The facts behind the killing of 17-year-old Trayvon Martin in Florida continue to slowly emerge. I have previously stated that I view critical facts as murky for a prosecution — even though I believe that there was sufficient evidence to arrest George Zimmerman at the scene. While we have still not seen some of the forensic evidence, a new report indicates that police may have based their initial decisions in part on the statement of a witness. We have been discussing the maddening gap in witness testimony at the critical moment of the confrontation. Now a new report suggests that there may have been a witness to the struggle and that witness reportedly told police that it was Martin who was on top of Zimmerman before the fatal shot was fired.
FOX 35 in Orlando says that it has spoken to the witness. The witness reportedly said that
“The guy on the bottom who had a red sweater on was yelling to me: ‘help, help…and I told him to stop and I was calling 911.” Martin was wearing a hoodie that night and Zimmerman was wearing a red shirt or sweater. A friend of Zimmerman has also come forward to say that Zimmerman looked like a mess after the fight and that he recognized Zimmerman as the voice on the 911 call asking people to help him.
An obvious defense case is emerging for a classic self-defense claim. Zimmerman on the 911 tape admits to have shadowed Martin but says it was Martin who was checking him out and moving toward him a threatening fashion. Zimmerman claims that he was attacked when he was returning to his SUV. Police and counsel reported that Zimmerman had cuts on his face and head and appeared to have been in a struggle. Zimmerman was lawfully carrying a handgun was allowed to use the weapon if he was in reasonable fear of serious bodily injury or death. This includes the possible use of the gun in a struggle of control of the weapon.
While the case has been treated as racially motivated, the Zimmerman family has strongly denied such a motivation — noting that he is a hispanic with many African-American friends. Frankly, Zimmerman does closely resemble an alternative profile — that of a defendant in “Castle Doctrine” or “Stand Your Ground” cases. In these controversies, we often see people who are obsessed with crime and in some cases inclined to use lethal force. That does not mean that race did not play a role here. However, it is possible that Zimmerman was motivated by his well-documented obsession with crime as opposed to race. While I understand the sensitivity to the race issue and have my own suspicions concerning the role of race, I believe it is premature to label this a racially motivated crime without more evidence of such a motive. None of this means that Zimmerman should not be charged, but rather than there remain murky elements to the case. We simply need to know more about such motivations. In terms of the state law, we also need more information (particularly forensic evidence) to better gauge the chances of a conviction in the case. I still find the fact that Zimmerman was armed and outweighed Martin to be the most significant. However, this case is still in its earliest stage in terms of development of the evidence and witnesses. Among other things, if a charge is brought, such evidence could push prosecutors toward a manslaughter claim with a lower likely sentence than second or first degree murder. Even with manslaughter, the prosecutors would have to establish the element beyond a reasonable doubt, including the claim of self-defense. Of course, the mere fact that Martin may have gotten the better of Zimmerman in dominating fight at one point does not mean that Zimmerman was not the original aggressor. It will depend on the full range of witness testimony and, again, the missing forensic evidence.
I was asked last week to sign an online petition demanding the prosecution of Zimmerman. As I have noted, I believe that there is sufficient evidence for an indictment. However, I have never support such public campaigns for indictments. I do not believe in prosecution by plebiscite. Whether there are 100 or 100,000 people demanding an indictment, a prosecutor should not be influenced by such popular outcries. We saw how distortive and corrupting such campaigns can be on prosecutors like Michael Nifong. Prosecutors must based their decisions on the weight of the evidence not the weight of public opinion. Regardless of my views about a possible indictment, I would not want a prosecutor influenced by any petition supporting those views. There is a line between the visceral and the legal and such petitions fall on the wrong side of that line.
Source: Daily Mail
remember when in floriduh, if someone is stalking you, don’t fight back, shoot.
otay
AN
thanks for the bad news. will store it handy and pass on when can.
just to give us something real to be “terrorized” by, it’s actuality is almost comforting. the boodiemen you can’t imagine are worst. Now all we have to do is look at the patrolcar and imagined five unmarked ones in addition.
Have they started selliing bug searching equipment at Walmarts yet?
We must quote POGO again.
“We’ve met the enemy, and they are us.”
First the heart hurts when I read someone say that the last sound before the shot was a teenaged wail of despondency.
Can you imagine Trayvon on top, situation under control, he thinks; and Z. gets a chance to pull the gun, points it and pauses to savor the moment and the look in Travon’s eyes when he realizes he’s a dead boy.
And Z. pulls the trigger anyway instead of saying: “Back off.”
No, he pulls the trigger on an unarmed person—-that he knows now.
He is a cold-blooded murderer.
If it was as above with Trayvon on top, then it should have been some of his blood on Z’s shirt. Evidence. Arrest and secure the evidence, including weapon.
Don’t look for justice anymore until
:
Close all citizen surveillance programs.
Legalize pot.
Attack the roots of problems, not the expression of them.
All narcotic sentences for simple possession should be commuted to one year (so as to give time for repatriation to society)
All other narcotics sentences, except for those involving heavy trading, violence etc should be maxed with 66 percent rebate.
Demount all wars, including on terror.
___________________________________
Elect Gene H. as President. Do you accept the nomination?
Elaine as Vice
Blouise as CIA
SwM as Defense
Lottta as State
Mike S as FBI
Tony C for Energy
MCM for Culture ( a new post)
MM for poetry (also new)
OS for whatever he likes
and Dredd for future planning (also new post)
Bdaman to drive the Iranians mad
TalkingDog to run Agrobusiness
ANON to help Bdaman
and OS to outfox our other foreign opponent in unexpected planning.
and me for nit-picker in chief
and selected others as congressmen and SCOTUS. Turley as Chief Justice.
It has all been so tainted now, by all the media speculation and suppositions, it may ber too late to trust anyone who comes forward. And how in the world could you find un unbiased jurypool?
Although I hope the authorities have or mean to competently vet this unknown witness, their shameful track record in this case to date leaves me utterly hopeless.
The first thing that bothered me about this case, after the fact the ‘investigation’ seemed anything is that it was assumed it was racial without any basis other then Mr, Martin was an African American male. To me regardless of his color it s hould not have happened and needed to be taken more seriously. The possibility (probability) of a hate crime only makes it more heinous but someone was killed, in cold blood, y some guy who seems to have thght he was in the old west, Florida legislators giving him, saldy, reason to think so.
I hope one major outsome of this is the revocation of these laws . (and thanks for the info on ALEC. I had never heard of that until a post a few days back and did not know what it stood for until now. Skull and Bones, citizens united, and Alec, perfet trifecta.)
ALEX and the NRA are just part of the problem. Community Policing, while on its face, benign, is anything but…
Ten Years Later: Surveillance in the “Homeland” is a collaborative project with Truthout and ACLU Massachusetts.
The New Surveillance Society: How “Community” Policing Follows Your Every Move
“A new notion of “community policing” has emerged, where monitoring communities has taken the place of solving crimes.”
TruthOut and ACLU Massachusetts / By Nancy Murray and Kade Crockford
September 8, 2011
http://www.alternet.org/story/152346/the_new_surveillance_society%3A_how_%22community%22_policing_follows_your_every_move?page=entire
Surveillance now is everyone’s business, as the line between intelligence-gathering and crimefighting rapidly fades and the public is conditioned to play its part.
The work of Deputy Police Chief Michael Downing of the Los Angeles Police Department (LAPD) exemplifies the new surveillance paradigm. The head of the 750-strong counterterrorism force within the LAPD, he is on the hunt for “people who follow al-Qaeda’s goals and objectives and mission and ideology.” He says his officers collect intelligence and practice the “essence of community policing” by reaching out to Muslims and asking them to “weed out” the “hard-core radicals.”
He adds that he is pleased that many Muslims have adopted the LAPD’s iWatch program and are prepared, along with the general public, to call in tips about suspicious activity. With “violent Islamists” as his main target, Chief Downing is also keeping track of “black separatists, white supremacist/sovereign citizen extremists and animal rights terrorists.” If threats materialize, he can draw upon the LAPD’s “amazing” backup capacity – SWAT units, direct-action teams, air support, counterassault teams and squads that specialize in disrupting vehicle bombs.
Here we see several of the components of the new surveillance society. A militarized police force no longer leaves intelligence work to federal authorities. It seeks out information about anything that can be connected to “suspicious” activity and is keeping track of certain individuals and groups whether or not there is evidence that they are engaging in criminal activity. Police are expected to chase down unsubstantiated tips from the public, and not just to pursue evidence of wrongdoing. A new notion of “community policing” has emerged, where monitoring communities – with all the trust issues that this implies – has taken the place of winning community support by being accountable to residents and solving crimes.
The LAPD is one of some 3,984 federal, state and local agencies now collecting information about “suspicious activity” that could be related to terrorism. The Washington Post’s “Top Secret America” series states that 854,000 people now hold “top-secret” security clearance. We estimate that’s about one for every 215 working-age Americans. An additional 3 million people reportedly hold “secret” security clearance.
The federal government spends more annually on civilian and military intelligence than the rest of the world put together – $80 billion is a conservative figure, according to the October 28, 2010, Post. This is in addition to the $42-plus billion allocated to the Department of Homeland Security (DHS) and the spending on intelligence activities by the LAPD and other state and local police forces. The homeland security industry is flourishing, with lucrative contracts being awarded to Lockheed Martin, Raytheon, Boeing, Northrop Grumman and other major defense contractors. (end of excerpt)
(Ten Years Later: Surveillance in the “Homeland” is a collaborative project with Truthout and ACLU Massachusetts.)
shano 1, March 26, 2012 at 1:21 pm
anon nurse: One thing that puzzles me, Why didn’t Zimmerman identify himself to Trayvon? He could have said “Neighborhoood Watch” or some such thing, just to let Martin know his intentions!
———-
shano,
Absolutely. I didn’t say it, but wondered, as well. That’s exactly what many would do, in the same situation.
But the more that I think about it, he probably didn’t do so because he had already decided that Trayvon was “up to no good.” His comments to 911, as I recall them (paraphrasing loosely): He’s messed up, he’s on drugs or something. He had already decided that Trayvon was guilty of something: “These assholes always get away.” (repeating myself)
—-
And what Gene said. Given the domestic program of which I’m aware, our democracy is most certainly being destroyed “from within”, as Gene noted. If we hit this problem from all angles, we might just have a fighting chance.
Gene,
How ALEC Is Creating Florida-Style Messes In Other States
John Nichols on March 26, 2012
http://www.thenation.com/blog/167041/how-alec-creating-florida-style-messes-other-states
Excerpt:
Wisconsin is a rod-and-gun state, with a hunting history that has fostered traditions of broad gun ownership and respect for the right to bear arms.
So how did Wisconsin get saddled with a “Castle Doctrine” law that mirrors some of the worst aspects of the Florida legislation that’s now at the center of the controversy over the killing of 17-year-old Trayvon Martin.
Not because sportsmen and women, law enforcement officers, legal scholars or grassroots citizens decided Wisconsin should borrow bad ideas from distant states.
Wisconsin has a “Castle Doctrine” law because the American Legislative Exchange Council, the corporate-funded group that aligns special-interest organizations and corporate donors with pliable legislators, made the Florida law “model legislation.” Then ALEC-aligned political insiders such as Assembly Majority Leader Scott Suder, a national ALEC task-force member, and Governor Scott Walker, an ALEC alumnus, introduced, passed and signed “Castle Doctrine” legislation — despite warnings from Wisconsin law enforcement leaders and responsible gun owners that it was a poor fit for the state.
How poor a fit became evident last week, when the district attorney in Wisconsin’s Washington County announced that he would not pursue a serious inquiry into the death of Bo Morrison, a 20-year-old Wisconsinite who was shot and killed in the village of Slinger. Morrison, who had been at a underage drinking party that was broken up by the police was one of a number of young people who ran and hid in the surrounding neighborhood. He was hiding on the porch of an adjacent home when the homeowner — who knew police were in the area — shot him in the chest. The DA determined that the homeowner was protected from prosecution by the state’s new “Castle Doctrine.”
The Wisconsin case is complicated, and no one has suggested that Morrison was a perfect player. But he was unarmed. And there is no evidence that he physically or verbally threatened the shooter. For that reason, the decision of the DA , and the narrowing of options for a proper investigation by the “Castle Doctrine, has provoked outrage from citizens and some legislators. State Representative Chris Taylor, a Madison Democrat and a lawyer who was outspoken in her opposition to the measure last year, now says: “It is heartbreaking that the legislature allowed this reckless law to go forward and now a young man is dead,” concluded Taylor. “This law encourages people to resort to vigilantism and use deadly force instead of calling the police. This is a barbaric law that must be immediately repealed.”
But how did the legislature enact a measure that is so out-of-synch with the state’s traditionally well-reasoned approach to gun rights, self-defense protections and the rule of law?
Wisconsin circumstance is like that of many states that find themselves with laws that owe more to the heavy hand of the American Legislative Exchange Council — and the determined lobbying of the National Rifle Association — than to realities on the ground of the concerns of citizens.
The genesis for the Wisconsin law Wisconsin was a 2005 Florida law, which provided immunity to individuals who use deadly force against unarmed persons who they imagine to be threatening. The Wisconsin law provides that immunity for shootings that take place on or around dwellings, businesses and vehicles, while the Florida law includes broader “stand your ground” language that protects shootings in public spaces. But the distinction is slimmer than it seems, as Wisconsin statutes extend the definition of a “dwelling” out to porches, fence lines and sidewalks.
Florida’s law was sponsored by Republican legislators who were ALEC members. They dismissed explicit and repeated warnings that this measure would encourage shootings like that of Trayvon Martin. The same went for Florida Governor Jeb Bush, who signed the measure and declared it a “common sense” reform.
If any good is to come from this tragedy, I’d like it to be that not just the “Stand Your Ground ” laws come under a high level of scrutiny. I’d like for it to be that all ALEC sponsored legislation comes under a high level of scrutiny as well as the organization and its members in general and their general interference with and manipulation of the legislative process and the laws of the this country. ALEC exemplifies all that is wrong with the privatization/Corporatist plague that is destroying our democracy from within.
anon nurse: One thing that puzzles me, Why didn’t Zimmerman identify himself to Trayvon? He could have said “Neighborhoood Watch” or some such thing, just to let Martin know his intentions!
“Simply having a black woman as the head of the task force looking into the Stand Your Ground law might not be sufficient in calming those tensions Governor Scott is experiencing in the black community.”
http://www.thegrio.com/specials/trayvon-martin/trayvon-martin-case-florida-governor-rick-scott-lt-gov-jennifer-carroll-under-fire.php
“Zimmerman got out of his SUV to follow Trayvon on foot.” -from the Orlando Sentinel account provided by shano
And that was the beginning of the end for Trayvon. Zimmerman had no business following him. (One account is that Zimmerman got out of his vehicle to check the street sign. Again, no need to get out of the vehicle. One doesn’t have to exit a vehicle to check a street sign.)
Why did he pursue on foot? Because in his own words, “These assholes always get away.” And because Zimmerman was a cop wanna-be.
“…and light needs to be shed on these “Castle Doctrine” or “Stand Your Ground” laws that are being encouraged/written by groups like ALEC.” -Elaine M.
Absolutely.
Carmen Caldwell, the Executive Director of Citizens’ Crime Watch of Miami-Dade, told theGrio. “Every city and municipality has their own policies. Here in Miami-Dade we train people only to be the eyes and ears of their communities. Not to follow and most definitely not to carry a weapon.” (from Elaine’s link)
There are others who “follow” and participate in broader surveillance activities — the “Citizens on Patrol” (COPs — an unfortunate acronym), among others. It’s time for an in-depth investigation of how America is being “policed.”
How could George Zimmerman claim “self-defense” when he was carrying a gun? A person has to ask.
anon nurse,
I agree–and light needs to be shed on these “Castle Doctrine” or “Stand Your Ground” laws that are being encouraged/written by groups like ALEC.
Thanks for the link and info, Elaine M. It’s a start, but there are some systemic problems and issues that need to come to light. The entire “community policing” system needs to be reviewed and investigated.
George Zimmerman not a member of recognized neighborhood watch organization
By Alexis Garrett Stodghill
http://www.thegrio.com/specials/trayvon-martin/zimmerman-not-a-member-of-recognized-neighborhood-watch-organization.php
Excerpt;
When 28-year-old George Zimmerman was discovered by Sanford, Florida police standing over the body of 17-year-old Trayvon Martin, they accepted Zimmerman’s claim that he killed in self-defense as a neighborhood watch captain. Now, through a statement released by the National Sheriffs’ Association (NSA) — the parent organization of USAonWatch-Neighborhood Watch — it has been revealed that Zimmerman was not a member of any group recognized by the organization. Zimmerman violated the central tenets of Neighborhood Watch by following Martin, confronting him and carrying a concealed weapon.
“In no program that I have ever heard of does someone patrol with a gun in their pocket,” Carmen Caldwell, the Executive Director of Citizens’ Crime Watch of Miami-Dade, told theGrio. “Every city and municipality has their own policies. Here in Miami-Dade we train people only to be the eyes and ears of their communities. Not to follow and most definitely not to carry a weapon.”
Despite this, Zimmerman admitted that he had fired a weapon on the night of the incident. In addition, the non-emergency call Zimmerman placed on February 26 before the shooting revealed he had been pursuing Martin by car before accosting the youth on foot — all direct violations of Neighborhood Watch policies.
“The alleged action of a ‘self-appointed neighborhood watchman’ last month in Sanford, FL significantly contradicts the principles of the Neighborhood Watch Program,” NSA Executive Director Aaron D. Kennard, Sheriff (ret.) said in the press statement. “NSA has no information indicating the community where the incident occurred has ever even registered with the NSA Neighborhood Watch program.”
TalkinDog & anon nurse,
Neighborhood watch groups need to watch out
http://www.wtop.com/?nid=740&sid=2799602
WASHINGTON – The Feb. 26 shooting of unarmed teenager Trayvon Martin has put neighborhood watches into the national spotlight.
A former police chief calls the Martin case “horrendous” and says it underscores the need for neighborhood watch programs to vet volunteers thoroughly and to review the organization’s policies and training.
Chris Tutko, director of neighborhood watch programs with the National Sheriff’s Association, says neighborhood watch groups need to ask themselves, “What kind of training have you had as far as suspicious activity? Did you have any training in diversity?”
Neighborhood watch groups need to keep in mind that their mission is to act as the eyes and ears of the community, he says. They are not a substitute police force, and volunteers need to understand that when they see something suspicious.
” You call the law enforcement, and let them do their job,” Tutko says. “There’s no intervention, and there’s certainly no carrying of weapons.”
Tutko, who served as police chief in Manassas, says volunteers may have a concealed weapons permit, but organizers should make certain it’s understood that weapons are not a part of any neighborhood watch program.
“Somebody may have aggressive behavior and that has to be a red flag,” he says.
In that case, the message should be “Thank you for your efforts, but I don’t think you’re fit for this organization, and you’re not a member of neighborhood watch anymore.'”
Do:
•Conduct background checks
•Train volunteers in policies and procedures
•Have volunteers get some diversity training
•Establish protocols for determining what constitutes suspicious activity
•Make the call to the appropriate local law enforcement agency
Don’t:
•Intervene
•Carry a weapon