The debate over Virginia’s new abortion bill is raging. While there are good-faith debates over the scope of state authority vis-a-vis women in cases of abortion, the legislation would appear to require an invasive ultrasound procedure for women in the first 12 weeks of a pregnancy — tipping the scales in terms of the burden on women. However, conservative CNN Contributor Dana Loesch went on the air this week to make the rather astonishing claim that such an involuntary procedure is no different from voluntary sex.
I have previously criticized CNN for its use of Nancy Grace as a legal analyst and show host. However, there remains a tendency on all cable shows to play to the extremes of political and legal analysis — degrading what are sometimes legitimate disagreements over constitutional law
On this occasion, Loesch (who is associated with Andrew Breitbart) defended the law against objections to the invasive procedure:
LOESCH: That’s the big thing that progressives are trying to say, that it’s rape and so on and so forth. […] There were individuals saying, “Oh what about the Virginia rape? The rapes that, the forced rapes of women who are pregnant?” What? Wait a minute, they had no problem having similar to a trans-vaginal procedure when they engaged in the act that resulted in their pregnancy.
There is an obvious difference between consensual sexual relations and an intrusive procedure ordered by the state. The premise of such comments appears to be that, like sex, abortion is a choice. Thus, Loesch stated simply “Don’t get an abortion and you don’t have to worry about any sort of mandated ultrasound.” However, the Supreme Court has said it is part of a protected right of privacy (albeit a right balanced against certain state interests).
Here is the tape:
There is a legal difference. It is also an example of how movement Republicans can differ from libertarian Republicans. Many Republicans (particularly women) would find this comment highly offensive. For civil libertarians and libertarians, there is no greater example of government intrusion than an invasive medical procedure. One can certainly argue over whether abortion is protected as a right by the Constitution, but this argument reflects a more fundamental difference on the scope of permissible government action. While the Tea Party (with which Loesch is also associated) has often been described as libertarian, the views of some members often embrace governmental power over civil liberties.
Mespo, The requirement to determine the age of the fetus was left in the bl and that makes TVU necessary during the first trimester. The compromise language left the method up to the doctor. Same BS just pushing the decision onto the doctor.
I heard on one of the MSN talk shows tonight that the deal on a “compromise” had fallen apart.
Don’t start celebrating too soon.
From Politics Nation:
War on Women’s Health (about the ultrasound bills in Virginia)
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/45755884/#46488716
Elaine M:
The “new” bill required an ultrasound but made the transvaginal procedure optional thus gutting the measure for its Senate sponsor, a woman named Jill Holtzman Vogel. It certainly appears ded for this session, anyway. The House passed the amended version knowing full well it would die in the Senate. Facesaving for them.
Unfortunately, I’ve heard that McDonnell wrote a new bill that isn’t much better. I’ll see if I can find more information on it.
Excellent news Mespo!
Good news, mespo.
UPDATE: Virginia’s proposed mandatory ultrasound bill is dead – apparently to be “stricken” by the sponsor in the VA Senate after a nationwide outcry and amended to smithereens in the House. I spoke to three legislative aides yesterday and they all said they have rarely seen anything like it. One has been at the General Assembly for over 20 years. I’m waiting to hear from some friends in the House and Senate and will report what they tell me that’s on the record. Apparently Gov. McDonnell pulled the plug on it this week after hearing it could hurt Republicans. Guv says there were lots of legal and medical issues requiring amendments. I think there were lots of political issues affecting his future that required amendment to his “I’ll sign anything” position. Good guys win one here, but the truth is that in the abortion issue there are no real winners.
Great job Seamus!
AN,
I was thinking of calling the others to stone him.
PS Isn’t it wonderful what computers can help them with. You get sorted all the scriptures about hateful children, etc. Ready to use.
I wonder how computers fit into their biblical world view?
Seamus,
Let me be first to say go crucify your own heretics first. We’re not part of your cult.
Idealist707,
Seamus has one of the most wickedly funny ironic sensibilities here, he does’t post much, but picks his spots well.
seamus,
lol
God really really hates wise-ass kids, so it’s o.k. to kill them, especially if you’re bald and they make fun of your toupe:
He that smiteth his father, or his mother, shall be surely put to death. — Exodus 21:15
He that curseth his father, or his mother, shall surely be put to death. — Exodus 21:17
Children who mock their parents will have their eyes plucked out by ravens and eaten by eagles.
The eye that mocketh at his father, and despiseth to obey his mother, the ravens of the valley shall pick it out, and the young eagles shall eat it. — Proverbs 30:17
Like Abraham, parents should be willing to kill their children for God.
And he said, Take now thy son, thine only son Isaac, whom thou lovest, and … offer him there for a burnt offering…. And Abraham stretched forth his hand, and took the knife to slay his son. — Genesis 22:2,10
God killed all the firstborn children in an entire country.
The LORD smote all the firstborn in the land of Egypt, from the firstborn of Pharaoh that sat on his throne unto the firstborn of the captive that was in the dungeon…. And there was a great cry in Egypt; for there was not a house where there was not one dead. — Exodus 12:29-30
Sometimes God kills children for misbehaving.
And he went up from thence unto Bethel: and as he was going up by the way, there came forth little children out of the city, and mocked him, and said unto him, Go up, thou bald head; go up, thou bald head. And he turned back, and looked on them, and cursed them in the name of the LORD. And there came forth two she bears out of the wood, and tare forty and two children of them. — 2 Kings 2:23-24
A True Christian waits to see if their kid’s going to be an a-hole before killing them (with God’s blessing):
If a man have a stubborn and rebellious son, which will not obey the voice of his father, or the voice of his mother, and that, when they have chastened him, will not hearken unto them: Then shall his father and his mother lay hold on him, and bring him out unto the elders of his city, and unto the gate of his place; And they shall say unto the elders of his city, This our son is stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton, and a drunkard. And all the men of his city shall stone him with stones, that he die: so shalt thou put evil away from among you; and all Israel shall hear, and fear. — Deuteronomy 21:18-21
Dingy broad.
PS on the vaginal article,,,,,,,it uses softer euphemisms too.
But more important in an American scene is our prediliction for quick fixes.
Pills, cure me instead of heavy lifting, plastic re-contructions of the vagina….
Well, as a certain queen certainly said after her eyelift operation.
“It would be so nice to feel a smile, when I do one.”
So la re-education perineale is the way to go. Get to know your old friend while doing some mild lifting.
Make your lover in chief say: “Wow, did you do what I think you did? Viva la France.” Wherupon you reply: “Viva la compagnie!”
For those of us interested in vaginal questions, and we all should be…….
and a good laugh too, see link, but first
EXCERPT
Shortly after my husband and I moved to Paris, I became pregnant, which was a relief, because I would get fat for a legitimate biological reason, not just because of all the pain au chocolat. When I gave birth to our daughter last November, my husband and I spent five government-sponsored days in the maternity ward at Clinique Leonardo Da Vinci, where we learned that French hospital meals come with a cheese course and that as part of my postpartum treatment I would be prescribed 10 to 20 sessions of la rééducation périnéale. This is a kind of physical therapy designed to retrain the muscles of the pelvic floor, including the vagina, and is one of the cornerstones of French postnatal care. Two months after our daughter was born, I summoned the courage to teach my vagina some new tricks……….”
http://www.slate.com/articles/life/family/2012/02/postnatal_care_in_france_vagina_exercises_and_video_games.single.html
A lot of wise things are seen and said. How sound they are, besides allowing their politicians to have mistresses, they at least eliminate one reason for them; and save women and later children distress and danger.
That I enjoyed my reaction to hearing french medicalese was irrelevant.
Hope you also find a personal note, but of better worth.
If you’re gonna emancipate yourselves you won’t find a better time than now.
Please don’t relapse, for the sake of all who’ve been there before you, and your daughters as long as idiots are in power.
You did not get pro-choice by backing down from the patriarchs. Alraady they will take it away from you. What’s next? Contraception.
PS Would that men would emancipate themselves too.
Ellsberg alleges that job security was the primary motive behind the critical internal email. The tone was at the kindest expressed as: “You may criticize, but only in secret to the administration, otherwise how can you risk Rand, and our positions?” See “Secrets” for more.
I bet the Virginia governor will review the matter. He is feeling the heat of women everywhere.
Virginia Governor Backs Off ‘State-Sponsored Rape’ Ultrasound Bill, Promises To ‘Review’ Measure
By Amanda Peterson Beadle on Feb 22, 2012
http://thinkprogress.org/health/2012/02/22/430032/virginia-governor-backs-off-state-sponsored-rape-ultrasound-bill-promises-review-measure/
A bill requiring women to undergo an invasive ultrasound before having an abortion has already sailed through the Virginia Senate, and was to be signed into law by Gov. Bob McDonnell (R) once it cleared the House. Under the proposed policy, most women seeking seeking an abortion will be forced to have a transvaginal procedure, in which a probe is inserted into the vagina, and then moved around until an ultrasound image is produced.”
But now McDonnell is backing away from his previous wholehearted support of the measure. Earlier, he told ABC News he supports “the concept that a woman should have all of the information possible before she makes a decision about terminating a pregnancy.” Now, his office has clarified that he will “review” the bill if it passes the General Assembly:
“Our position is: If the General Assembly passes this bill the governor will review it, in its final form, at that time,” McDonnell spokesman Tucker Martin said in a statement. He declined to explain the change in approach, but Virginia’s governors can sign, veto or amend legislation.
The House and Senate have approved their versions of the bill. On Tuesday, the House postponed a final vote on the legislation…for the second day in a row. […]
The officials with knowledge of Tuesday night’s Republican meeting said GOP leaders hope to introduce amendments on Wednesday, but it is unclear whether the rank and file would support them.
Virginians opposed to the ultrasound bill held a silent protest on Tuesday. Wearing stickers that said, “Say No to State-Mandated Rape” and “Private Property: Keep Out,” several hundred demonstrators locked arms outside of the Capitol. And a new poll shows that a majority in the state oppose the requirement, which has been spoofed by NBC’s Saturday Night Live and mocked on The Daily Show. “This is like a TSA pat-down inside their vagina,” Jon Stewart explained, contrasting McDonnell’s support for this measure and his opposition to TSA pat-downs.
But while Virginia’s governor is backing away from the invasive bill, legislators in Alabama and Pennsylvania are considering the same ultrasound policy. Even though studies show that viewing an ultrasound does not change a woman’s mind about having an abortion, Pennsylvania Rep. Marcy Toepel (R) argued that “Getting an ultrasound is a good thing for pregnant women.”
Seven states already mandate that an abortion provider perform an ultrasound on women seeking abortions and provide women an opportunity to view the image. In Virginia’s proposed law, a woman would have to sign a statement and have the ultrasound image added to her medical records if she refuses to view it.
Yes, thanks Swarthmore mom.