Defending Our Freedoms?

Submitted by: Mike Spindell, Guest Blogger

A recurring meme used in American society by leaders and politicians is that certain acts must be done to “Defend Our Freedoms”. The use of this meme has occurred repeatedly in our history as a justification for certain governmental actions, particularly in defense of war. In some cases like our Revolution, or World War II its usage has been right on point, in others like Viet Nam, Iraq and Afghanistan it’s been used as untruthful propaganda. On national and local levels the meme has also had a mixed history. It has been used to persecute radicals, as a States Rights justification of “Jim Crow” and post 9/11 to enact “security” legislation that many of us think actually diminishes freedom in the name of saving it.

“A federal judge on Tuesday gutted the government’s case against seven members of a Michigan militia, dismissing the most serious charges in an extraordinary defeat for federal authorities who insisted they had captured homegrown rural extremists poised for war. U.S. District Judge Victoria Roberts said the members’ expressed hatred of law enforcement didn’t amount to a conspiracy to rebel against the government. The FBI had secretly planted an informant and an FBI agent inside the Hutaree militia starting in 2008 to collect hours of anti-government audio and video that became the cornerstone of the case.”

A four year investigation of this group by the FBI, that included planting two people in it as “members”, finally led to the indictment and the subsequent dismissal of most charges against this group. They had met and trained over the years in a common cause of hatred of the Federal Government and the desire to see it overthrown. They had at no time taken any definitive action towards implementing their beliefs, other than an exercise of their freedom to speak and believe in ideas far outside of mainstream thought. Behind the actions of the FBI was the premise that they were acting in defense of American freedom. Were they really, or were they overstepping the bounds of protected Constitutional conduct?

“The court is aware that protected speech and mere words can be sufficient to show a conspiracy. In this case, however, they do not rise to that level,” the judge said on the second anniversary of raids and arrests that broke up the group.”

 “[Judge] Roberts granted requests for acquittal on the most serious charges: conspiring to commit sedition, or rebellion, against the U.S. and conspiring to use weapons of mass destruction. Other weapons crimes tied to the alleged conspiracies also were dismissed. Prosecutors said Hutaree members were anti-government rebels who combined training and strategy sessions to prepare for a violent strike against federal law enforcement, triggered first by the slaying of a police officer.”

“But there never was an attack. Defense lawyers said highly offensive remarks about police and the government were wrongly turned into a high-profile criminal case that drew public praise from U.S. Attorney General Eric Holder, who in 2010 called Hutaree a “dangerous organization.”

“David Stone’s “statements and exercises do not evince a concrete agreement to forcibly resist the authority of the United States government,” Roberts said Tuesday.”His diatribes evince nothing more than his own hatred for – perhaps even desire to fight or kill – law enforcement; this is not the same as seditious conspiracy.””

“The FBI had put a local informant, Dan Murray, inside the militia in 2008 and paid him $31,000. An FBI agent from New Jersey also was embedded. Steve Haug, known as “Jersey Steve,” posed as a trucker and spent month’s secretly recording talks with Stone. He even served as Stone’s best man at his wedding, a celebration with militia members wearing military fatigues.”

“[FBI Agent] Haug repeatedly talked to Stone about building pipe bombs and getting other sophisticated explosives. The FBI rented a warehouse in Ann Arbor where the agent would invite him and others to store and discuss weapons.”

Those seven quotes above pretty much give you a picture of the Huffpost article and the issues involved in this case. At the end of this post I’ll supply more links for those who want to dig deeper into the case. This story though, based on the article supplies the essence of why I have been a lifelong supporter of the ACLU and also what drew me to Professor Turley and his blog.

In my opinion there are two key elements in this case that call into question the actions taken to “Defend Our Freedoms” in this instance by the Justice Department/FBI and in many others throughout American history. The first element is that of “Freedom of Speech”. The presumption of this “freedom” is that as Americans we can believe and discuss anything, providing we take no affirmative actions to inhibit the rights of others in their exercise of their own constitutional freedoms. This “Hutaree” Group believed in some wacky things, they were not hesitant to discuss their beliefs and use them to recruit others to their cause. The question devolves upon what is the role of government in monitoring organizations such as this, which could potentially at some future time pose a dangerous threat?

The second element that I see is the placement of an informant (Dan Murray) and an FBI Agent (Steve Haug) inside the organization. Were these men merely gathering information, or were they acting as “agents’ provocateurs” in moving this group more towards the type of affirmative actions that would turn this into an illegal conspiracy? It would seem that Agent Haug’s repeated discussions with Stone, the group’s leader, about building bombs and explosives, was leading the group on into criminal conspiracy.

That the FBI rented a warehouse where Haug could help push the group to action and weapons storage also seems a case of trying to bring about a desired result, where perhaps in the absence of provocation the group would have remained little more that a impotent debating society. Indeed the Judge’s dismissal seems to indicate that despite the provocations by the undercover operative this group was impotent and certainly not a threat.

I believe that Judge Robert’s decision was the correct one. While I understand the need for American Law Enforcement to protect us all from internal threats, I don’t believe that Law Enforcement or Security Agencies should be able to simply pick on those whose beliefs they consider abhorrent and actively work to push these groups into compromising positions. This has often been the case as COINTELPRO clearly illustrated. In that line also was J. Edgar Hoover’s bugging of Martin Luther King and the various anonymous threats the FBI sent to MLK in order to destroy the Civil Rights Movement, which Hoover, an ardent racist, hated.

However, I’m well aware that one can find certain instances where Law Enforcement intervention might have and actually did, avert tragedy. So the question I pose to the reader is what is acceptable government intervention in instances of “radical” groups, if any?–despite-massive-undercover-operation.html

Submitted by: Mike Spindell, Guest Blogger

49 thoughts on “Defending Our Freedoms?”

  1. Mike S.
    Thanks for taking the time from your vacation.

    Can’t and won’t try to deny any of that you write.

    The short bit of hack writing I read in the swedish serializtion made clear his capabilities in terms of writing. But again that sample was too small. The capabilities of the native english speaker translator may have made great improvements (NB foreign pseudonym).
    Can’t know without reading. The plot of the first novel makes one queasy reading it in the Wikipedia version. The Swedish film trailer was laughable and as bad acting as on the Swedish National Theatre (Dramaten) stage, and just as hammy. The American trailer was so professional that it was a completely different experience. Choice of Stockholm views, editing, sound, pure proffs. But again a small sample of course.

    Don’t feel such melodrama would prevent you from being perceptive, you say. Perhaps, you are an exceptional man. On an emotional plane I am much effected by both stage but most certainly by film
    I remembet leaving a production of Shaw’s Major Barbara at Dramaten, in a rage over the social injustice portrayed. My companion, a DA, was not effected at all, and found my heat to be odd.

    But to claim as you do to not be influenced by a movie experience and the arguement it presents, Well good for you.

    But that leaves me still wondering why you would base anything at all on this as a source. As the point I made with Aesop’s Fables, and Thousand and One Nights. Stieg, based on what his sambo has written recently, on and what is in Wikipedia can be questioned as a balanced source. He appeared to have spent many years fighting these dragons, which he was not alone in seeing.
    With the exception of right wing influence in politics, I would question the others today as being significant.

    He may be admired, but still may have been a Don Quixotic figure.
    I repeat, I can not judge. I will instead of these books, except for a cursory examination of the english version of the first novel, spend some time scanning his latest posthumous publication of his journalistic work.
    AN mentioned it in a post above I believe.

    Sweden as compared to other “leading” models. There are more competent judges who have analyzed that question.

    The southern perimeter nations have much more generous pensions at earlier retirement ages. Greece, the Balkans, Italy, France, Spain, etc.
    Their medical systems seem equally if not more competent. Those in a hurry or desparate go to Germany, but risk getting in the hands of charlatans.
    Italy has their fascists as does Spain, France, Germany. Italy and Greece have their communists, unions as do others in re union influence.
    Protection against company closure and release of workers due to that and other reasons is far far more guaranteed in Germany, Spain et al.

    These are complex matters, and examples given in novels are not to be trusted. Have you read The Red Room by Strindberg, a great social commenter, among other things. Novels and plays mostly.

    Thanks, enjoyed the stimulus to examine these questions, but nothing conclusive as to Stieg’s work yet. We agree on that, I believe.

    Frankly, what anyone thinks about Sweden is OK with me. Like to question people in a soft way here in spontaneous contacts in public.

    Today was waiting at the pharmacy and started up a conversation with a to appearances oriental woman. She quickly and kindly informed this curious American that she was adopted as a Korean baby. She says she told people when she was little, My pappa is from ssss and I am a ssss person too.
    I did not feel it was an occasion for deeper delvings in that issue, but my conviction is that all things foreign can never be Swedish to the Swedes.
    That seems to be the only consistent criticism I get from immigrants.

    But times change, the children for the most are color and religiously mixed in crechés-kintergardens and school. So this xenophobia, if we can call it that, may just may disappear with time.. We shall hope so.

  2. Mike S,
    If you are still reading.
    I check with some Swedes today, and they say variously but in agreement, on Stieg Larsson’s books.

    If you read Aesop’s Fables and use it to describe Greece then his works will do for describing Sweden. If you construct the history of the ME from Thousand and One Nights, then you are fine with Stieg’s books in hand.

    Or they point with contempt to considering the readerships need for action, always action, violence constantly, improbable intrigue, exotic places, and the usual set of characters, semi-miraculous rescues, and “they have casual sex” as a recurring theme, etc., etc. It’s one author’s version of Jame’s Bonds later films, and written for exploitation. He knew the sickness of the post-9/11 world would be ripe for another series.

    But reality, no. Based on real Swedish problems of the magnitude sketched, no. Based on other peoples ignorance about Sweden and the tales that circulate, yes, emphatically yes.

    Do Swedes have sex parties, yes, but so did certain ones on Long Island in 1964. So what. Do Swedish women like promiscuous sex, yes, but so do men, and so did women and men in the Los Angeles, Las Cruces, Tucson, St. Louis, Boise, Seattle, New Jersey, etc. also in my youth.

    Do we have a problem with fascism, No. Do we have a problem to correct as to women’s position. Yes, but the ones who mistreat women have either learned to hide better or have quieted down. They don’t leave surgically divided women’s bodies in plastic bags with their fingerprints on them these days.

    We had a pre-quel from another author who actually did time when he exposed certain security facts as a journalist. That was in the cold-war era.
    He wrote many successful spy novels, the hero being (hold your hat) a nobleman who supported leftwing organisations and got his Seal training courtesy of America. Although the pace and the density of events is slower/lower it allows for more character development, and was suitable to that days needs. The author is Jan Guillou, and his character was called Coq Rouge by Securité in the first novel.

    Family killings occur very seldom, thanks to the public reaction to the first one. What is worse is the sending home by parents to where they came from, now after attaining 18, to be wed without consent. Or even worse is the sending home of girls to be circumcised, but only one national group does that.

    The other themes: patrarchialism, women hate, and naziism are infantile positions in everyones eyes, except for a few skinheads with ties around their necks in parliament who are adherants to the last theme.

    1. ID707,
      Can’t respond in depth, but since you haven’t read Stieg you are not aware of what he wrote. As for people’s opinions,doesn’t that depend on who the people are? As for my being influenced by the book’s melodrama. I believe I’m a bit more perceptive than that. In any event my opinion of Sweden is still positive, even if the books tell the truth All it being true would mean is that Sweden is closer to the pack of the better nations, than I thought. As to Sweden’s free sexuality that is a positive to my mind.

  3. Stieg Larsson’s The girl with the dragon tattoo

    just read the plot summary in Wikipedia.
    have friends here, so will not say more.
    As the Swedish saying goes: “Tastes are like rumps are, divided.”

    Reconciling its success in the US market with the reported American choice in poets, Rumi, is difficult to achieve. But they are entirely different markets, although both appeal to those seeking distraction and flights to other worlds.

  4. AN,
    And that cited also may not be correct at all, but many support his life partner for 30 years in her claim, just for this issue of ability ot writing.

    I have no position other than reading a few paragraphs in Swedish, which is nothing. I knew nothing until a few minutes ago after reading on him and his sambo in Wikipedia. Each has an article, plus all the ones about the trilogy.
    The world and the US market have already vote with their wallets.

  5. The quotation in my earlier comment about “Expo Files” should have been in quotation marks. (Google Expo Files.) I was rushed…


    idealist707 1, April 3, 2012 at 11:34 am

    Here’s perhaps an insightful comment from a close collegue (sic) to him.

    Stieg couldn’t write for shit, but he was a genius as a researcher.
    He tried and tried, but it never worked. There always had to be a re-write by others.


    Sour grapes, maybe. We should all write so “poorly”…

  6. AN
    Noted. Where? Reads like a publisher puff. So assume not yours. Mispelled name.

    Here’s perhaps an insightful comment from a close collegue to him.

    Stieg couldn’t write for shit, but he was a genius as a researcher.
    He tried and tried, but it never worked. There always had to be a re-write by others.

    The intention being to say that his “sambo” was very likely to have written a large part., during that controversy.

    DN, leading newspaper, had one of the trilogies as a summer serial.
    I immediately found it boring, poorly written, predictable, even the prose was predictable. (the worst sort of pulp literature=kiosk roman,) etc.
    So much for judgement after hopping in and reading a few paragraphs somewhere in a novel. As we see, it has gone on to become a storming success (storm succé).

    That they have done a posthumous collection of his journalistic work was new to me. But then I stopped reading newspapers and watching TV news here last Autumn. Ie, what else is new in Sweden?

    If this was in response to my query, then kind of you to field it without questioning if I am really here in Stockholm. Right now am sitting here listening to the slight noise of traffic on Ringväger, and thinking about dinner.

  7. Expo Files [Hardcover]

    by Steig Larsson (Author)
    Publication Date: March 29, 2012

    With an introduction by Tariq Ali. Now almost exclusively known as the author of the bestselling Trilogy, as a professional journalist Stieg Larsson was an untiring crusader for democracy and equality. As a reporter and editor-in-chief on the journal Expo he researched the extreme right both in Sweden and at an international level. Collected here for the first time are essays and articles on right-wing extremism and racism, on violence against women and women’s rights, on homophobia and honour killings. Included also is an account written for Vagabond magazine of his travels aboard the Trans-Siberian Express from Moscow to Beijing. His most important writings – perceptive, learned and committed texts – illustrate the breadth of his journalistic and political activities in connection with matters that were closest to his heart, and to which he devoted his life. Despite death threats and financial difficulties, Larsson never ceased to fight for and write about his most firmly held principles; it was his commitment to these which gave his best-selling novels their explosive force.

  8. Speaking of modern authors, we have Stefan Einhorn, son to two Holocaust survivors, by the hair of their teeth. They became outstanding cancer researchers here. Stefan’s sister wrote of her mother’s journey.
    Stefan writes on humanity and compassion (3? books now), read his first which appears to be based on his family situation. One key element is the old father who rescued his son from the undertow at the ocean with an ancient jewish chant,
    It then emerges —–no won’t say more. Stefan himself is a well-reknown cancer researcher. Sister does doc films.

  9. Am abash to admit I’ve never read him either.

    I found instead Sjövall and Wahlöö, a swedish couple, who wrote a series of police novels with a decided left and anti-establishment clang to them.
    (My own views were neither one nor the other, no understanding of how to get along with others)

    Excellent intrigues, at times too intensive for words, and firmtly anchored in mirroring Sweden in all aspects of social life. Of course they were intended for a Swedish readership and meant to enlighten this stodgy folk as to their unperceived situation in terms of where the power lay, and the ineffectiveness lay,

    From the bum on the street, to the poliice patrol who eat their hotdogs, to the security police used as an object of ridicule reflecting on the security organiztion, where all enemies had long hair and were hippie-like.

    You’re always baitng, or is it socially normal—-I’m still learning, for example, to refer to Stieg , with he sees, his take, rather cool. Since never read him can’t read the implied since it’s not there for me. A good use of verbal shorthand; one does not repeat what is already known in common, then if it is missing on the one party’s part, then it won’t roll.
    Shall we speak of Strindberg’s take on Swedish bureaucracy or Swedish matrimony I would be on firmer ground. Not complaining, just showing my lack of ground to base an answer on. Other more modern favorites are P.C. Jersild, an MD who writes.

    Do give me your view on Stieg.

  10. Spent a couple of hours reading through all of MCM’s tour de force.

    “Brief answer: patriarchal, misogynist, and strains of Nazism.”

    Hard to guess what context you find these signs. None rings a bell for me.
    My Kerstin had to fight to get to the top as a director of a major pensions insurance company for in principle all blue collar workers in Sweden. The company is jointly controlled by the Swedish Assocation of Industries and the central labor organization for blue collar workers She was blocked as much by her social background as by being a woman, I believe. You know how people recognize others of the same class. I guess that exists in the USA too. Her father was brilliant, could play exhibition chess with 25 opponents at the same time, but he was a farmer.
    Women have been in control of themselves, their bodies, etc and their incresingly prominent place on the job market for many decades. They once had to go to communist Poland to get abortions. But in the same period antique alcohol restriction forbade the playing of live music in a bar. More please.

    Men are not the head of a family, although women still pull the double load of mothering both children and spouses. However, men are in great numbers pushing baby carrriages and taking the 3 months work leave with pay as is reserved for men only. A patriarchal tone in politics is rare.
    Women are found in all positions. We had 2 women foreign ministers decades before America. Women doctors are as prevalent as men.
    We’ve had women major party leaders too. They are still poorly represented in parliament, but much better that I believe there. On board of directors also poorly rep. Sex never came into the discussion in most positions, as far as the news or otherwise.
    But is it a man’s world, oh yes. Clarify please.

    Naziism. Naziism has been said some 25 years ago to infect some parts of the police establishment, and came up as a lead in investigation of the Prime Minister Palme murder. Naziism as a view is perhaps a position of the Sweden first skinheads, they love Nazi salutes, and the newest addition to parliament is a party who rejects further immigration as unsound. The Security Police were not as eager to investigate right wing extremist groups as they are left wingers, but if that is Naziism???
    What could you have encountered?

    Lots of words and little light. Do give me more to chew on.

    1. ID707,
      My knowledge of Swedish mores comes from Stieg Larrson. He sees things in a different light. To be honest with you I was shocked to read his take on Sweden, which I had always thought of as a rather cool country

  11. Good post, I read an article recently that said almost all terror plots were reported by regular people and not found by big brother govt. While I definitely don’t agree with homeland security (see police state), most decent people when confronted or hearing about such plots would report it and hopefully the plotters would be foiled. The other part was putting the agents undercover, it seems to me renting the space and talking up the bomb themes borders on entrapment. This is a highly suspect practice in my mind, and should be a last resort, when ordinary police work fails. Obama has codified the Patriot Act and the NDAA, why not just write their own warrants or send the military in, it’s all legal now and may save time and money!(obvious sarcasm)

  12. The Supreme Court ruled Monday that jailers may subject people arrested for minor offenses to invasive strip searches, siding with security needs over privacy rights.

    Justice Anthony Kennedy wrote the majority opinion for the court.

    By Evan Vucci, AP

    Justice Anthony Kennedy wrote the majority opinion for the co

    By Evan Vucci, AP

    Justice Anthony Kennedy wrote the majority opinion for the court.

    By a 5-4 vote, the court ruled against a New Jersey man who complained that strip searches in two county jails violated his civil rights.

    Justice Anthony Kennedy said in his majority opinion for the court’s conservative justices that when people are going to be put into the general jail population, “courts must defer to the judgment of correctional officials unless the record contains substantial evidence showing their policies are an unnecessary or unjustified response to problems of jail security.”

    In a dissenting opinion joined by the court’s liberals, Justice Stephen Breyer said strip searches improperly “subject those arrested for minor offenses to serious invasions of their personal privacy.” Breyer said jailers ought to have a reasonable suspicion someone may be hiding something before conducting a strip search.

    Albert Florence was forced to undress and submit to strip searches following his arrest on a warrant for an unpaid fine, though the fine actually had been paid. Even if the warrant had been valid, failure to pay a fine is not a crime in New Jersey.

    But Kennedy focused on the fact that Florence was held with other inmates in the general population. In concurring opinions, Chief Justice John Roberts and Justice Samuel Alito said the decision left open the possibility of an exception to the rule and might not apply to someone held apart from other inmates.

    The first strip search of Florence took place in the Burlington County Jail in southern New Jersey. Six days later, Florence had not received a hearing and remained in custody. Transferred to another county jail in Newark, he was strip-searched again.

    The next day, a judge dismissed all charges. Florence’s lawsuit soon followed.

    He may still pursue other claims, including that he never should have been arrested.

    Florence’s problems arose in March 2005, as he was heading to dinner at his mother-in-law’s house with his pregnant wife and 4-year-old child. His wife, April, was driving when a state trooper stopped the family SUV on a New Jersey highway.

    Florence identified himself as the vehicle’s owner and the trooper, checking records, found an outstanding warrant for an unpaid fine. Florence, who is African-American, had been stopped several times before, and he carried a letter to the effect that the fine, for fleeing a traffic stop several years earlier, had been paid.

    His protest was in vain, however, and the trooper handcuffed him and hauled him off to jail. At the time, the State Police were operating under a court order, spawned by allegations of past racial discrimination, that provided federal monitors to assess state police stops of minority drivers. But the propriety of the stop is not at issue, and Florence is not alleging racial discrimination.

    Kennedy gave three reasons to justify routine searches — detecting lice and contagious infections, looking for tattoos and other evidence of gang membership and preventing smuggling of drugs and weapons.

    Kennedy also said people arrested for minor offenses can turn out to be “the most devious and dangerous criminals.” Oklahoma City bomber Timothy McVeigh initially was stopped by a state trooper who noticed McVeigh was driving without a license plate, Kennedy said.

    In his dissent, Breyer said inmates in the two New Jersey jails already have to submit to pat-down searches, pass through metal detectors, shower with delousing agents and have their clothing searched.

    Many jails, several states and associations of corrections officials say strip searches should only be done when there is reasonable suspicion, which could include arrest on drug charges or for violent crimes, Breyer said.

    In 1979, the Supreme Court upheld a blanket policy of conducting body cavity searches of prisoners who had had contact with visitors on the basis that the interaction with outsiders created the possibility that some prisoners got hold of something they shouldn’t have.

    For the next 30 or so years, appeals courts applying the high court ruling held uniformly that strip searches without suspicion violated the Constitution.

    But since 2008 — and in the first appellate rulings on the issue since the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks — appeals courts in Atlanta, Philadelphia and San Francisco decided that authorities’ need to maintain security justified a wide-ranging search policy, no matter the reason for someone’s detention.

    The high court upheld the ruling from the Philadelphia court, the 3rd U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals.

  13. Haven’t read it. Text was offered a summer serial in the morning paper some 3 years ago. Didn’t dig his prose. Can assume the professional translation was better—–al OT, explaining why I have missed it all.

    Can you be more specific? I am fairly well adapted now, but the first 5 years was tough. No dynamics. To get permission to do anything seemed stifled then if not impossible. Its become more americanized since.

    Your opinion and particular point intrigues me. Won’t paradise it at all, promise..

    1. ID707,
      On a phone so comments limited. Brief answer: patriarchal, misogynist, and strains of Nazism.

  14. “The Swedish system propagandizes cooperation from toddlers upwards
    But we have our Republican corporatists and militarists.”


    I had always thought better of Sweden until I read “The Girl With the Dragon Tattoo” and saw that my presumption of paradise was only another myth to be destroyed.

  15. Someone You Love: Coming to a Gulag Near You

    by Chris Hedges
    Apr 2, 2012


    “There are now 1,271 government agencies and 1,931 private companies that work on programs related to counterterrorism, homeland security and intelligence in about 10,000 locations across the United States, The Washington Post reported in a 2010 series by Dana Priest and William M. Arken. There are 854,000 people with top-secret security clearances, the reporters wrote, and in Washington, D.C., and the surrounding area 33 building complexes for top-secret intelligence work are under construction or have been built since September 2011. Investigative reporter James Bamford wrote in the latest issue of Wired magazine that the National Security Agency is building the largest spy center in the country in Bluffdale, Utah, as part of a secret NSA surveillance program code-named “Stellar Wind.” Bamford noted that the NSA has established listening posts throughout the country to collect, store and examine billions of email messages and phone calls.

    If we lose this case it will hand to the vast network of operatives and agencies that investigate and demonize anyone who is not subservient to the corporate state the power to detain citizens and strip them of due process. It will permit the security and surveillance state to brand as terrorists any nonviolent protesters and movements, along with social and political critics, that in the government’s imagination have any trace of connection to al-Qaida or “associated forces.” If the National Defense Authorization Act is not reversed it will plunge us into despotism, leaving us without a voice, trapped in eddies of fear and terror, unsure of what small comment, what small action, could be misinterpreted to push us out of our jobs or send us to jail. This is the future before us. And we better fight back now while we can.”

    It’s so much worse than many realize.

  16. “This is the current human condition and humanity’s only hope is evolution from predator/prey to cooperative coexistence.”

    The greatest empire until the nation emerged after independence from Britain, decayed and fell. The prime reason, lack of competent imperial successors within the family, descendants of Chandragupta.

    Our system avoids that pitfall of lineages, but when the “lineage” of corporate rule is unbroken, how can a change be attained, even should we all awaken from our dreams And how can we be awakened?

    Mike S.

    Those feeding children don’t have time. Only the students/youths and the elder have that time. Ryan’s plans for Medicaid could help activate.
    Small changes or revolution in the streets.
    Gandhi and the Salters would have been shot by Nazis. So beware massive passive resistance. “They” have anticipated that, and are fully prepared with new methods. Including some unthinkable. But they have.


    A realization of cooperation. Not likely, although I still dream of it.
    The Swedish system propagandizes cooperation from toddlers upwards
    But we have our Republican corporatists and militarists.
    Militarists have taken a beating thank to USSR collapse and USA’s umbrella.

    Keep trying.

  17. For some reason, when I see the words “Hoover” and “suck” together, I don’t think of vacuum cleaners.

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