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CNN Contributor Claims Ultrasound Intrusive Exam Under Virginia’s New Law Is No Different From Consensual Sex

The debate over Virginia’s new abortion bill is raging. While there are good-faith debates over the scope of state authority vis-a-vis women in cases of abortion, the legislation would appear to require an invasive ultrasound procedure for women in the first 12 weeks of a pregnancy — tipping the scales in terms of the burden on women. However, conservative CNN Contributor Dana Loesch went on the air this week to make the rather astonishing claim that such an involuntary procedure is no different from voluntary sex.

I have previously criticized CNN for its use of Nancy Grace as a legal analyst and show host. However, there remains a tendency on all cable shows to play to the extremes of political and legal analysis — degrading what are sometimes legitimate disagreements over constitutional law

On this occasion, Loesch (who is associated with Andrew Breitbart) defended the law against objections to the invasive procedure:

LOESCH: That’s the big thing that progressives are trying to say, that it’s rape and so on and so forth. […] There were individuals saying, “Oh what about the Virginia rape? The rapes that, the forced rapes of women who are pregnant?” What? Wait a minute, they had no problem having similar to a trans-vaginal procedure when they engaged in the act that resulted in their pregnancy.

There is an obvious difference between consensual sexual relations and an intrusive procedure ordered by the state. The premise of such comments appears to be that, like sex, abortion is a choice. Thus, Loesch stated simply “Don’t get an abortion and you don’t have to worry about any sort of mandated ultrasound.” However, the Supreme Court has said it is part of a protected right of privacy (albeit a right balanced against certain state interests).

Here is the tape:

There is a legal difference. It is also an example of how movement Republicans can differ from libertarian Republicans. Many Republicans (particularly women) would find this comment highly offensive. For civil libertarians and libertarians, there is no greater example of government intrusion than an invasive medical procedure. One can certainly argue over whether abortion is protected as a right by the Constitution, but this argument reflects a more fundamental difference on the scope of permissible government action. While the Tea Party (with which Loesch is also associated) has often been described as libertarian, the views of some members often embrace governmental power over civil liberties.

190 thoughts on “CNN Contributor Claims Ultrasound Intrusive Exam Under Virginia’s New Law Is No Different From Consensual Sex”

  10. Va.’s anti-abortion bill: This is conservatism?
    By Richard Cohen
    2/23/12
    http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/post-partisan/post/vas-anti-abortion-bill-this-is-conservatism/2012/02/23/gIQAxC1FVR_blog.html

    Excerpt;
    Without quite realizing it, Virginia Gov. Bob McDonnell and his fellow anti-abortion zealots have stumbled on a marvelous idea. What they want — what they originally wanted — is for women to undergo an ultrasound procedure before having an abortion. I suggest, in the same spirit, that the governor and like-minded members of the legislature undergo a brain scan before voting on any legislation that affects the health and welfare of women. The results, based on what we’ve been seeing lately, will be shocking.

    The Virginia legislation, itself something of an abortion, is being modified after having been withdrawn or whatever. Great confusion attends the deliberations of McDonnell, who discovered in his 57th year that a vaginal probe would be intrusive. Still, what remains is a medical procedure of some sort so that the pregnant woman will discover that she is indeed pregnant. She would be confronted with a printout of the ultrasound image, which, under the original legislation, she would have to purchase.

    In all fairness, then, members of the legislature would have to purchase their own brain scan, maybe frame the thing and hang it in their office. Then, possibly, their constituents would understand how avowed conservatives could have the government require a woman to undergo some sort of ultrasound procedure and — mandate of all mandates — have to pay for it herself. If this is conservatism, it is indistinguishable from what conservatives say they hate.

    It is at moments such as this that I miss L. Douglas Wilder, Virginia’s former governor. When he ran for office (1989), he ingeniously defined his pro-choice position as conservative. He was, of course, right. The very notion that the government does not have the right to tell a woman what she must do with her body — how she must make a very personal decision — should be the essence of conservatism. Instead, in the name of less government and less-intrusive government at that, we get the government itself telling a woman she must humiliate herself with a tutorial on pregnancy and the creation of life before she makes an extremely personal decision.

  12. Bob McDonnell for Veep!
    By Charles P. Pierce
    2/22/12
    http://www.esquire.com/blogs/politics/bob-mcconnell-birth-control-6814208

    Excerpt:
    The governor of Virginia really, really wants to be somebody’s vice-president. Very likely, that would be a presidential candidate who would like to get more than three votes from women in the general election. Bob McDonnell also has spent his life as a jumbo bag of nuts on the issue of women’s place in this society, and particularly what they do with their ladyparts when he’s not watching and Jesus is on vacation. So here comes that delightful bill out of the Virginia House of Delegates (motto: Patrick Henry’s Picture Just Fell Off The Wall) by which any woman in the Commonwealth who wants to exercise her constitutional right to choose has to get a big old probe stuck up inside her first.

    Arroooogah! Arroooogah! Dive. Dive!

    So, suddenly, vice-presidential timber Bob starts to have second thoughts about the Dildos Mandating Dildos Act Of 2012. Bob’s “backing off” his committment to organized medievalism. Good for you, Bob. By way of explanation, The Washington Post reports this little nugget without any concern that some of its readers may keel over laughing:

    “Many of the bill’s supporters were apparently unaware of how invasive the procedure could be, one of the officials added.”

  14. Carol Levy,

    I came because of happenstance across your reply to my query “years ago”.

    Unfortunately, here in Sweden, where we have a one-payer system, equal care is not always achieved. It seems here that repeated studies in different specialties reveal real disparities based on wealth. My assumption is that the wealthy are inculcated with a sense of being worthy of the best and are thus more assertive. Press references have only revealed the expected disclaimer from medicines side. I have contrarily personal experiences both for myself and others which contradict that defense.

    This in reference to your reticence when using Medicaid and asserting rights of privacy when getting care in teaching institutions.

    Myself I’ve always challenged doctors, to what advantage may rightfully be asked (just as I always have most authorities). They have put in a joint journal system, so entries from different care units are available to all.
    I can ask to be excepted totally or even entrywise, but don’t.. But, in all likelihood, there is an anames section where notations of the type: P. is disruptive, aggressive, inclined to paranoic interpretations, argumentive, etc, etc. To which many can add their “ditto”s followed by signum.
    Be that as it may, delusion of not, i still get excellent care, in spite of my “inquisitive” manner.

    As for intrusions on my integrity. Those occurred so early and continuously so that my defense has been to regard my person and my body as almost detached quantities of no inherent value. This stands me well at times like invasive examinations, but of course is a disability in finding and living with yourself.

    I have a friend over there who is strapped out, no one to help (?).
    I suggested Medicaid. Will going to Medicaid.gov get you the answers.
    Not to get personal. (You can look at my journal if I can look at yours.)

    But let me end by saying that doctors are a chapter themselves we all have many stories to contribute to.

    Oh, yes we were talking about health care. And I feel what I write is relevant, although admittedly lengthy.

  16. Seamus,
    Rolling on the floor laughing. You sure jerked my chain! Which ain’t hard to do. Can you pronounce all the Hebrew (?) words too.
    Hoping to see you in a new appearances.

    You and your partner could do an act which just might make big time.
    And I don’t mean time in the pen; instead: MSM. Yoohoo supervirality. Google top. A star in the heaven above the Mormon Tabernacle. A glowing laughing face in the heavens to write about.

  17. I believe Virginia Legislators should be kidnapped, and while in captivity have baseball bats jammed up their Anuses, and chain to their thighs to prevent removal. And, in order for them to be able to go to the Bathroom, they must get the permission, signed, by at least 10 women…… Or until this bill is repealed…

  20. I started tabbing my Bible years ago to deal with the Jahovah Witnesses who would show up every year before Halloween to warn me that my kids were going to Hell if they trick-or-treated. They were nice old ladies for the most part, and for the most part I would start in with the Gospel of Timonthy and show them were it was a sin for them to even be talking to me in public. I quick cruise through Laviticus, and I would try to get them to help me murder all my divorced neighbors and burn down the local McDonald’s for serving beef covered with dairy products. Their response was almost always along the lines of, “Well things have changed a lot since they wrote that…” My response was always to call them sinners for doubting the ever lasting word of God. They don’t come to my house any more. I suspect my address is in some sort of no fly zone. I’ve tried to get my partner (my law partner, not that there’s anything wrong with that) to go door to door with a copy of The Origin of Species and an 8th grade biology book. He was afraid we’d get shot.

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