The fallout from the controversial interview given by Chick-Fil-A president Dan Cathy over anti-gay comments continues to build. While most business leaders work hard to keep their political and religious views from affecting customers or their business, Cathy came out swinging with comments saying that he runs the company according to Biblical commands and that he views gay marriage as a sin. The result has been national boycott, store protests, and most recently moves in major cities like Chicago to bar the restaurant. The suggested legislation in Chicago would be in my view unconstitutional. Despite our disagreement with Cathy, civil libertarians should defend his right to do business without harassment or censure from the government for his views. His company is subject to anti-discrimination laws. Those laws protect his employees from “Biblical” harassment.
The gay rights group Equality Illinois is launching a campaign against Chick-Fil-A – petitioning universities and lawmakers to evict the fast food restaurant from their campuses. There is also a plan for a “kiss-in” campaign by gay and lesbian couples outside Chick-Fil-A restaurants. The latter protests are perfectly constitutional. Indeed, Cathy decided to force this issue in his interview and should have expected that his comments would enrage some consumer while delighting others.
It is the plan of Ald. Proco “Joe” Moreno (1st) that crosses the line.
I would also oppose as an academic an effort to bar the restaurant at universities. Universities are institutions committed to free speech and free thought. To start to bar groups or businesses on the basis of the religious views of their officers runs against the mission of a university.
Cathy was stating his personal view of gay marriage. He magnified the controversy by extending those views to the company: “We are very much supportive of the family — the biblical definition of the family unit. We are a family-owned business, a family-led business, and we are married to our first wives. We give God thanks for that.”
He seemed to double down on those comments despite the controversy and obvious cost of proselytizing to his business: “I think we are inviting God’s judgment on our nation when we shake our fist at Him and say ‘we know better than you as to what constitutes a marriage,’ and I pray God’s mercy on our generation that has such a prideful, arrogant attitude to think that we have the audacity to define what marriage is about.”
Moreno is moving to block permits for a new business in Chicago. Boston Mayor Thomas Menino has also vowed to block Chick-Fil-A from entering his city at all.
The suggestion that these cities would block a business because of the content of the religious views of one of its officers offends the principles of free speech and a host of constitutional protections. To the degree that the company violates discrimination laws, it can be punished and fined. In the meantime, the company is likely to loss millions in sales as well as protests from customers offended by Cathy’s comments. Just as Cathy elected to make his views public, customers have the same right. We can leave the outcome to the marketplace to work out.
Source: CBS
bettykath
considering what scott looks like that doesn’t surprise me.
Jim:
“Isaiah 19:18 This will happen in the millennium
Ezekiel 29:10-11 The 40 years did happen. It took place during the 70 year captivity Israel had in Babylon.
Matthew 24:34 This has not happened yet but will right before Christ’s return.
Isaiah 17:1 This happened by the Assyrians. (Proof-Isaiah 7:1-25, 8: 3-4,
II Kings 16: 5-18
Matthew 1:22-23 This surely happened with birth of Christ.”
********************************
Oh, Jim your childlike faith would be precious — if you were a child. Setting aside the things that you assure us will happen (we can hold our breath), let’s look at the ones that have:
1. According to you, Egypt was uninhabited by people and animals for 40 years while the Hebrews (there were no Israelis) were held captive in Babylon. That would be 598 BCE to about 538 BCE. During that time in Egypt, we know Nekau Ii began construction of the canal from the Red Sea to the Nile between 610 – 595 BCE. The Persians invaded in 525 BCE and were finally ejected in 404 BCE by the Macedonian king, Amytravios. King Dauius completed the canal from the Nile to the Red Sea between 510-497 BCE. The Hebrews were out of Persia by 520 BCE so at no time during their stay was Egypt uninhabited by man or beast since we have a fairly good historical record from the Egyptians and the Assyrians of the human activities in Egypt.
2. Destruction of Damascus by the Assyrians. Not one word about the destruction of Damascus or it losing its status. Just a king taking the city and clearing away some seaweed from an altar. The history is that in 732 BCE Tiglath-pileser III, an Assyrian, took Damascus and killed Rezin. He did not destroy the city but used it as a base to conquer more Syrian cities. Though Damascus was later eclipsed as the major city in the Mid East by Baghdad, it never ceased to be a city.
3. The savior born in Bethlehem was not named “Immanuel” as prophecied but rather as “Jesus.” The name only appears in Isaiah as prophecy and in Matthew as fact. Neither are true according to the Bible itself.
A bit off topic but speaking of bigotry, an interesting admission:
http://www.salon.com/2012/07/27/fla_republican_we_suppressed_black_votes/
excerpt:
In the debate over new laws meant to curb voter fraud in places like Florida, Democrats always charge that Republicans are trying to suppress the vote of liberal voting blocs like blacks and young people, while Republicans just laugh at such ludicrous and offensive accusations. That is, every Republican except for Florida’s former Republican Party chairman Jim Greer, who, scorned by his party and in deep legal trouble, blew the lid off what he claims was a systemic effort to suppress the black vote. In a 630-page deposition recorded over two days in late May, Greer, who is on trial for corruption charges, unloaded a litany of charges against the “whack-a-do, right-wing crazies” in his party, including the effort to suppress the black vote.
In the deposition, released to the press yesterday, Greer mentioned a December 2009 meeting with party officials. “I was upset because the political consultants and staff were talking about voter suppression and keeping blacks from voting,” he said, according to the Tampa Bay Times. He also said party officials discussed how “minority outreach programs were not fit for the Republican Party,” according to the AP.
————–
A tidbit from the article
Current Governor Scott has defended the purge, even though he was erroneously listed as dead himself on the rolls in 2006.
I remember the iceman with the leather over his shoulder to protect it from the block of ice. He came to the back door. I never saw the milkman. He came too early. The cream separated from the milk. When it was really cold the cap would be pushed up exposing a bit of the cream. We would frequently go a few blocks away to pick up bread from a woman who baked on Fridays. You could smell it all through the neighborhood. I didn’t know that about the newspapers. It’s an interesting tidbid to check out.
I remember the milkman and the breadman. If my mother was busy and I was outside I could always talk the milkman into a free quart of chocolate milk. The breadman had tiny sample loaves that he gave to the kids on his route.
By the way, many small community newspapers still in existence today were started by milkmen as a way to get customers from their competitors and expand their routes.
Jim,
To echo Gene’s statements, this is not a Christian country. It is not a Jewish country..it is not a Hindu country..it is not a Muslim country. It is a country that allows all of those religions to flourish and it also allows all non believers to believe as they like. What you want is the American version of the Taliban where religious law controls every aspect of the government. Guess what? You are out of luck.
Jim sez: “What does it matter if the Bible is not mentioned in the Constitution? The first item in the 1st amendment is Religion. That clearly shows its importance. At that time the Bible was really the only book used and the country was made up of mostly Christians.”
***********************************
Jim, you really need to spend more time studying real history. Many of the Founding Fathers were agnostics. They were very well educated and it was common to be schooled in the classics….written in the original Latin. The fact is, the First Amendment starts off with “religion” because the country was founded on the basis of freedom of religion. I know this is hard for you to wrap your mind around, but freedom of religion also means freedom from religion.
One of my 10x removed great grandfathers was a Huguenot who got out of France one jump ahead of the hangman’s noose or burning at the stake. He wanted nothing more than to be left alone to worship–or not–as he chose. The Huguenots were hated and persecuted by the Church and the Pope for questioning doctrine and refusing to blindly obey the dictates of the RCC hierarchy.
As for the Bible being the only book around to study, that is simply not true. I am sure there are persons today who would like it to be so, just as some Islamic purists would like the Koran (Q’uran) to be the only book people are allowed to read. Unfortunately, we have this nasty thing called education and the Internet where people can find out all kinds of things that conflict with their preconceived notions and what they hear in the church, temple or synagogue. Many, if not most, of the Founders were lawyers. At least one was a noted scientist, printer, author and diplomat. They were not ill educated country bumpkins who only read the bible.
Let me just leave you with this, repeated for reinforcement purposes: Freedom of religion also means freedom from religion.
Jim,
Again you abuse a document. The first words of the 1st Amendment are “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion”, not “Congress and the United States shall follow the dictates of the New Testament”. The Founders did think religion was important. They thought it was so important that it should not be dictated by government and that people should be “free [to] exercise thereof” according to their conscience, not your imaginary Biblical mandate of your particular (mis)interpretation of Christianity. You cannot use the mechanism of government to force your religious values on others, Jim. If you want to argue about that, I’ve got the plain wording of the Constitution backed up by over 200 years of jurisprudence as well as the personal writings of James Madison and Thomas Jefferson that says you’re flat out wrong.
This isn’t a Christian country no matter what you believe, Jim.
It’s a secular nation run by a secular government and it is this way by design.
os, the lure of the uniform………….
bettykath, I am definitely old enough to remember both the milkman and ice delivery man. The younger generation has a different focus. I was talking to my older daughter earlier and she went on and on about the handsome police officer who patrols her neighborhood. She spent quite a bit of time talking about his cologne and how great he smelled. Hmmmm…..
Well, she IS divorced, or I would be concerned.
Jim, You are correct that the marriage laws are made state by state. If you will recall, it was the Supreme Court that struck down state laws that prevented people of different races from marrying in Loving v Virginia on the basis of the 14th amendment. The bible was used as the excuse for the anti-miscegenation statutes. Maybe we need another trip to the Supreme Court.
OS, we have to be of the same generation. The handsome milkman is an historical figure that the younger folks wouldn’t know. Or you listened to your elders talk of him : D
All this “protection of marriage” stuff is hyperbolic bigotry. The average heterosexual married person should be more concerned about the good looking hetero person who lives down the street than the gay couple. I never heard of a gay couple breaking up a hetero marriage, but I have heard about the handsome milkman…..
bettykath
You are wrong!! Marriage is a state right. (10th amendment) By the way, how many states have voted down gay marriage? To answer your last question: We Christians believe that blessed is the nation whose lord is God. A nation who embraces that which God calls an abomination will only bring judgement upon itself. This is what Mr. Cathy was saying and it is true.
Blouise, thanks for the clip. I’m trying to remember where I was in ’92. Don’t think I had TV then either.
Otteray Scribe
What does it matter if the Bible is not mentioned in the Constitution? The first item in the 1st amendment is Religion. That clearly shows its importance. At that time the Bible was really the only book used and the country was made up of mostly Christians.
Jim 1, July 27, 2012 at 10:13 pm
mespo727272
Who is judging? This conversation is about stating what the Bible says on marriage. That is all! The problem Gays and Social Liberals have is not with people like me but rather the Bible. They can’t change it.
————————
Is this really about what the bible says? Or is it about civil rights? Marriage in this country was a civil rite/right, not a religious rite. It still is. Religions have jumped in to have their own services but marriages still aren’t recognized unless registered with the state, with or without a ceremony.
And, yes, Jim, you are judging. You are judging who should have the civil right to marry based on your own faith, one that is not shared by a large number of people. Should your faith trump the 14th amendment to the Constitution?
It probably does for you, but your faith doesn’t give you the right to take away the civil rights of others. You and Mr. Curly certainly have the right to not marry someone of your own gender, but you do not have the right to prevent others from exercising their own right to marry whomever they wish.
And the part I really don’t understand is why so many people of “faith” are so afraid that someone else’s marriage will diminish their own.
mespo,
Back to the Opening Ceremonies which have been … rather boring but then nothing could surpass 1992:
MESPO
Isaiah 19:18 This will happen in the millennium
Ezekiel 29:10-11 The 40 years did happen. It took place during the 70 year captivity Israel had in Babylon.
Matthew 24:34 This has not happened yet but will right before Christ’s return.
Isaiah 17:1 This happened by the Assyrians. (Proof-Isaiah 7:1-25, 8: 3-4,
II Kings 16: 5-18
Matthew 1:22-23 This surely happened with birth of Christ.
Blouise:
Seconded.