationally and strictly in the interest of the public? Yeah, that was sarcastic.
“Besides, how many bar shootings are necessary to become statistically significant?”
I don’t know. How many acts of self defense are necessary to become statistically significant?
rafflaw-
“Mike A. is on target (pun intended) when he talks about mixing guns and alcohol.”
But the new law doesn’t mix guns and alcohol any more than current law does.
“If you want to read about people being shot in bars or just outside of bars after drinkiing, subscribe to the Chicago Tribune.”
Yes, Chicago, where there are so many legal concealed carriers.
“I understand that the state issued permits would be required, but the guns are still in the bars.”
The guns are ALREADY in the bars. Just not with people who have undergone background checks, taken handling and safety courses, etc. In other words, the people who follow the law.
“Just because someone has a permit does not make them less apt to use it after drinking.”
If they will break the new law, they’d already be breaking it. The new law doesn’t make it less illegal to drink and carry.
“I am embarrassed to say that I have drivien in my younger days while being intoxicated and I had a legal drivers license at the time. It was the booze that was in control, not the drivers license.”
No, YOU were in control. You failed to take the precautions necessary to prevent you from drinking and driving. I’ve already seen in the relevant forums I frequent that legal carriers discussing how they will handle the new law, and the question is not, “Should we break the law and drink while strapped?” They are saying that they won’t carry if they plan to have even one drink. But again, the primary purpose of the law isn’t to carry in bars, it’s to be able to carry in Outback and such.
lottakatz-
“I never went to a bar and drank to be sociable, watch a game on the big screen or fulfill a purely social function. I always went to bars to have alcohol alter my consciousness and sometimes it had a bad result for me but that’s that. It is what t is.”
That’s you. It’s definitely not me, and the experience of lots of states seems to show that it’s not the bulk of legal carriers.
“I would not then or now visit a bar that allowed guns.”
This is sort of like saying, “I would not then or now visit a liquor store that allowed robberies.” The guns ARE ALREADY THERE. They’re just not being carried by the people who are least likely to harm you.
Rick L:. “This may give a whole new meaning to the request for a “shot and a beer” in Ohio.”
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Well played sir.
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OS, Thanks for the SC pic. Even when he and I were much younger I thought he looked ‘unfinished’, that as he got older he would look delicious. He does. Thank you.
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I never went to a bar and drank to be sociable, watch a game on the big screen or fulfill a purely social function. I always went to bars to have alcohol alter my consciousness and sometimes it had a bad result for me but that’s that. It is what t is. I would not then or now visit a bar that allowed guns. There’s just a limit to how badly it ends I’m willing to indulge or risk.
It’s just a personal choice, and based on all the stats my fear may indeed be wrong, I can entertain that and agree my fear is groundless. But fear isn’t rational, that’s its great virtue and great liability. Others are free to make another choice.
then why can’t someone with a state issued carry permit carry in a county courthouse or state legislature? If left in a vehicle it may be stolen and end up in the wrong hands.
and there are other reasons to carry
http://cloudfront.mediamatters.org/static/flash/pl55.swf
Here’s a good timeline of the current gun fiasco: http://reasonedpolitics.blogspot.com/2011/04/hillary-eric-wikileaks-and-batfe.html
If you want to read more about it, I’d look up David Codrea (Examiner) and Mike Vanderboegh (Blogspot)
Raff, just remember. Under the law, the person with the CC permit is not allowed to drink. Kind of like the designated driver. And as I said, people with CC permits tend to be very careful not to do anything that would get it revoked. In that respect, they tend to be more responsible than several police officers I know that carry off duty.
I would feel safer in a bar if the person next to me was carrying. For one thing, since he or she is not drinking, I would make them drive me home. Second, if one of those illegal carry people opened fire, the odds in my favor would be more even.
As for the kilt…..
OS,
I hope you are not wearing that Kilt when you use the word Love! 🙂 I understand that the state issued permits would be required, but the guns are still in the bars. Just because someone has a permit does not make them less apt to use it after drinking. I am embarrassed to say that I have drivien in my younger days while being intoxicated and I had a legal drivers license at the time. It was the booze that was in control, not the drivers license.
To be honest, I realize someone might have a gun in a bar now, so why do we want more guns in there? Besides, I wouldn’t want property in Montana, even if it was beachfront!
raff, you know I love you, but you miss the point. This is about allowing persons with a State-issued carry permit to exercise that privilege in bars. I am not aware of a single incident in which persons with CC permits shot anyone in a bar, in those states where it is legal. Or for that matter, even charged with “brandishing” the weapon.
As for shootings with illegally carried weapons, that is a different story entirely. Those folks will ignore the sign, just as they do now. As I said, I would bet that if you go into almost any bar where there are six or more people and have a shakedown, you would find at least one firearm. I say six or more just to increase the odds.
If you think you can drop in at your local watering hole and be in a 100% weapon-free environment, I have some beachfront property in Montana to sell you.
OS,
This bill is atrocious. Mike A. is on target (pun intended) when he talks about mixing guns and alcohol. If you want to read about people being shot in bars or just outside of bars after drinkiing, subscribe to the Chicago Tribune. This idea of brining guns into bars and into churches and schools, as we have seen in earlier postings, is merely a continued attempt by the Right to scare the white man. I am also confused as to just what the Dems have done to denigrate the 2nd amendment. The right has made political hay over Obama’s alleged intentions to take away the guns, and nothing could be farther from the truth. Just what is the need to wear a concealed gun in a bar?
Frank, I agree up to a point. The NRA has become another wholly owned subsidiary of the GOP. I gave up my life membership more than thirty years ago when I got one too many fund raising broadsides, going after some of my favorite Democrats.
If the Democratic Party would stop treating the Second Amendment like the proverbial red-headed stepchild, they could guarantee a majority every election. I read somewhere that 21% of the voting population are gun owners. Getting most of them on board would be a HUGE swing vote.