Courts, Criminal law, Lawyering, Politics

New Witness Reportedly Comes Forward In Support Of Zimmerman’s Account in Martin Shooting

The facts behind the killing of 17-year-old Trayvon Martin in Florida continue to slowly emerge. I have previously stated that I view critical facts as murky for a prosecution — even though I believe that there was sufficient evidence to arrest George Zimmerman at the scene. While we have still not seen some of the forensic evidence, a new report indicates that police may have based their initial decisions in part on the statement of a witness. We have been discussing the maddening gap in witness testimony at the critical moment of the confrontation. Now a new report suggests that there may have been a witness to the struggle and that witness reportedly told police that it was Martin who was on top of Zimmerman before the fatal shot was fired.


FOX 35 in Orlando says that it has spoken to the witness. The witness reportedly said that
“The guy on the bottom who had a red sweater on was yelling to me: ‘help, help…and I told him to stop and I was calling 911.” Martin was wearing a hoodie that night and Zimmerman was wearing a red shirt or sweater. A friend of Zimmerman has also come forward to say that Zimmerman looked like a mess after the fight and that he recognized Zimmerman as the voice on the 911 call asking people to help him.

An obvious defense case is emerging for a classic self-defense claim. Zimmerman on the 911 tape admits to have shadowed Martin but says it was Martin who was checking him out and moving toward him a threatening fashion. Zimmerman claims that he was attacked when he was returning to his SUV. Police and counsel reported that Zimmerman had cuts on his face and head and appeared to have been in a struggle. Zimmerman was lawfully carrying a handgun was allowed to use the weapon if he was in reasonable fear of serious bodily injury or death. This includes the possible use of the gun in a struggle of control of the weapon.

While the case has been treated as racially motivated, the Zimmerman family has strongly denied such a motivation — noting that he is a hispanic with many African-American friends. Frankly, Zimmerman does closely resemble an alternative profile — that of a defendant in “Castle Doctrine” or “Stand Your Ground” cases. In these controversies, we often see people who are obsessed with crime and in some cases inclined to use lethal force. That does not mean that race did not play a role here. However, it is possible that Zimmerman was motivated by his well-documented obsession with crime as opposed to race. While I understand the sensitivity to the race issue and have my own suspicions concerning the role of race, I believe it is premature to label this a racially motivated crime without more evidence of such a motive. None of this means that Zimmerman should not be charged, but rather than there remain murky elements to the case. We simply need to know more about such motivations. In terms of the state law, we also need more information (particularly forensic evidence) to better gauge the chances of a conviction in the case. I still find the fact that Zimmerman was armed and outweighed Martin to be the most significant. However, this case is still in its earliest stage in terms of development of the evidence and witnesses. Among other things, if a charge is brought, such evidence could push prosecutors toward a manslaughter claim with a lower likely sentence than second or first degree murder. Even with manslaughter, the prosecutors would have to establish the element beyond a reasonable doubt, including the claim of self-defense. Of course, the mere fact that Martin may have gotten the better of Zimmerman in dominating fight at one point does not mean that Zimmerman was not the original aggressor. It will depend on the full range of witness testimony and, again, the missing forensic evidence.

I was asked last week to sign an online petition demanding the prosecution of Zimmerman. As I have noted, I believe that there is sufficient evidence for an indictment. However, I have never support such public campaigns for indictments. I do not believe in prosecution by plebiscite. Whether there are 100 or 100,000 people demanding an indictment, a prosecutor should not be influenced by such popular outcries. We saw how distortive and corrupting such campaigns can be on prosecutors like Michael Nifong. Prosecutors must based their decisions on the weight of the evidence not the weight of public opinion. Regardless of my views about a possible indictment, I would not want a prosecutor influenced by any petition supporting those views. There is a line between the visceral and the legal and such petitions fall on the wrong side of that line.

Source: Daily Mail

270 thoughts on “New Witness Reportedly Comes Forward In Support Of Zimmerman’s Account in Martin Shooting”

  1. http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-03-26/news/os-trayvon-martin-zimmerman-account-20120326_1_arizona-iced-tea-suv-unarmed-black-teenager
    Zimmerman states his case in Orlando Sentinel.

    “Zimmerman got out of his SUV to follow Trayvon on foot. When a dispatch employee asked Zimmerman if he was following the 17-year-old, Zimmerman said yes. The dispatcher told Zimmerman he did not need to do that.

    There is about a one-minute gap during which police say they’re not sure what happened.

    Zimmerman told them he lost sight of Trayvon and was walking back to his SUV when Trayvon approached him from the left rear, and they exchanged words.

    Trayvon asked Zimmerman if he had a problem. Zimmerman said no and reached for his cell phone, he told police.

    Trayvon then said, “Well, you do now” or something similar and punched Zimmerman in the nose.

    Zimmerman fell to the ground and Trayvon got on top of him and began slamming his head into the sidewalk, he told police.

    Zimmerman began yelling for help.

    Several witnesses heard those cries, and there’s been a dispute about from whom they came: Zimmerman or Trayvon.

    Lawyers for Trayvon’s family say it was Trayvon, but police say their evidence indicates it was Zimmerman.

    One witnesses, who has since talked to local television news reporters, told police he saw Zimmerman on the ground with Trayvon on top, pounding him and was unequivocal that it was Zimmerman who was crying for help.

    Zimmerman then shot Trayvon once in the chest from very close range, according to authorities.

    When police arrived less than two minutes later, Zimmerman was bleeding from the nose, had a swollen lip and had bloody lacerations to the back of his head.

    Paramedics gave him first aid, but he said no to going to the hospital. He got medical care the next day.”

  2. “Some commenter above called Zimmerman a pseudo cop. He has been called Watchman, Watch Commander, Night Watchman and a number of appellations. Who gave him these titles? If it was the cops alone then they damn near deputized him.” -Talkin Dog

    These practices are more common than many realize. The entire, “community policing” system needs to be fully examined starting with law enforcement (federal, state and local), the Neighborhood Watch groups (both the formal and informal ones), Citizens on Patrol, InfraGard, and other participating entities.

  4. Some commenter above called Zimmerman a pseudo cop. He has been called Watchman, Watch Commander, Night Watchman and a number of appellations. Who gave him these titles? If it was the cops alone then they damn near deputized him. If it was some homeowners association then he was their agent. In either situation the plaintiffs (family) have defendants besides Zimmerman in their civil suit.

  5. What Malisha said.
    Treyvon is protected by “stand your ground”.
    Zimmerman was not standing, but tracking with a loaded gun.

  6. Bdaman,

    I thought the Sanford police department said that Zimmerman had acted in self defense. How could they have drawn that conclusion if the investigation wasn’t complete? They didn’t test him for drugs or alcohol. They hadn’t checked out Martin’s cell phone records. One witness was told by a detective that he wasn’t interested in her account because it differed from Zimmerman’s. Check out links to some of the news reports I posted earlier in this thread. It appears there may be lots of holes in the investigation of the death of this teen.

  7. why not admit that the Sanford police department screwed up its investigation of Trayvon Martin’s murder. Had the police done what they should have in this case–there wouldn’t have been such an outcry.

    If my child had been shot by some “pseudo cop” who decided to take the law into his own hands and the police claimed the man had acted in self defense and let him go free without any kind of testing for drugs or alcohol or any real investigation–I’d be an extremely angry mother. I, too, would DEMAND justice for my child!

    MS. Elaine how do you know there wasn’t a thorough investigation. Because of what the media tells you? Angela Corey our local state attorney is on the case.
    http://www.firstcoastnews.com/topstories/article/249319/483/FCN-Exclusive-Angela-Corey-Talks-About-Trayvon-Martin-Case

    Before you rushed to judgement let the facts come out. Even though it’s a slow process. On our local radio program she was interviewed and said it is not uncommon for an investigation to take this long in these types of cases.

  8. fluffyros,

    I don’t think anyone should be expected to deal with all outrageous acts of crime. It’s not simply a matter of how heinous a crime regarding it’s newsworthiness but rather its relevant legal matters such a case might engender. No doubt the Sarasota case was bad, but did it raise any real legal predicaments?

    Rather than cherry picking random cases, it’s better to address the issues at hand.

  9. Bdaman, Your point is valid. Lots of cases of violent acts out there don’t get the attention they need. The Martin case was also going to fall thru the cracks but for the public attention. Guess you’re glass half empty sort or you could work your own p.r. so these other cases get the attention for the right kind of investigation.

  10. Bdaman,

    Rather than trying to call into question the character of a young teen who cannot defend himself against the accusations of others, why not admit that the Sanford police department screwed up its investigation of Trayvon Martin’s murder. Had the police done what they should have in this case–there wouldn’t have been such an outcry.

    If my child had been shot by some “pseudo cop” who decided to take the law into his own hands and the police claimed the man had acted in self defense and let him go free without any kind of testing for drugs or alcohol or any real investigation–I’d be an extremely angry mother. I, too, would DEMAND justice for my child!

  11. It’s not necessarily a matter of “either/or” regarding race/crime obsession. Zimmerman seems to me to have been obsessed with crime, but he also seems to have profiled Martin based on his being African American.

    In other words, Zimmerman was on the lookout for a certain profile of a persona and Martin fit it even though it seems also that Martin was doing absolutely nothing wrong. In this case, Zimmerman wasn’t standing his ground in the traditional sense, but actively pursuing Martin and creating the threat.

    That Martin might have attacked him is actually a case for Martin “standing his ground.” Martin didn’t know this guy. He was just walking on the street. Zimmerman was following in his car and then got out of it. What was Martin supposed to think? I don’t doubt that he was probably nervous, as anyone of us would be. Rather than wait for Zimmerman to attack, Martin probably struck out at him, but it was ZImmerman who probably created the situation.

    Point is, Mr. Turley, even if that witness saw Martin on top, the witness did not see what led up to that point, which really could be favoring Martin, not Zimmerman.

  12. As long as someone other than that ridiculous police chief is investigating this matter:

    And speaking of Chief Lee

    Norton Bonaparte, Jr., Sanford city manager, on the future of Police Chief Bill Lee, Jr., :

    “…. I’ve asked for an independent review by a law enforcement entity to come and tell me how did the Sanford Police Department do. Based upon that information and when I have that information, then I’ll certainly be in a position to make a determination about the future of Chief Lee as well as the entire Sanford Police Department.”

  15. IT CALL ADRENALINE WHEN SOME ONE A STRANGER AT THAT IS ATTACKING YOU , HE STILL GZ SHOULD NEVER GOT OUT OF HIS CAR WITH A LOAED GUN WITH THA ATTITUDE AAN A APPROCH A YOUNG MEN , HE HAD THE POWER TO LEAVE BEFORE HE GOT OUT TO A PERSON LET SAY WAS NOT GLADE TO SEE HIM AND VICE VERSA .

  18. Correction to my prior comment that said that the affirmative defense of self defense can only be raised at trial. Actually it can be raised by pre-trial motion in Florida:

    Traditionally, if a person was anywhere but their home, the Self Defense law required a person to attempt to first retreat before engaging an aggressor. And to further complicate matters, the defense could only be raised at trial. But in October of 2005, Florida passed the Stand Your Ground Law, which dramatically changed the legal landscape of self defense law.

    Under the Stand Your Ground Law, a person who is attacked has no duty to retreat and has the right to stand their ground and meet force with force, including deadly force if it is reasonably believed necessary to to prevent death or great bodily harm or to prevent the commission of a forcible felony.

    Also, the Stand Your Ground Law now allows a person to raise the issue of Self Defense both at a Pretrial Hearing and at trial. As a result, if a judge finds that your actions were justified, the Judge is required to dismiss the charges and no trial is required. If the judge does not find your actions were justified, the defense can still be presented to a jury and they can make their own independent determination of whether your actions were justified.

    (Florida Criminal Law). That does not change the fact that the police usurped the court and ruled in favor of Zimmerman.

    Had they arrested Zimmerman, he would have pre-trial motions to try to prove his self defense case, and even if a judge did not agree with him, he could still present that affirmative defense to the jury.

    The police did not have the authority to remove the case from the court process once Zimmerman admitted to doing the killing.

  19. Lobbyists, Guns and Money
    By PAUL KRUGMAN
    Published: March 25, 2012
    http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/26/opinion/krugman-lobbyists-guns-and-money.html?_r=1

    Excerpt:
    Florida’s now-infamous Stand Your Ground law, which lets you shoot someone you consider threatening without facing arrest, let alone prosecution, sounds crazy — and it is. And it’s tempting to dismiss this law as the work of ignorant yahoos. But similar laws have been pushed across the nation, not by ignorant yahoos but by big corporations.

    Specifically, language virtually identical to Florida’s law is featured in a template supplied to legislators in other states by the American Legislative Exchange Council, a corporate-backed organization that has managed to keep a low profile even as it exerts vast influence (only recently, thanks to yeoman work by the Center for Media and Democracy, has a clear picture of ALEC’s activities emerged). And if there is any silver lining to Trayvon Martin’s killing, it is that it might finally place a spotlight on what ALEC is doing to our society — and our democracy.

    What is ALEC? Despite claims that it’s nonpartisan, it’s very much a movement-conservative organization, funded by the usual suspects: the Kochs, Exxon Mobil, and so on. Unlike other such groups, however, it doesn’t just influence laws, it literally writes them, supplying fully drafted bills to state legislators. In Virginia, for example, more than 50 ALEC-written bills have been introduced, many almost word for word. And these bills often become law.

  20. I’m not making a defense for anyone here. I do see that many people here assume Z was stalking M. However, if Z was moving away to his SUV and M attacked, then self-defense is needed.

    My point is, this case has exploded and many people are making many assumptions about the case. If police did lead witnesses and acted inappropriatly, then it is my sincerest hope that the truth comes out.

    I also assumed Z was guilty at first, then I saw the significant number of conflicting accounts on the news. Hopefully the federal investigators can get to the bottom of it without the need for petitions. Justice means that Z gets his say as well.

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