By Mark Esposito, Guest Blogger
I should have a right to destroy that which threatens me with destruction: for, by the fundamental law of nature, man being to be preserved as much as possible, when all cannot be preserved, the safety of the innocent is to be preferred: and one may destroy a man who makes war upon him, or has discovered an enmity to his being, for the same reason that he may kill a wolf or a lion; because such men are not under the ties of the commonlaw of reason, have no other rule, but that of force and violence, and so may be treated as beasts of prey, those dangerous and noxious creatures, that will be sure to destroy him whenever he falls into their power.
~John Locke, Second Treatise on Government, Ch. III, (kudos to Bron)

On the night of February 13th, 773 RAF Avro Lancaster bombers swept in low and fast on the Saxony railway town of Dresden. It was early 1945, The Third Reich was collapsing and some 600,000 people had taken refuge in the city to avoid the Allied onslaught. The presumed target was the military complex on the outskirts of town known as the Albertstadt. Dresden, itself, was riddled with military garrisons intermingled among the civilian population. In two waves, the RAF dropped 650,000 incendiaries and 8,000 lbs of high explosives and hundreds of 4,000 pounds bombs on the city center, all with little to no resistance. The entire city was ablaze. RAF crews reported smoke rising to a height of 15,000 ft. Fires were seen 500 miles away from the target.
The next day, February 14, 1945, as Dresden was trying to cope with the crisis, 450 U.S. B-17 Flying Fortress long-range bombers assigned to the 1st Bombardment Division of the United States VIII Bomber Command arrived at 1230 local time. Guided by the fires, they discharged 771 tons of bombs.
The results on the ground were horrific with an estimated 25,000 killed. Survivor Lothar Metzger recalled:
We saw terrible things: cremated adults shrunk to the size of small children, pieces of arms and legs, dead people, whole families burnt to death, burning people ran to and fro, burnt coaches filled with civilian refugees, dead rescuers and soldiers, many were calling and looking for their children and families, and fire everywhere, everywhere fire, and all the time the hot wind of the firestorm threw people back into the burning houses they were trying to escape from.
I cannot forget these terrible details. I can never forget them.
Some estimates bring the number of those killed to 100,000. Nazi propagandists took the figure to 200,000. RAF recon noted that ” 23 percent of the industrial buildings, and 56 percent of the non-industrial buildings, not counting residential buildings, had been seriously damaged. Around 78,000 dwellings had been completely destroyed; 27,700 were uninhabitable, and 64,500 damaged, but readily repairable.”
The raid, ordered by Churchill, rendered such a blow to Western psyche that he distanced himself from the raid saying, “It seems to me that the moment has come when the question of the so-called ‘area-bombing’ of German cities should be reviewed from the point of view of our own interests. If we come into control of an entirely ruined land, there will be a great shortage of accommodation for ourselves and our allies… We must see to it that our attacks do no more harm to ourselves in the long run than they do to the enemy’s war effort.” Of mention, is no sense of the human cost to the enemy of the raid. Th emphasis seems to be purely egocentric: What kind of country will we have when this is all over?
However British Air Chief Marshal Arthur Harris was not so circumspect:
“Attacks on cities like any other act of war are intolerable unless they are strategically justified. But they are strategically justified in so far as they tend to shorten the war and preserve the lives of Allied soldiers. To my mind we have absolutely no right to give them up unless it is certain that they will not have this effect. I do not personally regard the whole of the remaining cities of Germany as worth the bones of one British Grenadier. The feeling, such as there is, over Dresden, could be easily explained by any psychiatrist. It is connected with German bands and Dresden shepherdesses. Actually Dresden was a mass of munitions works, an intact government centre, and a key transportation point to the East. It is now none of these things.”
“War is hell” seems to claim the Air Marshall, and strategic concerns take precedence over humanitarian ones in a war zone. Is he right, or are both he and Churchill “war criminals” to quote some of the more animated commentary on the blog? Neither were prosecuted or charged with war crimes for the Dresden raid.
Which brings us to David Drumm’s fine posting yesterday about a claim of double-tapping Drone strikes in Pakistan and elsewhere in support of the war against the terrorists. The evidence published by the 18-month-old Bureau of Investigative Journalism (BIJ) claims that 6 instances of double-tapping have occurred with rescuers being targeted with second strikes. A review of 5 of those sources (ABC’s article was not easily retrievable) reveals that one arguably involved an attack on civilians, one was unclear on the status of the rescuers, and three reported second attacks on militants and extremists.
In response to my query on this point, David correctly pointed out that the Obama Administration does consider fighting age men in the strike zone “militants.” That fact was disclosed in a long New York Times article:
It is also because Mr. Obama embraced a disputed method for counting civilian casualties that did little to box him in. It in effect counts all military-age males in a strike zone as combatants, according to several administration officials, unless there is explicit intelligence posthumously proving them innocent.
Counterterrorism officials insist this approach is one of simple logic: people in an area of known terrorist activity, or found with a top Qaeda operative, are probably up to no good. “Al Qaeda is an insular, paranoid organization — innocent neighbors don’t hitchhike rides in the back of trucks headed for the border with guns and bombs,” said one official, who requested anonymity to speak about what is still a classified program.
But does six instances of secondary attacks obscured by the fog of war prove that the US has a policy of targeting innocent rescuers? Can it even be said that we are indifferent to the humanitarian concerns of rescuers even as we attack our enemies on their home turf?
From a legal perspective, targeting killing of persons who present an imminent threat to a country is permissible. Obama himself has insisted on such evidence before authorizing the strikes though there are trade-offs, according to the New York Times. The CIA’s man in the White House, John Brennan, a crusty Irishman who has spoken in defense of civil liberties and to close Guantanamo but who has faced withering criticism for his role in post 9/11 interrogations, explains Obama’s analysis:
The purpose of these actions is to mitigate threats to U.S. persons’ lives. It is the option of last recourse. So the president, and I think all of us here, don’t like the fact that people have to die. And so he wants to make sure that we go through a rigorous checklist: The infeasibility of capture, the certainty of the intelligence base, the imminence of the threat, all of these things.
Assassination of persons is generally regarded as murder although, by executive order, the US President may order the killing of foreign leaders who represent an imminent threat to the US.
Former U.S. District Judge (S.D. NY) Abraham Sofaer explains the difference:
When people call a targeted killing an “assassination,” they are attempting to preclude debate on the merits of the action. Assassination is widely defined as murder, and is for that reason prohibited in the United States…. U.S. officials may not kill people merely because their policies are seen as detrimental to our interests…. But killings in self-defense are no more “assassinations” in international affairs than they are murders when undertaken by our police forces against domestic killers. Targeted killings in self-defense have been authoritatively determined by the federal government to fall outside the assassination prohibition.
Likewise, Harold Hongju Koh, Legal Adviser US Department of State, defends the use of drones as ” part of “responsibility of US to its citizens, to use force, including lethal force, to defend itself, including by targeting persons such as high-level al-Qaeda leaders who are planning attacks.”
But what then about rescuers killed trying to aid militants?
Georgetown Law Professor Gary Solis, author The Law of Armed Conflict: International Humanitarian Law in War, and no friend of the US drone policy concedes that “Legal guilt does not always accompany innocent death.” In an example, published by Harper’s Magazine, Solis comments on a US helicopter attack on civilians rendering aid to combatants. “Can a van picking up wounded victims be fired upon? If the helicopter personnel reasonably associated the unmarked van with the presumed enemy personnel, yes. An “enemy” vehicle without red cross, red crescent, or white flag receives no special protection, even if wounded personnel are on board.”
Thus, even critics of the drone program conclude that trying to render humanitarian aid to injured militants affords no protection unless they are clearly visible as such. There is nothing in any of the articles cited by the BIJ indicating that rescuers were so denominated.
What then to make of the double-tap policy and the humanitarian toll. I see no proof that US drone masters are “targeting civilians.” Targeting implies intention and given the Administration’s definition of militants in a strike area it is unlikely that there is the intention to harm civilians rescuers where proof of such status exists. The Administration argues that its definition is based on its decade long experience with al-Qaeda. One certainly can argue with the definition of “militant” given its breadth, but does this definition make us any more culpable that acknowledged WWII heroes Winston Churchill or Air Chief Marshall Harris in arguing that our prime responsibility in war is to deny the enemy the ability to wage war against us even as civilians are maimed or killed?
What do you think?
Sources: linked throughout
~Mark Esposito, Guest Blogger
KF,
You should do standup with a routine like that.
You count Jefferson in you corner here because of Tripoli? That’s interesting, because that’s not at all the context in which I was mentioning him. Rather I was mentioning him because distorting the nature of the fundamental problem (criminal action) into something inappropriate (the responses of warfare) by using inappropriate language to start (the language of war; terms martial) to describe the parameters of terrorism and how to address it are a form of lie that led us into one manifestly unjust war (Iraq) and it about to lead us in to another (Pakistan) because that language encourages solutions that do no match the problem. In short, I was using Jefferson to address the nature of deception, not for his foreign policy stances regarding Tripoli. I was using Jefferson to illustrate the value of honest language in assessing whether something was bullshit or not.
Thanks for illustrating the power of shifting context though, mepso.
I’ll count you in my corner for that play.
You rascal you.
Freddie, I have found a video of one of your kindred spirits. You and this lady ought to get together.
Raff, in the bizarro world of Bill O’Reilly, it was American troops that were wholly responsible for what happened at Malmedy on December 17, 1944. In O’Reilly’s Fox News cocoon, all those beastly American soldiers were responsible. I think our Freddie is reading from the same manual.
All these years and I never realized that there were so many secret agents on this blog! 🙂
OS,
Who would care about 190 innocent men, and a couple hundred innocent women and a couple hundred innocent children mowed down by the Nazi’s?
Freddie:
I’m a MI6 plant. Can’t you tell by the accent. Cheerio!
Blouise:
““Whose morality? Ours or theirs?” (mespo to Blouise)
Anyone’s.”
********************
That implies an equivalency between our morality and theirs of jihad against the infidel — and his wife and his children — in defense of the faith. It’s been their morality since at least Jefferson’s time as I noted above. Shall we accede to theirs and place our necks on the block or fight for our own?
CIA plant? Oh Freddie, you shouldn’t have. I am flattered but sorry, no gold ring on that one.
OS:
“I still have not seen anyone respond to my question about Oradour-sur-Glane.”
*******************
You won’t since you raised it first but I’m sure there are plenty of folks around ready to equate Krakatoa with American drone strikes — and blame American Imperialism for the eruption, too..
Karl, wipe the drool off your chin. Hopefully, the medication cart will be making rounds soon.
mespo, when someone takes the low road in an argument, I don’t even try to respond in kind. I usually respond with what I see to be an appropriate reply; that is, ridicule.
I still have not seen anyone respond to my question about Oradour-sur-Glane.
O Scribe: Of course now that you’ve been outed as a Pentagon Plant on the Net with a full time job blogging on supposed erudtions on a myriad of subjects it’s of course protocol to try & dismiss your Outer as a so & so.
Deny, Obscure & Dismiss is in your manual.
Like Eisenhower said when faced with a battery of questions by reporters & Mormon sheep farmers complaining about their livestock dying out West after nuclear test blasts: “Just keep the public confused.”
Let’s face it. We know these plants like O Scribe exist, especially after 911. He’s just doing his job description stipulates.
It just takes somebody with an education to scrutinize your long trail of postings on various blogs to expose through deductive logic who you really are and who you’re working for.
When a left wing poster on this site linked another left wing site O’ Scribe inexorably showed show up their with some amorphous contribution that amounted to intellectual tiddlywinks.
If you’d like me to document this trail of incognito perfidy I’d welcome the challenge.
“Whose morality? Ours or theirs?” (mespo to Blouise)
Anyone’s.
“Shall we handicap ourselves with our morality in the fight even as they recognize no such constraints?” (mespo to Blouise)
That sounds like an answer to the jump-off-the-cliff-argument.
It is helpful to recognize when one’s government is moving from the moral condition of action to the power method of simply doing whatever it can get away with. Power creates the imbalance that fosters the immoral behavior. It is our sense of boundaries that is the center of our morality even, and perhaps especially, when confronting our enemies.
OS:
“Your name is drenched in sewage forevermore on this blog and guys like Spindell & Esposito, guest bloggers who have blessed you with compliments in the past, drift further & further to the right of the honorable professor Turley, who I suspect will soon be dropping some guest bloggers over this crucial Constitutional issue.”
************************
Mike S is not even in the fray but Karl won’t let him alone. Don’t you think Karl Friedrich has the loveliest prophetic prose around? Never disturb the heart-felt sentiments of either side. They get testy when their pets don’t purr.
Bob,Esq:
“Jefferson didn’t exhibit the behavior of a sociopath.”
***********************
Right again. That’s why he’d be in my corner. He actually believed in his country and its right to defend itself from the irrational hater. There’s a lesson there for you, Bob.
Hey, and since it’s you and you are our self-appointed Kant scholar, here’s a little Kant on War. Seems he agrees you have no duty to negotiate with an irrational combatant and may treat him as an enemy:
Kant, like Hobbes, believed the natural state of man was hostility toward one another. War, he surmised, pushed humans towards civilization in the zeal to avoid it. However nations had a duty to negotiate to avoid war through an international affiliation except in when dealing with an irrational actor. Hence as Kant says,“The state of peace must therefore be established for the suspension of hostilities does not provide the security of peace, and unless this security is pledged by one neighbor to another (which can happen only in a state of lawfulness), the latter, from whom such security has been requested, can treat the former as an enemy.”
And oh yes, President Gore’s two great SCOTUS nominations……oh wait…..never mind.
Karl Friedrich,
Bless your heart. Stay home you say? Maybe vote for a third party candidate? How did President Gore work out for you?
O Scribe, you hideous ghoul whose clearly a CIA plant on the bloggosphere after re-reading all of your posts on numerous blogs after all these years, fact is a guy with my principles wouldn’t have voted for a pathetic scallywag warmongering imperialist stooge like Al Gore even if threatened with torture or death — for politicians like Gore are the PROBLEM not the solution.
Mesposer: “I’d count him in my corner here.”
Jefferson didn’t exhibit the behavior of a sociopath.
Gene H:
““The man who fears no truth has nothing to fear from lies.” – Thomas Jefferson. ”
Jefferson also said,
“We took the liberty to make some enquiries concerning the ground of their pretensions to make war upon nations who had done them no injury, and observed that we considered all mankind as our friends who had done us no wrong, nor had given us any provocation. The Ambassador [of Tripoli] answered us that it was founded on the Laws of their Prophet, that it was written in their Koran, that all nations who should not have acknowledged their authority were sinners, that it was their right and duty to make war upon them wherever they could be found, and to make slaves of all they could take as Prisoners, and that every Musselman who should be slain in battle was sure to go to Paradise”
.
~Letter from the commissioners (John Adams, Thomas Jefferson) to John Jay, 28 March 1786,
I’d count him in my corner here.
I know, I was making fun of my own typos. 😀
CLH,
As an adjective, purport means to appear or claim to be or do something, especially falsely. As noun it is the meaning or substance of something, typically a document or speech.