The evidence continues to roll in on the Zimmerman case. While the new evidence is not entirely bad for the prosecution, it does contain some evidence that will likely bolster the defense of George Zimmerman in the second degree murder trial over the killing of Trayvon Martin. Regardless of the ultimate impact, the evidence again shows (in my opinion) that prosecutor Angela Corey over-charged the case in Florida.
Some of the new evidence shows that Martin had traces of THC (the active ingredient of marijuana) in his blood stream and urine. Martin was suspended from school due to a marijuana offense (though it involved an empty marijuana baggie). Another benefit to the defense is that Martin father is shown denying that the voice calling out for help was his son — though he later changed that view when he says he was given a better recording. Other witnesses have indicated that it Zimmerman who was calling for help.
Generally, the existence of drugs in the system of a victim or defendant is admissible. The suspension would appear inadmissible under standard evidentiary rules.
There is also evidence that some neighbors described Zimmerman as a bully and a racist. That would help bolster the reported hate crimes prosecution being considered by the Obama Administration, though I still have reservations based on the evidence as it currently stands. Also the police viewed the shooting as “avoidable” — if Zimmerman had left the matter to the police.
I am not sure how much of the neighbor’s view of Zimmerman as a bully or racist could come into evidence. Such accounts, however, can have the benefit of further discouraging Zimmerman from taking the stand as a witness — always a benefit to the prosecution because (while they are told that a defendant has a right not to testify (jurors expect to hear from defendants).
On the whole, however, I would view the evidence as more positive to the defense. First, I have previously said that I was most interested in the distance of the shot and forensics. It now appears that Martin was shot from an intermediate range (no more than 18 inches and as little as an inch away). That would support the claim of Zimmerman that they were in a wrestling fight when the gun was fired. The greater the distance the stronger the case for the prosecution. The defense will likely present expert testimony to try to reduce the range further on the stand. Also, the report does have people at the scene saying that Zimmerman’s nose appeared broken — supporting the later medical report of the family doctor (though such injuries could occur from Martin defending himself).
Moreover, at least two witnesses appear to support Zimmerman in describing the man in the hoodie at straddling the other man and throwing punches. The report state that the man in the “‘hoodie’ [was] on top of a white or Hispanic male and throwing punches ‘MMA (mixed martial arts) style.’ He then heard a pop. He stated that after hearing the pop, he observed the person he had previously observed on top of the other person (the male wearing the hoodie) laid out on the grass.” One report also says that Zimmerman can be heard yelling for help 14 times on a 911 call recorded during the fight.
While the reports blame Zimmerman for getting out of his vehicle (he says that he was trying to get a house number for the police), that is not itself a crime. Of course, none of this means that Zimmerman was not the aggressor. Given the presumption of innocence and the need to prove the elements beyond a reasonable doubt, this evidence presents an added problem for the prosecution in my view. I have expressed skepticism over the way the case has developed and how it has been charged from the outset. As a criminal defense attorney, I would view this as a strong defense case even on the manslaughter charge, particularly given the poor police work at the scene.
What do you think?
Here is the police report.
Source: ABC and NY Daily News
Elaine,
Thank you, looking now.
Elaine,
Dingus Magliaro, aka, Marion the Librarian … bookworm by day, outlaw by night … you could join the Avengers
anon,
The autopsy report includes both the path and the direction of the projectile.
he
runran”,Then Martin runs away. The dispatcher tells Zimmerman to let him know what Martin is doing.
Carol, if you write a summary, you should stay with the chronology. I am absolutely sure that
Just let me know if this guy does anything else, ok? 07:11:06
doesn’t follow but precede “shit, he is running” 07:11:42, ” he run”, “towards the back entrance”, “are you following him”, “we don’t need you to do that”.
Video … Transcript
Go back and revise your narrative. I even checked the times for you. I know it almost by heart now.
Since Malisha doesn’t seem to be in this thread, let me ask:
Is there any significance that the released autopsy information doesn’t seem to describe the bullet angle?
How often is autopsy information like that publically released before the trial?
How often is just partial informatin like we’ve seen here released?
What are the experiences of you lawyers on this? Or even Gene?
Someone gets killed. There are no direct contemporaneous witnesses to either the shooting or the events leading to the shooting. The only person who can testify to the event itself is the admitted shooter.
You really don’t see the PC for an arrest incident to a necessary investigation to uncover the facts of the matter? The need to preserve and examine evidence so that we simply aren’t letting an admitted killer get away with murder on his say so alone and without further objective confirmation of the events?
I find that hard to believe.
It’s unreasonable to think that someone running can immediately stop in their tracks when told to. Yes, he continued on a ways. I don’t know how far and neither do you (there are variables involved). You can only speculate. Zimmerman did stop, as can be ascertained from the call. Those who speculate that Zimmerman continued to to follow Martin after the call was finished, do not know. Again, they can only speculate. Zimmerman was making plans to meet the police. You may not want to accept that, but you’ll have to prove otherwise and you haven’t.
Have a nice weekend 🙂
Blouise,
I’ve been called a lot worse than “dingus” on this blog.
🙂
With 30-years in law enforcement, it baffles me that the discovery was released BY the prosecution in the manner that it has been done. Involved in many homicide cases, this is without a count harmful to the prosecution’s case for a M2 conviction. I still don’t see the probable cause for this arrest – there are certainly political improprieties that will surface following the case.
Elaine,
“dingus”? (That was the nickname Jesse James liked to use. 😉 )
Evidence released in Trayvon Martin homicide
By FRANCES ROBLES, MARC CAPUTO AND AUDRA D.S. BURCH
McClatchy Newspapers
http://www.kansascity.com/2012/05/17/3616248/evidence-released-in-trayvon-martin.html
Excerpt:
Medical records previously leaked to news organizations that showed Zimmerman went to the doctor the day after the shooting with a broken nose were not included in the files made public Thursday.
Also kept from the media were cellphone records for Zimmerman, Martin and a girl Martin was chatting with in the moments before his death. In a court filing earlier this week, prosecutors said they also plan to present Zimmerman’s cellphone text messages, photos and videos from the weeks after Martin’s controversial death.
Zimmerman’s three statements to police and the videotaped re-enactment he did for detectives the day after he killed Martin were also exempt from being made public, because Florida law says confessions are not public record.
“The most important piece of evidence is the detective saying that, if George Zimmerman would have just stayed in his car, none of this would have happened,” said Martin’s family attorney, Benjamin Crump. “If Zimmerman had just stood down, then he wouldn’t have to plead protection under the Stand Your Ground law. But Zimmerman pursued him. He profiled Trayvon. He started this.
“And now look what happened.”
Sling,
Statement made by George Zimmerman–taken from an article in USA Today dated 4/20/12:
“I am sorry for the loss of your son,” he said. “I did not know how old he was. I thought he was a little bit younger than I am. And I did not know if he was armed or not.”
http://content.usatoday.com/communities/ondeadline/post/2012/04/george-zimmerman-bail-hearing-today-at-9-am-et/1
*****
But on one of the police tapes, Zimmerman told a dispatcher that Martin looked to be in his “late teens.”
Carol: “Elaine, Zimmerman did listen to the dispatcher. He answered all his questions and stopped following Martin when told he didn’t need to do that. You have no proof he continued to follow Martin.”
If you listen to the tape, you can hear the pattern of sounds as Zimmerman moves. That pattern continues through “Are you following him?” , “Yeah” , “We don’t need you to do that”.
After Zimmerman says “OK”, the pattern of sounds continues unbroken for about 10 seconds. They only change when the dispatcher starts asking for his name etc.
If “OK” meant “OK I’ll stop following him”, the sounds would have changed immediately.
By the sound of his voice, Zimmerman is walking fast.
You check how much ground you can cover in 10 seconds when walking even at a normal pace.
You’ll probably cover at least 60 feet.
That order of distance is how far we can be pretty sure Zimmerman continued to follow after he said “OK”. That is not an insignificant distance. He continued to follow.
Even though it sounds like he stopped after about 60 feet to concentrate on the exchange of details with the dispatcher, we don’t know whether or not he continued after the call ended.
Given that it seems almost certain that he continued following for 60 feet or so – after apparently indicating acceptance that he should not follow – it seems more likely that he went on to chase the ‘punks who always get away’.
David Larry,
It’s not my fault that you have poor comprehension skills.
I just provided information to you regarding Zimmerman following Martin after the dispatcher told him they didn’t need him to do that. It appears you only believe what you choose to believe.
BTW, insulting people is not the best way to win an argument. It reveals something about the person making the insults–that he has not been able to make his case with evidence and logic.
When the dispatcher told Zimmerman we don’t need you to do that. Zimmerman answers “ok.” He doens’t disagree with the dispatcher and then you can hear Zimmerman’s breath change as he stopped. He stopped. You have no proof that Zimmerman continued to follow Martin.
The dispatcher never told Zimmerman to identify himself to the suspicious subject Zimmerman was watching. He just told him to let him know what he was doing. Zimmerman was in his truck.
If Martin had beat Zimmerman sufficiently to put him in a coma or killed him, we wouldn’t be having this discussion.
It’s stupid for people to say “If Zimmerman hadn’t gout out of his car”. Hell, if Zimmerman never went to the store that evening we couldn’t be here. If Martin didn’t go to the store we wouldn’t be here.
Zimmerman did not violate Martin’s rights by calling the police. He didn’t violate Martin’s rights by getting out of the car to see where he was going after losing sight of him.
the first indication of someone violating the rights of another was when Martin punched Zimmerman. Had Martin not punched Zimmerman, he likely would not have been shot.
“Once again you don’t understand the point I was trying to make and put words in my mouth.”
Then take the time to clarify yourself, dingus.
Do you have evidence that Zimmerman continued to follow Martin after being told by the police that they didn’t need him to do that?
I’ll answer for you. NO! YOU HAVE NO EVIDENCE THAT ZIMMERMAN CONTINUED TO FOLLOW MARTIN AFTER BEING TOLD THAT THEY DIDN’T NEED HIM TO DO THAT.
Zimmerman was under no legal mandate to follow the dispatcher’s advice.
I don’t understand why seemingly rational individuals would bother bringing that up. It’s such a dead, busted, useless point.
Sure you or I may have followed the dispatcher’s advice, but it was advice only, and not an order, and the dispatcher was well aware of it.
And yeah, the cops say that if Zimmerman had followed their advice none of this would’ve occurred. That is true. And trivial. And what would you expect the cops to say?
In the “Medical” thread, i linked to some flash cards that make “intermediate distance” seem like an operational distance.
It’s close enough that the grains impact a body as can be seen in stipling patterns, but far enough so that there is no soot on the body.
I don’t know how authoritative those flash cards are, but they did have nice pictures of the Sesame Street monsters on the back.