As the Obama Administration objects to the Russian government selling attack helicopters to Syria in the midst of that civil war, another deal to buy the same Russian helicopters has surfaced: our own contract to buy Russian copters for the Afghan military from the same country. I share the disgust over Putin’s continued support for the Assad regime, but I am equally dismayed by Obama’s continuing to spend billions on the corrupt Karzai government to use in its own civil war.
Press secretary George Little insists that “We’re not buying helicopters for the Syrian regime. We’re buying helicopters in support of the Afghan Air Force.” That can be a precious distinction to some. However, I am more aggrieved by the fact that there is little debate over these contracts that continue to gush billions of dollars that are desperately needed at home to help with cash-strapped states and cities. In this one contract, we have agreed to buy 21 Mi-17 helicopters for Afghanistan from the Rosoboronexport company for $375 million by 2016, with an option to buy additional aircraft worth $550 million. The greatest irony is that not only will the money not go to American manufacturers but it will guarantee that future sales are likely to go to the Russians as these helicopters and existing helicopters require maintenance and spare parts.
I cannot express how frustrating it is to see our leaders continuing to spend such money in a war that the majority of Americans no longer support and in a country where anti-American sentiments are growing and whole areas are now back in the hands of the Taliban. We continue to spend huge amounts of money on this corrupt regime as we roll back on educational, scientific, and environmental programs. It is perfectly insane.
Source:
Michael Murry 1, June 13, 2012 at 5:20 pm
“The first man to raise a fist is the one who has run out of ideas.” — H. G. Wells.
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“The first man to raise an idea is the one who has run out of fists.” – The Dogs of War
“The first man to raise a fist is the one who has run out of ideas.” — H. G. Wells.
Put away the raised fist, President Obama, and try to come up with a useful idea for a change. You look rather ludicrous trying to wear Deputy Dubya’s customized bomber jacket.
No,it just proves that the brain, while useful, can not cope with what we call civilization. IMHO 😉
We have wandered into Catch-22 territory, fellow Crimestoppers. From Wikipedia:
“First Lieutenant Milo Minderbinder is the mess officer at the U.S. Army Air Corps base who becomes obsessed with expanding mess operations and trading goods for the profits of the syndicate (in which he and everyone else “has a share”). Milo is a satire of the modern businessman, and beyond that is the living representation of capitalism, as he has no allegiance to any country, person or principle unless it pays him.”
Not just insanity, Professor. We have become a satire of ourselves.
So rafflaw, you are good with the US killing civilians in the name of preventing violence against civilians? This is who we have become as a people? Are our minds so impoverished of solutions that we will accept only war and weapons as the way to confront every problem?
Why isn’t the US govt. going to regime change Bahrain? Why isn’t it regime changing itself? You fail to see that the US govt. is completely and utterly morally bankrupt. Exhortations to buy in house helicopters which will be used to kill civilians isn’t exactly confronting what is wrong in our own nation. The point is, our money goes to WAR contractors who don’t care what they do to whom. That’s not an opinion. There is solid research to back this assertion up. Jeremy Scahill is a good start on this topic but certainly not the only person to research. Why do you accept your money going to war contractors for their horrific purposes?
We need money to repair our infrastructure. We need it for the poor, for children to go to school, for health care, for things that make a society good and help everyone. We need money for reparations to all the other nations whom we have brought low. We could spend far less to achieve all these good things. Instead, you and others like you, are fully prepared to hand over your money and your voice to war as long as it’s a Democrat in “charge”. That’s sad. Democrats, the new (for now) face of empire.
Jill 1, June 13, 2012 at 11:39 am
Here’s where the rubber meats the road in a democracy. War contractors do not have a nation, they run them. They buy wherever they wish and they sell to whomever they wish. If you follow the money you will see it runs right though another group of corporations who also do not have any loyalty to a particular nation, the financial industry. The large banks, which we have recently bailed out once again, have been caught money laundering for war contractors, time and again. They sometimes pay a small fine and simply continue on as before.
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There is a story that backs you up:
(Huffington Post). This administration is like the last one and the one before that … and the next one too.
Swarthmore Mom,
I also question the comparison.
OS,
Thanks for the primer on the Russian helicopters. I still think if we are going to pay for helicopters we should insist on US helicopters. However, I am guessing the Afghans have some experience working on Russian helos.
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2012/06/12/syrian-children-used-as-human-shields_n_1588944.html As despicable as Karzai is, he does not use children as human shields So is the comparison accurate? Also the people in Kabul are totally sickened by the thought of the return of the Taliban and the ending of schooling for females.
Here’s where the rubber meats the road in a democracy. War contractors do not have a nation, they run them. They buy wherever they wish and they sell to whomever they wish. If you follow the money you will see it runs right though another group of corporations who also do not have any loyalty to a particular nation, the financial industry. The large banks, which we have recently bailed out once again, have been caught money laundering for war contractors, time and again. They sometimes pay a small fine and simply continue on as before.
Any time we hear of the need to regime change “evildoers”, especially those who were not too long ago our BFF, we should be trying every peaceful and legal means to prevent this govt. from using warfare, once again, as their means of choice for intervening in another nation. This is because this govt. does not care about civilian deaths, including the death and torture of children. This govt. engages in those activities without a care in the world. This govt. does not care about the repression of dissenters in other nations. It regularly sells weapons to use against dissenters in brutal regimes. If we’re friends with a brutal dictator, we greenlight everything they do and we help them do it–mission accomplished. This govt. also uses military weapons to suppress dissent in our own nation.
I would not just call it insane. I would call it evil. More importantly, our people need to quit accepting this behaviour on the part of this govt. This is our money, this is our nation and we need to stand up for what is legal and what is right.
Otteray Scribe,
Re: AN-2. Just a continuation from WW2, when their tank was simple, but produced in enormous numbers and worked always. And was maintained by tractor mechanics,
literally. You know the name, my memory is creaky.
The charging of the gun pods is a loser. Don’t know the safety system on when the rockets are armed, so will ignore that. Can only say it was that or the guys had camera fever and pressure from their non-coms. Would never work with the chief loader. He was in too much of a hurry.
On the whole, the system is defective as the pods should be detachable and would be loaded ahead of installing through a vehicle to lift and “click” it into place, fully loaded. This is just wasted op time for the delivery system (copter) and haste leads to f—-ups and dead people.
Henry Ford would not have approved it, but the Milspec folks do. Same oh here too. We can’t even decide which helicopter to buy here.
Lastly, I think we are going to trade Afghan off to the Russians. How’s that for a wild guess. So screwy it might be true.
Just a matter of Obama showing off his powers. Heh heh heh.
It now turns out that Clinton was popping off about bad information. The helicopters in question were sold to Syria many years ago, were sent to Russia for repairs before the current conflict began, and are now being returned. So Russia is not actually assisting Syria put down a rebellion.
We, meanwhile, are conducting airstrikes in Yemen to assist that government in suppressing a rebellion by its own people. That is vastly different that Russia helping Syria, because it is us doing it.
“It is perfectly insane.”
Indeed, that sums it up quite well.
‘Success is just around the corner’ :-))
Afghanistan is an empire killer. Throughout history it has taken down at least 5 great (i.e. big, strong, powerful, not necessarily good) empires.
The US is currently in the process of being one of them.
There is one thing about Russian aircraft that is not true of American military equipment. Most American milspec stuff is complex and requires a lot of highly trained technicians to maintain. Recently I had the opportunity to inspect an Antonov AN-2. I was impressed. It looked as if it could be maintained by a tractor mechanic using tractor parts.
The US is buying Russian copters for the Afghans because, for a variety of reasons, the Afghans want Russian copters. Not American copters. Very generous of us and yet more reason the Afghans will or do love us dearly, and wish to emulate us in every way. Success is just around the corner.
I have no idea why the US found it necessary to spend taxpayer money for Russian helicopters. Granted, this particular machine is an excellent helicopter, capable of both heavy lifting and use as a gunship. There are helicopters made in the US which have similar capabilities. I said I had no idea just above, but on reflection, I definitely have some suspicions. Just so our readers will know what we are talking about, here is a Mi-17 being operated jointly by USAF and Afghan air crews. Note part of the video shows the rocket pods being loaded–very, very carefully–by the ground crew. These guys are known affectionately as the “gun plumbers.”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MMVqJTQmnIU
Here is the Wikipedia entry for those who might be obsessed with details about the pedigree and variants of this machine.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mil_Mi-17
It surely is peculiar that we aren’t buying from U.S. makers (though Russia has always been particularly strong in helicopter design). But I’ve got to believe that if you follow the money, somebody here is making some big money; and it may well be some powerful member of Congress.
It’s a distinction without any real difference…… My question is, if we are going to buy them helicopters….. Why not US made….. At least we create jobs here….. But hey…. Who am I to complain…..
“… the ship has already sailed on negotiation and both sides are gearing up for a proxy war, with the West and the Saudis backing the [so-called Free Syrian Army] and Russia and Iran backing the [Assad] regime.” — Jason Ditz
Russia, Iran, and Iraq have real national interests in Syria. NATO and the United States don’t. Nations that have the most to fight for, usually fight hardest, longest, and best. Saudi Arabia really keeps asking for it.