Respectfully submitted by Lawrence Rafferty (rafflaw)-Guest Blogger
When the Patriot Act was signed into law back in 2001, there was significant discussion about and distrust in the broad powers granted to the FBI and other intelligence gathering agencies. I won’t go into the uproar that ensued back then, but I do want to discuss the latest events pertaining to the infamous Section 215 of the Patriot Act. Section 215 of the Patriot Act is the section that has been dubbed as the “business records” provision of the Act. In the last few days, two United States Senators reconfirmed their concern over the possible misuse of the broad powers granted to the government in Section 215. Senator Ron Wyden and Senator Mark Udall have made public their recent letter to Attorney General Holder expressing their grave concerns on just how Section 215 is being interpreted and used to spy on Americans.
“It is a matter of public record that section 215, which is a public statute, has been the subject of secret legal interpretations. The existence of these interpretations, which are contained in classified opinions issued by the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court (or “FISA Court”) has been acknowledged on multiple occasions by the Justice Department and other executive branch officials. We believe most Americans would be stunned to learn the details of how these secret court opinions have interpreted section 215 of the Patriot Act. As we see it, there is now a significant gap between what most Americans think the law allows and what the government secretly claims the law allows. This is a problem, because it is impossible to have an informed public debate about what the law should say when the public doesn’t know what its government thinks the law says.
As we have said before, we believe that it is entirely legitimate for government agencies to keep certain information secret. Americans acknowledge that their government can better protect national security if it is sometimes allowed to operate in secrecy and as such, they do not expect the Obama Administration to publish every detail about how intelligence is collected any more than early Americans expected George Washington to tell them his plans for observing troop movements at Yorktown. However, in a democratic society — in which the government derives its power from the consent of the people — citizens rightly expect that their government will not arbitrarily keep information from them. Americans expect their government to operate within the boundaries of publicly-understood law, and as voters they have a need and a right to know how the law is being interpreted, so that they can ratify or reject decisions made on their behalf. To put it another way, Americans know that their government will sometimes conduct secret operations, but they don’t think that government officials should be writing secret law.” ACLU The full text of the letter can be found here.
What is amazing to me is not that the government is spying on us, but that they have no qualms in spying on us using any and all legal and maybe not so legal measures as hinted at by Senators Wyden and Udall. If I understand the concern of the Senators and the ACLU, the issue revolves around how the Justice Department is interpreting Section 215 and how easily the Feds can spy on Americans without any showing of actual criminal behavior on the citizen’s part.
“This isn’t the first time the ACLU has sought information about the government’s use of this provision. Back in 2002, we filed a FOIA suit that eventually resulted in the release of a few hundred documents — including this, this, and this. But now the FBI is using Section 215 much more aggressively. It’s using it more often. And statements by Obama administration officials raise the distinct possibility that the government is using the provision to support entire surveillance programs.
As Wyden and Udall say, the secrecy surrounding the government’s use of new surveillance powers is unwarranted and fundamentally antidemocratic. The public should know, at least in general terms, how the government interprets its surveillance authority and how that authority is being used.” ACLU
The linked articles in the above quote from the ACLU hint that intelligence experts believe that Section 215 is being misused to allow the government to obtain massive amounts of geolocation information obtained from cell phones. Of course, unless the government discloses just how they are interpreting Section 215 in their dealings with the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court (FISA), we may never know. However, when United States Senators are publicly nervous about the use of this allegedly misguided data collection process, then we should probably be really worried.
If the government is “stretching” the logical interpretation of the language in Section 215 to allow for massive date collection programs, what good is the FISA court if they are rubber stamping this type of alleged program? What happened to the Obama Administration’s promise to be more transparent than past administrations when it came to their dealings with the Patriot Act and the FISA court?
We should not be surprised at the government’s “handling” of these Section 215 matters since Senator Durbin and then Senator Feingold went on record in the Senate with their grave concerns over misuse of Section 215 powers.
“Section 215 has been repeatedly abused On October 1, 2009, Senator Feingold made several statements regarding abuses of Section 215 during a Senate Judiciary Committee markup hearing: “I remain concerned that critical information about the implementation of the Patriot Act remains classified. Information that I believe, would have a significant impact on the debate….. There is also information about the use of Section 215 orders that I believe Congress and the American People deserve to know. It is unfortunate that we cannot discuss this information today Mr Chairman, I am also a member of the intelligence Committee. I recall during the debate in 2005 that proponents of Section 215 argued that these authorities had never been misused. They cannot make that statement now. They have been misused. I cannot elaborate here. But I recommend that my colleagues seek more information in a classified setting.I want to specifically disagree with Senator Kyle’s statement that just the fact that there haven’t been abuses of the other provisions which are Sunsetted. That is not my view of Section 215. I believe section 215 has been misused as well.” Likewise, after the Senate rejected several reforms of Section 215 powers in 2009, Senator Durbin told his colleagues that: “[T]he real reason for resisting this obvious, common-sense modification of Section 215 is unfortunately cloaked in secrecy. Some day that cloak will be lifted, and future generations will whether ask our actions today meet the test of a democratic society: transparency, accountability, and fidelity to the rule of law and our Constitution.” ‘ Paranoia
I only wish that I had Senator Durbin’s confidence that the cloak of secrecy will ever be lifted. Do you think the government should be required to disclose the Office of Legal Counsel memos that reportedly have authorized this over broad interpretation of Section 215? If the government is allowed to spy on Americans who are not subjects of criminal or terror investigations, have the Fourth and Fifth Amendments been essentially neutered? Is there any hope of the Patriot Act being brought under control, especially when so much of its use is hidden under the National Security label? What do you think should be done?
Dredd,
My initial childish reaction was replaced by happiness that it would be noticed now. Let’s put our shoulders to the wheel.
This is bloody serious. Some say, it’s Iran and WW3 next. Or just a step more to the next and the next…..
…
As I said to AN about peaceful demonstrations of disturbingly large size.
They will be contained and incarcerated indefinitely in camps as suspected supporters on terror, etc. That will freeze it very effectively. We lost the war. Only bloody chaos remains. Or slow emaciation of our spirits and bodies.
Good luck with that.
Your old doddering pessimist.
idealist707 1, March 18, 2012 at 7:30 pm
Dredd,
I posted that hours ago on Turley. Glad you do too, maybe it’ll get noticed,
I got no response.
========================
Very sorry … did not see it. Please consider this a respectful response.
Here is a mysterious section of the order:
(bold added).
Dredd,
I posted that hours ago on Turley. Glad you do too, maybe it’ll get noticed,
I got no response.
Willy Loman posted it 20 hours ago, 03/17.
He has a good analysis.
http://willyloman.wordpress.com/2012/03/17/obama-executive-order-declares-peacetime-war-powers-for-preparedness-sets-up-absolute-neoliberal-handover-to-the-mic/#comment-34627
‘
The executive order text was embedded and linked also.
So hope for lots of reaction.
Here was mine there:
idealist707, on March 18, 2012 at 1:41 pm said:
Taken all together with the religious attacks, the nut circus in the primaries followed by a Jeb Bush compromise, the recent laws, the recent exec orders,________make your own list.
It does seem to add up to a “how long can we go” test.
A totally surveilled, subdued, subjugated, enslaved, and incarcerated America within our own borders if not in prisons, will be the result
I’ve also sent it to friends stateside. Good luck with it.
The link to that Executive Order is HERE.
Speaking of patriots, the president signed an Executive Order on Friday that makes “patriots” of all of us, according to one blog:
(Activist Post).
Another blogs agrees:
(Above Top Secret).
Whether you agree or not with their interpretation, one has to consider that “patriot” is getting some new meaning these days.
eniobob,
Thanks for the link about the NYPD spying.
OS,
Thanks for the daily Kos article.
AY,
They have to keep up the semblance of a democracy.
I agree with Gene (above). The Department of Homeland Security is horribly misnamed, and has made us less secure rather than more secure. The Patriot Act should have been reviewed by the SCOTUS sua sponte as soon as it was passed and declared unconstitutional.
The damn TSA needs to be disbanded and those working for it should find real gainful employment, maybe parking cars or working at the wastewater plant–but then, we do not want to place them too much above their functional capabilities.
Where has the Patriot Act and other similar exercises gotten us? Well, for one thing Cecily McMillan is now in the hospital with very serious injuries, but even after a police officer stomped on her head and she had a seizure, police would not let EMTs attend to her, and she was not allowed to call her doctor.
I will let Horace Boothroyd III pick up Cecily’s story here:
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/03/18/1075442/-Cecily-McMillan-is-in-the-ER-Tonight
Talking to a techie friend the other day and this subject came up….. He was rather lacking in the need for privacy…. His response was all of the nets are routed through a place in virginia…… Makes one wonder why they even bother with the requests….. I just wonder if it’s the CIA headquarters……
Yes… The PA is about as unpatriotic as you can get….
DOD,
I do it all the time myself.
As for sites, check out the Harappian culture of the Indus valley about 2000 BC. They had the most uniform culture ever. A city plan repeated at many sites, all streets were at right angles, of uniform width (2 ´widths), all houses built with uniform brick size, all streets lined with underground sewage ducts, and the only variations of note seem to come from external cultures in Central Asia and ev. the australian aborigine type seen in south india today.
They were noted for their beatiful and skillful handwork and tools, notably expressed in their seals used in marking trade goods. Their script has never been dechiffered.
With or without you degree, you’re fine by me.
Thanks for the nice reply and the suggestion. while as I’ve noted that the Sumerians in 1500 BC seemed to have developed infinitesimal calculus, which was redone by Newton and Liebnitz some 3000 year later. Just shows that maybe they had laptops too then. All Newton could show was a prism.
Just think, 3000 to 4000 years lost. We’d be on some other planet lightyears from here by now otherwise.
Lawrence,
I enjoy reading your posts, but I must say that it is obvious to the most casual observer that Obama and Holder are either fascists, or they have no clue about the principles that this country were founded on, or both.
In any case, they are screwing us over and need to be in jail for treason imo.
I call upon every dog in Washington DC to trek over the Congress and take a dump on the steps of the Senate Office Building. Then go to K Street and give them some poop and then to C Street and catch the schmucks with their hookers and take some photos.
TalkinDog
Here’s definition of “Democracy” from WikiPedia.
I think most people would agree that it described their concept of what it means.
“Democracy is an egalitarian form of government in which all the citizens of a nation together determine public policy, the laws and the actions of their state, requiring that all citizens (meeting certain qualifications) have an equal opportunity to express their opinion. In practise, “democracy” is the extent to which a given system approximates this ideal, and a given political system is referred to as “a democracy” if it allows a certain approximation to ideal democracy. Although no country has ever granted all its citizens (i.e. including minors) the vote, most countries today hold regular elections based on egalitarian principles, at least in theory.
The most common system that is deemed “democratic” in the modern world is parliamentary democracy in which the voting public takes part in elections and chooses politicians to represent them in a Legislative Assembly. The members of the assembly then make decisions with a majority vote.”
If representatives vote in laws that are imperfect, then the problems can be seen as issues hit the courts in plain view of all. Laws can be amended or repealed if the unintended consequences are unacceptable.
The Patriot Act, as implemented, appear to be a law that nobody actually voted for.
Public policy has not been determined by citizens or their representatives. An administration refuses point blank to explain and to be answerable to the people and their representatives.
This is not democracy.
It’s Totalitarian Democracy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Totalitarian_democracy
In short: It’s Democracy Jim, but not as we know it.
(Start Trek reference – for those wondering)
Sorry Mespo727272 My comment was for Idealist707
Another senior moment.
Mespo727272,
As I vaguely recall, nobody gave me a house. I only had one new car (1966) and never paid a college bill, although all of my five kids made it through. You’re right. They did get too controlling. But they had to. They had to maintain their lifestyles and the lifestyles of their families and friends. Without control, you can’t do that. Without that lifestyle, you would have to find honest work.
I’m not a big fan of apocalypses. They generally can’t be counted on to result in much that would be considered beneficial. My hope is for nothing that drastic. Think of the poor insurance companies. On the up side, I’ve made plans for this Dec 23 and I have no intention of cancelling just because of the End of Times.
I wouldn’t bet that other countries may succeed where we’ve failed. I’ve lived and worked abroad and nowhere had a potentially better government than here. I did say potentially.
And finally, I congratulate you on your idea of governing by the proletariat. Today, it could all be done on-line in real time. Fantastic! But you should check out some history sites. It may have been tried before.
Gene H and Dredd,
If we combine ýour lists, the unemployment will kick up by 1 percent.
Good news, ehhh?
If we could only guarantee they stayed there—–at least those from Congress.
MM
As a young man, he depressed me. That quote encourages me.
Thanks. Link? Always need more.
Of course, there will always emerge self-named elitists who feel the sheep are too easily stirred by stimuli into stampeding.
We see this in units so small as a family or clan. Is intellect a self-defeating gene? Any geneticist can prove that negative genes far exceed the positive ones in number**. The relatively few species with a higher level speak in confirmation that intellect belongs to the negative ones—-although the latency of working over time will take awhile to cause our extinction.
Replies please, tired of standing in the echo chamber.
**Reason?: The environment contains many constraints to life’s survival.
For that reason few genetical changes fit the small wiggle room of getting through these constraints.