Gov. Rick Perry was asked directly about his view on creationism and the religious dogma regarding the age of the Earth. His response was truly Bushesque, saying that the Earth is “pretty old” and evolution “got some gaps.” He wants both evolution and creationism taught side by side as equal “theories” in public schools.
A mother at a campaign stop prompted her son to ask Perry about creationism and the age of the Earth. Perry responded “How old do I think the Earth is? I have no idea – it’s pretty old. It goes back a long way – I’m not sure anyone knows really completely know how old it is.” It goes back a long way? Of course, all that carbon dating appears inconclusive since no one is actually living who saw the Earth billions of years ago. Due to the lack of eye witnesses, that means that the Earth is somewhere between billions and just thousands of years old. However, it is pretty old.
Perry went on to say on evolution that “It’s a theory that’s out there and it’s got some gaps in it. In Texas, we teach creationism and evolution because I feel you’re smart enough to figure out which one is right.” A theory that’s out there.
Texas has been ranked 44th in spending on education and last in high diplomas Polls show that a third of Texans believe humans and dinosaurs roamed the earth at the same time and a majority reject the theory of evolution.
Source: TPM
@Slarti
” I would agree that the science of abiogenesis is unsettled (give it a couple of decades and a consensus will probably emerge is my guess), but the science of evolution is settled (at least as far as the matter of evolution occurring – many details still need to be refined, corrected, or discovered…).”
Again, we agree. Twice in one day.
Wait a minute Slarts! I was promised there would be no math here! 🙂
Frankly,
If you just made a horrible bluff and have no idea what to do now that it has been called, you can just slink quietly away… we’ll all know what happened.
To me the final answer in this debate is: Is Genesis coherent, much less credible as the history of man and the Universe.
Why did God need to rest? Allegory to explain why man should have a Sabbath.
Why did God need to create Eve from Adam’s rib, when he just created Adam whole? Allegory to explain a man’s dominion over his woman and the relationship of the sexes.
Why was the Tree of Knowledge created in the first place? Allegory to explain why Adam and Eve had to leave Eden, thus why the world wasn’t “Edenic”.
Where did the women Cain and Abel married come from? Good question which Genesis doesn’t answer.
Where did God come from and if God is Eternal how did that come about?
These are just a few of the inconsistencies which shows Genesis was never meant as a true retelling of creation. It was a damned allegory and was understood as such by those at the time, just as the Greeks understood that the Olympians were also allegorical. Humankind has actually regressed intellectually in the last two or three thousand years.
There are a few problems with evolutionary theory, but there is so much more consistency that we know something like that happened. To believe in the factual nature of Genesis is absurd and actually blasphemes God, by diminishing the eternal nature of creation and its’ creator. What is interesting is that if you throw out the notion that creation took only a week, you come up with the bones of a story matching sciences theories, only in allegorical terms.
God save us from the Fundamentalists of this world, for theirs is the path of death and destruction.
Make that “Bugs”. D’oh!
kderosa said:
Frankly,
I would love to hear your “very good explanation”. I’m sure that I don’t have the depth and breadth of understanding of mathematics that you do, but I’ve learned a little in my 4 years of undergraduate study of mathematics, the 10 years of math grad school I went through before getting my PhD, and the five years of post-doctoral research I did in mathematical biology and I’ll do my best to keep up.
If you’re talking about string theory, I’m not an expert (although my roommate for 4 years at Duke was studying string theory and gravitation – they’ve got some pretty good string theorists at Duke, by the way…), but I’ve had two years of abstract algebra and a year of differential geometry and I know the basics. Personally, I’m not sold on the Big Bang and I think that the standard picture of particle physics is going to seriously change when the LHC goes to 14 TeV in 2014, but we’ll have to wait for the data on that one.
In any case, please do share your explanation for creation ex nihilo with the rest of us. Although not all of us (or none of us) may understand the technical parts, most of the people here are smart enough to recognize competence when they see it.
Bob,
I wont argue with Bug either.
OS,
Actually, the rest is evolution…
OS,
Um, forgive me if I’m wrong, but aren’t Evolution and abiogenesis are two completely different theories? I mean, it’s an observable fact that environmental pressures and mutations in genetic and epigenetic material combine to change what phenotypes are common in a population. That holds true if we say that life on the planet earth happened like you say, or was if it was created by a race of inter-dimensional beings as part of a giant supercomputer.
Otherwise, we’d be force to say “plate tectonics have a gap because we don’t know where matter came from.”
Given the “environmental” conditions of the primordial soup, it is not hard to understand how protolife formed from elements and compounds available. Those conditions have been replicated in laboratories, and the results have been good enough to make biochemists understand how the earliest life could have started. Given the right mixture of chemicals, pressure, heat, lightning (a lot of it) and time (a lot of it), something akin to a virus-like molecule happened in some puddle somewhere. And the rest, as they say, is history…..
Who am I to argue with Bugs Bunny?
Bugs Bunny: “In the beginning, there was no life, the earth was forming…BOOM, the earth simmered from earth quakes, mountains forming, oceans boiling, then all was quiet….a little pool of water forms..in that pool, two tiny ameba, the start of life.”
@Slarti
“intelligent designists are not scientists and whether you’re talking about creationism, intelligent design, irreducible complexity or the next name the crusade to go back to the dark ages comes up with to hide their lies it will never be science because it is not falsifiable. Teaching things other than science in a science classroom is intellectual poison for a (technological) society.”
I don’t disagree.
My only point is that even the science in the arena of ambiogenesis is far from settled. Some seem to think that it is and/or that the theory of evolution speaks to this issue with any scientific authority.
@Frankly
“I’ll explain to you how the universe came to be out of nothing (actually there is a very good explanation but the math is well beyond you) just as soon as you can explain where this ‘God’ being came from out of nothing.”
There is a reading comprehension deficiency here. The issue is how life came from non-life material, not how the universe came into being.
What makes you think the math is beyond me? I got all the way up to differential equations, so why don’t you go ahead and try me out.
@ EvoLoonies
How old is the earth? Or, how old is the oldest living thing? Or, even dead thing, like the T-rex?
Let’s think about this. Let’s research and not just regurgitate what some voice-over on NatGeo says.
How old is the intact, pliable soft tissue (blood vessels) found in the t-rex leg bone? Or the blood cells, or the DNA? Google Mary Schweitzer.
Your mullahs reply,”70 million YEARS, my son, you must beliEEEEve!”
Tell me what science backs that up!
Are you just too lazy to see ‘Dawkins stumped’ or ‘Dawkins and Stein’ on youtube? My favorite part of “Expelled” is Michael Ruse’s bit on the origin of life on earth…..”I TOLD you, on the backs of CHRYSTALS!!!!!”
Good thinking! Nice reiligion. With priests like Ruse, Lyotard, Enns (and I didn’t make these names up) who needs comedians?
Perhaps you may be interested in the NASA-software-based documentary, The Star of Bethlehem, by Eric Larson. See the whole thing and the part about Good Friday, April 3, 33 A.D. Then, check out the writings of Phlegon, Thallus, Tertullian and Sextus Julius Africanus who corroborate the shroud of darkness that covered the earth. Just fairytales? Keep whistling.
kderosa,
Cintelligent designists are not scientists and whether you’re talking about creationism, intelligent design, irreducible complexity or the next name the crusade to go back to the dark ages comes up with to hide their lies it will never be science because it is not falsifiable. Teaching things other than science in a science classroom is intellectual poison for a (technological) society.
Elaine,
I like your idea. Maybe Illinois can join the new North United States!
D’oh! Forgot to subscribe to the thread…
Perry has some pretty big gaps in his understanding (although anyone who’s willing to execute innocent men has much bigger problems than that…)
Tootie said:
Nuttie – Nice, you being able to decide who is a real Christian and all. That makes your ignorant bullshit all that much easier for you to believe. If they don’t talk & think and agree with you they just are not “Christian” are they?
Hmmmmmm . . . so does that make you God? I mean being omnipotent and all knowing like that must mean you are at least in constant contact with Him so you should be able to do all those other things mentioned in the New Testament, drink poison, handle snakes without being bitten, cure all diseases. Can you grow an amputated limb back on for me? Or are you just another mindless bigot blaming the Almighty for your narrow-minded hate and ignorance?
klownderosa – I’ll explain to you how the universe came to be out of nothing (actually there is a very good explanation but the math is well beyond you) just as soon as you can explain where this ‘God’ being came from out of nothing.
BTW – His kid said something about mote v. plank you really should look into.
Perry’s “got some gaps” between his ears… And what Nal said…
(I see that AY beat me to the punch…, but I’m posting this anyway…. It bears repeating… )
suggestion: choose the GOP candidate of choice. It’s going to be the only way out of this mess unless POTUS does a Johnson and says “see ya”. You know it, I know it, the American people know it (and gosh darn it, people like me). So stop the bellyaching and try to discern who the devil will be this time. Then reassess in 2016.
Take a gander at this link. It is from a person who doesn’t especially care about Perry but offers up defense of Texas employment stats. Also does not claim that any positive effects are Perry-pogenic.
http://www.politicalmathblog.com/?p=1590