Respectfully submitted by Lawrence Rafferty (rafflaw)-Guest Blogger
We haven’t heard his name for quite some time now, but former Bush-era Office of Legal Counsel attorney, John Yoo is in the news again. The United States 9th Circuit Court of Appeals threw out an appeal by convicted terrorist, Jose Padilla attempting to hold Yoo liable for the torture used on Padilla while in U.S. detention centers.
Believe it or not, the Justices stated that the law on what constituted torture was not clear when Padilla endured the Bush Enhanced Interrogation methods. “A three-judge panel of the court said laws governing combatants and the definition of torture were unclear during the years policies were crafted. Padilla alleged he was subjected to death threats, given psychotropic drugs, shackled and manacled for hours at a time, denied contact with family or a lawyer for 21 months and refused medical care for potentially life-threatening conditions. “That such treatment was torture was not clearly established in 2001-03,” Judge Raymond C. Fisher, a Clinton appointee, wrote for the court.” LA Times
Is it just me or does it confuse and upset anyone else that Prof. Yoo, as an OLC attorney can decide for the country what actions constitute torture and when sued for those torture techniques, the Court claims that because of those very same rules declared by Emperor Yoo, the methods employed against Padilla were not established as torture? It sounds like Prof. Yoo made up the rules of the game and is now hiding behind those very same rules.
“The 9th Circuit’s ruling said the U.S. Supreme Court did not declare until 2004 that citizens held as enemy combatants have constitutional rights. Even now, the 9th Circuit said, “it remains murky whether an enemy combatant detainee may be subjected to conditions of confinement and methods of interrogation that would be unconstitutional if applied in the ordinary prison and criminal settings.” LA Times
Did the Court forget that Mr. Padilla was a United States citizen when he was detained and tortured by government officials? Wasn’t it patently unconstitutional to hold a citizen for 21 months without contact with an attorney or family members or a charge? Here is how the court answered that question.
“The court said that someone designated as an enemy combatant by the president – regardless of whether he is a US citizen or not – is not automatically entitled to full constitutional protections. “Padilla was not a convicted prisoner or criminal defendant; he was a suspected terrorist designated an enemy combatant and confined to military detention by order of the president,” the court said. “He was detained as such because, in the opinion of the president … Padilla presented a grave danger to national security and possessed valuable intelligence information.” “We express no opinion as to whether those allegations were true, or whether, even if true, they justified the extreme conditions of confinement to which Padilla says he was subjected,” Fisher wrote. “In light of Padilla’s status as a designated enemy combatant, however, we cannot agree with the plaintiffs that he was just another detainee” entitled to full constitutional protection.” Christian Science Monitor
I realize that these issues are not new. Allowing for one person, even any President, the ability to rescind normal constitutional guarantees for United States citizens seems not only dangerous, but unconstitutional. How can I, as a citizen, lose my constitutional protections just when I need them the most? I contend that the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals missed an opportunity to right a wrong that could impact every citizen. Prof. Yoo created the rules that these justices used to exempt Yoo from liability for his scurrilous definitions of torture.
Shouldn’t that have rang a warning bell in the minds of these justices? What do you think? Did the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals make an error? Let us know what you think!
The full 9th Circuit Court of Appeals decision can be found here.
Anon Nurse and Rafflaw,
Playing catchup, may I point to a post where I claimed that soon that newborns in addition to footprints will as part of the routine “shots” will be “chipped” and RFID’d with nano particles. Wherever you are the “network” will know where you are, who you are, and likely who passed the “reading device” together with you.
My nurse friends asked: “Aren’t they already doing it.” “Well”, I said, “they maybe are. The last big pandemic gave them a chance to test the returns on getting unregistered older persons into the system.” They nicked.
Don’t know if I dare look at the IBM ad, I don’t like having my nightmares confirmed.
Anon nurse,
Neither to flatter you nor insult you, I had thought to describe you to Metro Cowboy as the “one with the biggest balls here at JTs.
But now you intrigue me. Normally would have replied
with a long string of my own other categories. But will depart from my childishness. If you have such that you really will enlighten me with—-then I’m all ears.
You are special, and that’s only the second person here that I’ve said that too. Meant positively. If you’re just laughing at me, that will have to be accepted also.
rafflaw,
“Enjoy”, even in quotes, wasn’t the best choice of words… Creepy, Orwellian, unsettling…
I know this: I don’t want to leave this mess for our children. And as I’ve said too many times, we’re in a world of trouble that many aren’t even aware of, yet…
anon nurse,
Great commercial and a little scary.
anon nurse,
scary stuff on IBM. Maybe Yoo should look for work there if the law professor gig doesn’t work out!
rafflaw,
Maybe some will “enjoy” this IBM ad:
Can we call them “Extra constitutional citizens” please. They deserve the same consideration as persons of interest. They can be held forever without trial and they may never have been an enemy or a combatant.
Reposting:
http://www.nisc-llc.com/news/20081007.php
Jose Rodriguez, former Director of the CIA National Clandestine Service, joins National Interest Security Company (an IBM Company)
Fairfax, VA, (October 7, 2008) – National Interest Security Company, LLC, (“NISC”) announced today that Jose Rodriguez, former Director of the CIA National Clandestine Service, has joined NISC as a Senior Vice President. Mr. Rodriguez will immediately bolster NISC’s capabilities in helping the company’s intelligence community, Department of Defense, and Department of Homeland Security clients.
Mr. Rodriguez led a range of increasingly critical operations over his 30 year CIA career. After serving in a variety of field commands, Mr. Rodriguez was selected to lead the CIA’s Counter-Narcotics Center, bringing together intelligence analysts and operations officers to improve performance in pursuit of complex narco-trafficking networks. In the aftermath of 9/11, Mr. Rodriguez led the CIA Counterterrorism Center’s worldwide collection program against international terrorist organizations and subsequently was selected as Director of the National Clandestine Service (“NCS”). Mr. Rodriguez is a seasoned executive, deeply knowledgeable of the intelligence community and its operations, and he is well known for his leadership in managing and evolving the NCS in a new era of missions and capabilities.
Mr. Rodriguez joins NISC’s Mission Services vertical as a Senior Vice President in Edge Consulting. He will shape and lead engagements that improve the current value of intelligence and create new intelligence capabilities that integrate technology into new concepts of operations. Edge Consulting is a technology and strategy consulting company within NISC Mission Services which provides analytically-based portfolio strategies and capability prototyping to the Office of the Secretary of Defense, Joint Chiefs of Staff, the Office of the Director of National Intelligence, and several government agencies.
“We are thrilled to have Jose Rodriguez join our team and I am confident that his expertise will add great value as NISC continues to help our U.S. intelligence customers solve their most difficult challenges,” said Andrew Maner, CEO of NISC.
Chris Whitlock, President of NISC Mission Services added, “Jose is a well-known and highly respected professional within the intelligence community and national security community. The breadth and depth of Jose’s experience in the clandestine service is unsurpassed and we are honored to have him on our team.”
About National Interest Security Company, LLC:
Headquartered in Fairfax, Virginia, NISC is a leading provider of innovative information technology, information management, and management technology consulting services and solutions in support of national interest and security initiatives for the intelligence community; the Departments of Defense, Homeland Security, and Energy; and the Federal Health Information Technology community. NISC’s expertise includes systems engineering, biometrics, document and media exploitation, systems integration, software development, enterprise architecture, cyber security, information assurance, intelligence operations, analysis support, network and critical infrastructure protection. NISC has nearly 1,000 employees, with the majority holding high-level security clearances.
“Some are brave, some are foolhardy, dome are wise, some are scared quite simply.” -idealist707
I can think of a few other possibilities. 😉
Twice, the source in Jeff Stein’s article that follows, refers to Rodriguez as “a nice man” which makes me wonder…, but it’s interesting nonetheless.
“Here’s a take on Rodriguez from someone who watched him close-up from inside the CIA. It’s not flattering.
Rodriguez could not be reached for comment Sunday night.”
http://spytalkblog.blogspot.com/2012/04/jose-rodriguezs-defense-of-cia-torture.html (Jeff Stein of the old “SpyTalk” in the Washington Post
“And that’s who drove the CIA into a ditch.” -Jeff Stein
(JEFF STEIN’s SpyTalk began as a weekly column at CQ in 2005, and went daily in 2008, moving to The Washington Post in 2010. He is an investigative reporter of long standing, specializing in U.S. intelligence, defense and foreign policy. An Army Intelligence case officer in Vietnam… and the bio continues.)
MetroCowboy
…with this groups record and opinions on the said subject the silence was very surprising.”
Yeah, isn’t it. Does silence in the jungle mean the tiger is near. It would seem so. I mentioned it earlier. Some are brave, some are foolhardy, dome are wise, some are scared quite simply.
PS The blog system is screwing me up. Literally, My icon jumps into the middle of the space where I type.
Maybe it’s my delusions. I think I’ll turn off the PC and start again. If you’re having similary trouble, let me know.
MetroCowboy,
I was surprised (well, not really) that Stahl didn’t explore (or at least mention) what Rodriguez has been doing since his “retirement”, besides writing a book, nor did she reveal much about his history with the CIA (again, not a surprise).
http://www.historycommons.org/entity.jsp?entity=jose_rodriguez__jr__1
http://www.historycommons.org/context.jsp?item=a0502rodriguezcounterterrorism#a0502rodriguezcounterterrorism
anon nurse,
scary stuff on IBM. Maybe Yoo should look for work there if the law professor gig doesn’t work out!
MetroCowboy,
I posted it to Mike Spindell’s article “A Corporate Tale” a day or so after the interview. “A Corporate Tale” is about IBM, so that seemed like the most obvious spot to post it:
http://jonathanturley.org/2012/03/03/a-corporate-tale/ (by Mike Spindell)
“This week Huffpost ran an article titled:“IBM’s Role in the Holocaust — What the New Documents Reveal”, written by Edwin Black. The article was a followup to Mr. Black’s book “IBM and the Holocaust” published in 2001. As Mr. Black puts it justifying this particular article:
“Newly-released documents expose more explicitly the details of IBM‘s pivotal role in the Holocaust — all six phases: identification, expulsion from society, confiscation, ghettoization, deportation, and even extermination. Moreover, the documents portray with crystal clarity the personal involvement and micro-management of IBM president Thomas J. Watson in the company’s co-planning and co-organizing of Hitler’s campaign to destroy the Jews.”
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/edwin-black/ibm-holocaust_b_1301691.html?ncid=edlinkusaolp00000009
Anon,
Thank you for bringing up the Sixty Minutes piece, I was/am shocked that it took so long for that interview to be brought up on this site, I admit I didn’t bring it up, I wanted to, but since I get myself so worked up I decided I would wait and see what the big boys/girls on this site had to say about it…
I understand it’s uncomfortable to go off topic and finally there was a place to bring it out but with this groups record and opinions on the said subject the silence was very surprising.
Metro Cowboy,
I don’t watch 60 Minutes anymore. Too much of their corporatist ownership was showing and has been for some time now, but that’s just me. Please and I mean this sincerely, don’t feel you have to follow anyones lead here. This is an open forum and I’d hate to feel that people are afraid to express themselves. Our openness is where we differ from many other blogs. Visitors are welcome and the term “newbie” is one I’ve always hated.
Dredd and all persons who are conerned about our future, and that is all of you.
I asked about the consequences, but got no answer, of posing a hypothetical proposal of an illegal action. I would assume that freedom of speech and freedom of assembly would prevail; as the latter implies a freedom to discuss the possible messages and forms of protest and redress of the injuriies endured.
As we are in fact, but god knows if we are that in the eyes of the courts, on that issue there is much discussion—–but assuming we are “assembled” and discussion may commence, let me propose a hypothetical action for consideration as to its effectiveness, consequences, and whether it is subsumed by the FFs’ reasoning, writings and the Constitution/DoI etc.
This was a long preface, and only the bemused are still with me, or the obsessively curious.
Reward time: Open the mouth of your mind.
Is not, when facing the monument of iniquity, inequity, and sheer panopoplian variety of ills created by those riding our backs with glee, shouts, and with whips raised on high,………..AGAIN, IS NOT THE ONLY TRUE AND PROPER SOLUTION THE DEMOLISHING OF THE MONUMENT IN TERMS OF ITS CONTROlL, while retaining the vigor of the beneficial parts and taking over the reins of control????
Now this should be a subject which would require some discussion, I should think. That none other than Thomas Jefferson has recommended a new revolution every twenty years should give some weight to the consideration of the hypothetical solution He is also noted for uttering many quotable and notable words carrying the same sentiment.
Since the legal courses nominally at our disposal, have shown themselves corrupt and sold for money, the reinstatement of a democracy in more than name, is worth discussing in our assembly….!!!
What say yee?
PS Normal speech is permitted when answering. Mine is as it flows.
Guess I got smitted by the trailer of JTs battle film, with Henry V as model.
The “old school” of law & fed regs was simply “the law is read in the broadest possible terms”. Todays jurists read it as “vague”. Yoo and his ilk say,”if it’s not specifically spelled out then its NOT included!”. The jurists agree. It can’t be torture if it’s not specified EXACTLY what torture includes. I bring this up from my standpoint of dealing w/ environmental regs [ objective,technically based regs w/ very specific language] rather than subjectivly based laws. The YOOs have hynotized the courts into viewing subjective laws as wholly objective, reading each law in as narrow a way possible so as to escape the idea and intent of that law. Just my 2 cents from a laymans POV.
Idealist707,
Your various questions and points are well taken.
The bottom line is that Yoo et al. intentionally disregarded U.S. law and treaties with others (treaties have force of law).
They used pseudo-legal-reasoning to go beyond the Rubicon, to kick over the traces, and to practice what we have not practiced before.
Their deceitful machinations were not convincing, valid, or bona fide in any mature sense of the word.
So, a detailed comment on their mindlessness is not worth it.
The seeds they sowed are still doing damage and must be stopped.
Thanks leejcaroll. Madow is one of my favorites.
ashame they didnt ‘find’ zelikow memo until 2006 http://video.msnbc.msn.com/the-rachel-maddow-show/46959508#46959508
http://www.nisc-llc.com/news/20081007.php
Rodriguez is now part of an IBM company — NISC — National Interest Security Company, along with Michael Hayden (former NSA director, former CIA director), as well as other CIA retirees, among others.
From his interview with Lesley Stahl on 60 Minutes:
STAHL: So sleep deprivation, dietary manipulation, I mean, this is Orwellian stuff. The United States doesn’t do that.
RODRIGUEZ: Well, we do.
It resonated with me that he said, “We do.” He didn’t say, “We did.” He said, “We do.”
Present tense.