Federal authorities have announced that they are now intervening in the investigation of the killing of Trayvon Martin in Florida. That will certainly enhance the completion of forensic evidence, which we discussed earlier as critical to a case like this one. I have previously cautioned that this is not such an easy case as has been suggested, even with the 911 tapes. One of the greatest barriers is the Florida “Stand Your Ground” law.
I am as angry about this shooting as others. However, there remain difficult questions under the existing evidence. The intervention of the Justice Department adds an interesting element While racism has been alleged, the statement by the Justice Department notably does not lay out the basis for intervention and does not say that local police asked for the assistance. That may produce questions from the family why this is a federal matter as opposed to a local matter. While Zimmerman is described as “white,” his family has insisted that “George is a Spanish speaking minority with many black family members and friends.” That does not necessarily mean that this is not a hate crime or civil rights violation. However, it is possible that Zimmerman acted out of his zeal as a “watchman” as opposed to race — the stated view of the police chief.
The DOJ is clearly treating it as a racially motivated shooting since the Civil Rights Division, in conjunction with the FBI, is participating in the investigation. Justice Department spokeswoman Xochitl Hinojosa states “The department will conduct a thorough and independent review of all of the evidence and take appropriate action at the conclusion of the investigation. The department also is providing assistance to and cooperating with the state officials in their investigation into the incident.” Cooperating is a different matter than a request for assistance. If they were not asked for assistance by the police, the question is whether the Justice Department views the local police as itself somewhat suspect in the handling of the case. We previously discussed legitimate complaints about aspects of the police investigation.
The most significant issue is the Florida “Stand Your Ground” law. The law protects citizens in their use of lethal force in self-defense. The law, found in 20 states, is an expansion of the protection afforded under Castle doctrine or “Make My Day” laws for shootings in the home. I have long been a critic of those laws.
The key component of the law is that it allows lethal force when a person reasonably perceives a serious threat of harm and such force is reasonable under the circumstances. Zimmerman is likely to cite the fact that he was bleeding from the struggle — even though he outweighed the teen significantly and was armed.
The concern of these laws is that the use of reasonable force is already protected under the common law. The laws are read to offer broader protection than the common law, which already has ample protection for reasonable force. The law specifically negated the requirement of retreat under state law. The law states in pertinent part:
A person who is not engaged in an unlawful activity and who is attacked in any other place where he or she has a right to be has no duty to retreat and has the right to stand his or her ground and meet force with force, including deadly force if he or she reasonably believes it is necessary to do so to prevent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the commission of a forcible felony.
That still allows for serious question over whether, even if Martin did struggle with Zimmerman, there remains the notion of a fear of serious bodily injury.
I have said that aspects of the case remains murky. That is not to say that an indictment cannot be brought on the existing evidence, as I has said before. Again, the most salient facts against him are (1) the statement on the 911 tape showing animus, (2) the disregarded instructions not to follow Martin, (3) the advantage in weight and possession of a firearm in the struggle, and (4) the lack of any weapon or proof of criminal conduct by Martin.
While the basis for the intervention by the DOJ remains a bit murky itself, it may help with the many unanswered forensic questions. I am most interested in (1) the trajectory of the bullet, (2) the distance of the shooting, (3) the extent of injuries beyond the bullet wound on both men, and (4) the forensic analysis of the background of the 911 calls. Additionally, some have argued that the tape of Zimmerman has him using a racial slur, though many others have said that he is actually saying “punks.” An audio forensic expert could answer that question, which would relate directly to the purpose of the federal investigation.
Source: Washington Post
Focus Must Be Narrower
by Adam Winkler, a professor at the University of California, Los Angeles, School of Law and the author of “Gunfight: The Battle over the Right to Bear Arms in America.”
3/21/12
http://www.nytimes.com/roomfordebate/2012/03/21/do-stand-your-ground-laws-encourage-vigilantes/what-the-florida-stand-your-ground-law-says
Excerpt:
Stand Your Ground laws, which eliminate the longstanding legal requirement that a person threatened outside of his or her own home retreat rather than use force, are the latest manifestation of the political strength of the gun rights movement. First adopted in Florida in 2005, Stand Your Ground laws, drafted and promoted by the National Rifle Association, have since been enacted in some form in more than 20 states. The Trayvon Martin shooting suggests that, in the rush to adopt these laws, lawmakers and gun advocates have gone too far in authorizing the use of deadly force.
Although the facts of Trayvon Martin’s death remain uncertain, we know that George Zimmerman, who was active in the local neighborhood crime watch, suspected Martin was a criminal and shot him on a Florida street. Despite being instructed by police to stay away, Zimmerman confronted Martin. The situation escalated quickly into violence. The police have yet to arrest Zimmerman, apparently because Florida’s Stand Your Ground law entitled Zimmerman to use deadly force.
Florida legislators, however, insist the Stand Your Ground law does not provide a defense for people like Zimmerman, who pursue and confront someone. Florida Senator Durrell Peadon, who sponsored the law, said that Zimmerman “has no protection under my law.” According to state Representative Dennis Baxley, “There’s nothing in this statute that authorizes you to pursue and confront people.” The law, Baxley notes, was designed only “to prevent you from being attacked by other people.”
The problem is that nothing in Peadon and Baxley’s law says this. It provides that any person may use deadly force when “he or she reasonably believes that such force is necessary to prevent imminent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another.” So long as someone reasonably thinks he or someone else is in danger, he can shoot to kill, regardless of whether the shooter is the one who initiated the hostile confrontation.
TPMMuckraker
ALEC, NRA Pushed ‘Stand Your Ground’ Legislation At Center Of Trayvon Martin Killing
Ryan J. Reilly March 22, 2012
http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com/2012/03/stand_your_ground_legislation_that_may_have_let_tr.php?ref=fpnewsfeed
Excerpt:
Florida was the first state in the country to pass such a bill, but they weren’t the last. And like many legislative trends, this one has its roots in the conservative American Legislative Exchange Counsel (ALEC).
Minutes documenting a 2005 meeting from an old ALEC website provided to TPM by the Center for Media and Democracy and Common Cause show that Marion Hammer of the National Rifle Association (NRA) pitched model legislation to ALEC’s Criminal Justice Task Force. An old NRA update also documented the meeting. “Her talk was well-received, and the task force subsequently adopted the measure unanimously,” the NRA wrote in an Aug. 12, 2005 post on the NRA website.
As Matt Gertz writes over at Media Matters, Florida’s law is “virtually identical” to the so-called “Castle Doctrine Act” proposed by ALEC and the NRA’s suggestion.
Tony C. 1, March 22, 2012 at 7:57 am
…
The whole point of us having the power to elect politicians is that we expect the politicians to try and please us so we will vote for them again. If they are not motivated by their own moral outrage, then by our own design we want them to be motivated by OURS.
================================
Tru dat.
We have evolved into The Kingdom of Etch-a-Sketchia, a suburb of Bullshitstan.
A Plutocracy with little regard for “the little people” together with impunity for the ruling elite.
Constitutional laws become disrespected in such premises.
@sheaffer: Hard to support such quick Federal action for such obvious political purposes.
I do not care why the right thing is done, just that the right thing is done.
The whole point of us having the power to elect politicians is that we expect the politicians to try and please us so we will vote for them again. If they are not motivated by their own moral outrage, then by our own design we want them to be motivated by OURS.
I feel outraged at this murder. I am not the same race, age, or economic class as anybody involved in it, but I feel outrage nonetheless. I do not make the stupid assumption that Obama or Holder are incapable of outrage, but in the event that they are, I am glad they feel motivated by ours, and it would be racist bigotry to attribute their actions to racial solidarity when the more universal moral outrage at a blatant stalking and killing of a young man is their most likely motive.
Pete,
“Justice Department spokeswoman Xochitl Hinojosa states
bet tv newsreaders love it when her name shows up on their teleprompter.”
Easy!
XO like you’re scarfing up some spit, CHI like KI, TL like TL;
The rest is clear.
Do you believe me? Have you heard their versions, or do they ignore it by redacting.
wonderful, you should try pronouncing gambian indian, kurdish, turkish, colombian, eritrean, ethiopian, somalian, iraqi, iranian,lebanese, moroccan, etc. I have several more, but you get the idea.
PC requires cosmopolitan capabilities. Think of Herodotos.
sheafferhitorian, I would agree with you except there is enough in the news that I have doubts about the adequacy of the local investigation.
I admit, I do not know what really happened. I don’t think anyone knows at this time. But now is the time to try to preserve the evidence that still exists.
I don’t doubt that the federal decision is essentially political. But isn’t the whole point of government to respond to legitimate concerns of citizens?
I think the kindest think one can say about the local investigation is that since their view is that there was no crime then they did not investigate very much. Those with a more cynical view might make far less charitable remarks.
Sure its political when the administration responds to the outcry of citizens. In this case it appears that the questions and concerns are reasonable.
This is an example of politics when it works.
Unless your are prepared to argue that DOJ cannot be trusted to make an impartial investigation, I think you ought to get on board and say this is good news.
Hard to support such quick Federal action for such obvious political purposes.
None of it adds up Curious. This guy was out to murder the kid and the Florida authorities were going to allow it.
Anybody else curious that during 911 call Zimmerman says Martin has his hand in his waistband? (I presume it is supposed to create the possibility of going for a gun that was tucked in his waistband.) How do you do that when you are on your phone and carrying iced tea and Skittles?
The DOJ is clearly treating it as a racially motivated shooting since the Civil Rights Division, in conjunction with the FBI, is participating in the investigation. Justice Department spokeswoman Xochitl Hinojosa states
bet tv newsreaders love it when her name shows up on their teleprompter.
This young man’s life extinguished by execution. Compelling legal arguments aside, my tears drop steadily as a mother, American Citizen and decent human being.
I believe the Troy Davis case caused OWS to grow tremendously last fall. The people are intense, they know injustice. This case adds more fuel to the fire.
http://occupystreams.org/item/occupy-wall-street-timcast Huge march by OWS ongoing. “We are Treyvon Martin”.
Grand Jury Secret Trial, how convenient. Wish someone could explain that to me.
“Smokin'”?
“Only when I torch cars with Whitey in’em”.
“Thas fine, can I help”?
“Seein’ youse my buddy, you get firsties.”
————-
Care to continue the dialogue anyone?
Just trying to do justice to “porgy and bess” which was written after several months of study on site by George Gershwin in “disadvantaged” communities. If you want to see some white ones, google Disfarmer or go to disfarmer.com. people are beautiful. corporations are evil. very simple.
Damn good digging Dredd.
Now if you could just convince Pork Chop that there has been no investigation in Sanford by the “poooo-lees”. He’s got 30 years law practice and says press reports are shit sources. Got any other proof.
You who digs in DA and other files.
Good man. I’ll vote for you. What cha runnin’ for??
Mespo said it all. The wind is blowing and it is saying that it is illegal to walk in that town while black.
I still say Obama said to Holder: “Calm this shit down, I don’t want to lose my brothers’ votes.” and Holder sends the cavalry.
I just wish big O would pull out posthaste from Afghanistan.
But the SS, DoD, FBI and the CIA would have a new turkeyshoot.
Or as we saw in the video: “What’s my agenda?” , “Bomb Baghdad!”,
“You got it.”.
Can we make a sidebet; that Civil Rights is the smallest division in the DoJ?
At the time JT posted things were a bit different, in the sense that he said:
I have found a letter from the City of Sanford that says:
(Letter, PDF). That may explain why DOJ, in addition to the national outcry, got involved.
Idealist,
You base your opinions on “the reported facts in the press”. It may surprise you to learn that the press often gets the facts wrong, particularly in criminal investigations. I am acutely aware of that after 30+ years practicing law. We have prosecutors, grand juries, and trial courts (and defense attorneys) for a reason — to get the facts. Maybe it is different in Sweden.
You conveniently ignore the statement in my first post that I don’t know if the shooter is guilty or innocent of a crime and the statement that based on the reports he probably will be found guilty of some form of homicide. But of course that depends on whether the facts reported in the press are really facts.
Civil Rights Leaders Call On Florida Governor To Suspend George Zimmerman’s Concealed Carry Permit
By Judd Legum on Mar 21
http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2012/03/21/449414/florida-governor-suspend-zimmermans-concealed-carry-permit/