Florida Police Sued For Allegedly Pulling Over Mother For Rolling Through Stop Sign and Then Strip Searching Her In Front of Children and Passerbys

There is a shocking lawsuit filed against the Citrus County Sheriff’s Department in Florida in which Leila Tarantino claims that she was pulled over for going through a stop sign and then stripped searched by the side of the road in front of her children.

Tarantino says that she was pulled over last July for allegedly rolling through a stop sign. She claims the officer immediately pulled his weapon and pulled her from the car without explanation or warning. She says that she was left in the back of his squad car for two hours and then strip searched by the side of the road in full view of bystanders. She further claims that a female officer “forcibly removed” a tampon from her during the strip search. She claims that there were five male officers and one female officer.

The civil action suit is against the government of Citrus County, Florida, Sheriff Jeffrey Dawsey and six unnamed police officers.

This is one of those cases where only a fraction of the allegations would need to be proven to make for an outrageous case. A strip search by the side of the road is itself a gross violation of standard procedures. We have not however heard from the officers or the department. They may contest that this was an actual strip search and contest the specific graphic details of the complaint below.

The long period of detention and lack of charges however raise serious questions regarding the basis for holding Tarantino. She was released with only a citation.

Here is a copy of the lawsuit.

Source: RT

Kudos: Catherine Maloney

119 thoughts on “Florida Police Sued For Allegedly Pulling Over Mother For Rolling Through Stop Sign and Then Strip Searching Her In Front of Children and Passerbys

  1. This is a serious case of carelessness by police

    They *had only SIX officers at the scene*. ( for 2 hours)
    Where the HELL was the SWAT team? Two SWAT teams even?
    This woman and her kids were obviously very dangerous.

    Perhaps the lack of personnel at the scene was due to budgetary constraints.
    This would be a disgrace. Law enforcement needs more funding. They need bigger assault weapons and armoured military vehicles – and more people.

  2. Seems to me like there was something a while back saying strip searching was fine for anybody and anything. Wasn’t it one of the courts that said it okay? I remember there being a huge stink about it at the time, at least from people who read the article I did. I don’t know if it was on here, I don’t think I was reading JT at the time. But if that was true, strip searches for rolling stops are fine (and probably encouraged). I don’t however, remember, if it specified WHERE these strips searches could be conducted. And don’t ya’ll start on Florida again. This was for the whole country! (We just lead the way!)

  3. Some comments on my reading of the Complaint filed in Federal Court which can be accessed by clicking that blue spot above.

    1. If they would add claims for conspiracy pursuant to 42 U.S.C. Section 1985 they can use this to make all the named defendants liable (except the county) for all of the conduct of any single named defendant. And, they can use the statements of a conspirator against a co conspirator as an Admission under Rule 801 of the Federal Rules of Evidence. Admission of party opponent, in this case a conspiring party opponent. So, if one of the defendants snitches out the others then you have some real ammo.

    2. The inclusion of the 9th Amendment in the portions of the Constitution which was violated was smart. The right of privacy is central here.

    3. I would add the 5th Amendment. The plaintiff who was strip searched was deprived of life, LIBERTY, and property (the tampon at the very least) without due process of law. Some will think that the 14th Amendment covers this but the 5th needs to be claimed for several reasons.

    4. I would segregate the state law or state constitutional violations from the federal claims under the federal constittuion. So, I would omit the state constitution in that Count for the federal claims and add it in a separate Count just before the count for battery. I would have a separate state law claim (Count) for assault, battery, trespass, false arrest, etc.

    The reason I would add the 5th Amendment is that some judges in former slave states are what we call “Unreconstructed” to the applicabliity of the 14th Amendment to crimes and civil offenses committed by cops in their states–even federal judges. This deprivation of the plaintiff’s liberty interest can stand on its own but can also be funneled through the 14th Amendment. Small point but worth mentioning.

    At deposition I would ask the first witness deposed if they think it is a violation of some person’s rights to strip some of their clothes off. Then I would ask them how they would feel if their mom got treated like they treated this Hispanic lady. Then I would amend the Complaint and add claims of race and ethnic discrimination under 42 U.S.C. Section 1983 and 1985. In discovery try to obtain all of their radio communications which might be recorded.

  4. Nobody has asked about what was the police motivation. ?????

    Instruction of those not sufficiently adept in humiliation of citizens?
    A way to get some laughs and kill two hours, including humiliating the female officer??

    What’s the ratio between such violations of rights and the number of suits???

    It seems like a new torture technique is developed each week.

  5. I agree with our Professor on that if just a fraction of the accusations are held to be true this would be an outrage.

    I have never heard of a case of a strip search being performed outside a facility. The only time I could imagine it being performed is if there was a firearm hidden somewhere. For drugs, not in the field just take her to the jail and do it there. I suppose in theory a woman might be inclined to drive around her children while having a derringer within her vagina but the practical minded person in me believes at at this moment zero women in the world population are doing this currently.

    It would be interesting to read what the deputies’ reports were to this.

  6. the cops need to be charged with child endangerment , rape and kidnapping and go directly to jail like any of us would if we did anything similar to this to anyone..

  7. femeister: yea, is this just the start of the new strip searching all of us will be subjected to under the Supreme Court ruling?

    They can make any of us naked on demand anywhere they wish? For any reason they wish?

  8. And the police wonder why their image with the general public is so bad and getting worse every day.

    I know there are cops out there who do the job and do it both right and for the right reasons. One of you should have intervened in this outrageous travesty. Good cop? Not when your silence and loyalty to your “brotherhood” over the citizens you allegedly serve makes you complicit in criminal misconduct by your fellow officers. Make no mistake about it either. This can only be described as a criminal abuse of power. Every officer involved should be suspended and the instigators should be charged and fired.


  10. This is a superb legal website. I’m amazed @ how intelligent folks, interested or employed in the justice system, can jump to such conclusions. What is provided to us is THE COMPLAINT, THE PLAINTIFF’S VERSION OF WHAT OCCURED. Now, I agree w/ Mr. Turley that if just some of this is true, the key being the alleged strip search, then this is bad and Citrus County had better set aside a big reserve for damages.

    A cursory check by myself, who has worked civil litigation cases as a PI for decades, shows the plainiff is not mother of the year. I will leave it @ that. The Citrus County Court records are available online for free. You can do your own research.

    Having worked both criminal and civil cases I could tell stories that would make you hair stand up about police abuses. Conversely, I could tell you stories about civil complaints that were pure fiction. This looks bad. Things are however not always what they first appear.

  11. nick,

    Mother of the year or not isn’t the issue here.

    Abuse of authority is not excused because the victim isn’t pristine.

  12. I find it strange that her children, 1 and 4, are not also named in the lawsuit. Were they left alone in the car for more than 2 hours? Were they protected from the heat? Some important information is missing.

  13. There is the possibility that she is “Mule of the Year”, body cavity condom division, many things attached to string department.

    But that still does not excuse any part of the alleged actions.

    Wasn’t it the Sct decision to permit routine searchs upon arrival at arrest facilities that perhaps tickles Feemeister’s memory?

  14. Gene H, Your reaction is emotional. I concede the point that the ALLEGED ABUSE OF AUTHORITY IS UNNACCEPTABLE. My God, I’m just saying we don’t have any facts..JUST HER COMPLAINT. Did you read everything I said??

  15. MikeS,

    Something for you. Google Map review of “Roman” Temple at Baalbek, Lebanon, from 8,000 plus BC.

    “Paul Zola reviewed a month ago
    Quality 3 / 3

    Though the Romans built on this site, calling it the Temple of Jupiter, among other things, they of course were not the original builders. This site includes a foundation of stones larger and more vast in scale than the Great Pyramid at Giza, thus being the largest building project completed on the earth by early man. It is still debated who actually planned and built the Original Temple and Palaces of the complex. I am surprised that it is not listed as “Temple of Jupiter.” Notice that the area of the foundation is larger than any other buildings nearby, including the modern soccer stadium. The foundation dates to some ~8500 B.C. by records of the Sumerians. Don’t forget to check out the site of the nearby Garden of Eden(E.Din) near the Cedar Forest toward the mountains. Make the most of your trip to this area.”

    Was there in ’66.

  16. It is the cops thinking anyone with a ‘record’ ie – pot arrest or other non violent offenses can be treated as less than human. they see a ‘record’ for someone who made a minor traffic violation and decide they get to punish them for that and their past ‘law’ breaking.

    The cops get to racially profile now too.

    She is a nice looking young woman, do any think that did not have some little part in what the cops decided they could and would do to her?

    I want to see photos of the tubby fat acne scarred smelly bad breathed cops who ganged up on her and her babies for hours.

    Names and photos, please.

  17. nick,

    No. My reaction is rational and focused on the salient issue (which is not the victim’s fitness as a parent). Your shouting response and reflexive defense of authority figures is irrational. And there is nothing alleged about a road side strip search being an abuse of authority unless you’re an idiot. It’s an abuse of authority.

    But please feel free to shout some more. It makes your objections seem that much more credible. And by credible I mean ridiculous.

  18. Wow, This is a tough shoot from the hip crowd, or as Rodney Dangerfield would say, “Tough crowd..tough crowd,” as he pulled as his collar.

    idealist707, I thought about the mule possibility. There’s nothing in her court background to indicate that.

    Pacer is the Federal online court records. This case was filed a week ago[8/3/12]. Since I’m not as smart as all you folks who seem to know exactly what happened on that roadside, I’ll follow this case on Pacer.I just checked and the compalint is the only substantive record filed to date.

    Can all you psychics tell me who’s going to win @ Arlington Park tomorrow? I’m going down there w/ some friends. Or are your psychic abilities limited to the past?

  19. Gene H, Unless some extreme circumstances exist, I agree w/ you a roadside strip search is an abuse of authority. And, if you would read what I said about my knowing quite well about police abuse, you would understand I don’t have an agenda; except patience and waiting for the facts to evolve. You’re picking a winner after the opening kickoff just occurred. You must be psychic and know that’s what occurred. Or maybe you just hate cops? Do you have any experience in the law?

  20. *Gene H.

    *spin*-elli was just trying to impress with his superior sleuthing PI credentials.

    Now bow your head in submission to the tough guy and admit you are an emotional twit for failing to be impressed.

  21. nick,

    I’m not picking a winner at all. I’m keeping focused on the salient issue – which again is not the woman’s parenting skills. The matter is obviously one of contention as suit has been filed, however and as our host noted, that even if a portion of the allegations are true this is an outrageous case of abuse under color of authority. As to your agenda? I didn’t say you had one. I said your shouting and reflex defense of authority figures was irrational. Just because you’re irrational and wrong to focus on her parenting abilities which are totally unrelated to the case at bar doesn’t mean you have an agenda. It simply means you’re irrational and wrong. That doesn’t require psychic ability. That simply requires logic. Anything about this woman not directly related and relevant to the case at bar is inadmissible character evidence. Her character is not in question here. The potential abuse of her civil rights is though. A road side strip search is an egregious abuse of civil rights and there is no excuse for it procedurally. If they reasonably suspected her of being dangerous or something of the like that merits a strip search, she should have been taken in, booked and properly processed. If a road side strip search was performed here no matter what she did in the past or what the cops suspected about this woman, it is an abuse of authority. End of story.

  22. Rickad, I merely was explaining my experience as it is pertinent to the subject. I’m retired, and even when I worked, anyone who knows me will tell you I’m as low key as they come. Being low key is my personality and it fits well w/ being an effective PI, doing a lot of undercover work. I am a uber introvert actually. I just can’t stand people who don’t understand that facts are how you decide a case, not emotion or bias. If this allegation is true, as I said previously, Citrus County better have big bucks in reserve and I hope the plaintiff gets it all. I’ve just been around to long to cut her a check today. I feel like I fell down the rabbit hole here.

  23. On one of my not-better days I managed to slide thru a stop sign – directly in front of a cop. He did a u-turn and pulled me over. Actually, at first sign of the u-turn I pulled over. When he came to the window I gave him my license and registration. I had time to get it out while he did his cop thing in the car. He asked if I knew why I was pulled over. I said,”‘yes, I slid thru the stop sign.” No weapon was used. Cop was polite. I was polite (and ready to pay accept the ticket and pay the fine). He let me off with a warning. whew. So glad I didn’t do that in FL.

  24. Reason # 311 why I never want to move to Florida, live in Florida or visit Florida again (been there once, that’s enough).

  25. To those screaming “this is a result of the supreme courts strip search ruling last year”… It’s not. That ruling (Florence v. Burlington County) had to do with facilities only. It was about detainees receiving a “close visual” inspection upon admit and incarceration or holding – nothing more. There is nothing in the ruling or the suit that brought it to suggest you can “be stripped at any time for anything”. The Florence ruling was a shame, but not applicable here.

    This incident appears to be something else entirely.

  26. “Anything about this woman not directly related and relevant to the case at bar is inadmissible character evidence. Her character is not in question here. The potential abuse of her civil rights is though. A road side strip search is an egregious abuse of civil rights and there is no excuse for it procedurally.”

    And since police actions must be within grounds which will stand judicial scrutiny, then their actions are out of bounds.

    But the next question is why do they then do these egregrious deeds consistently, and with higher authorities protection behind them?

    Is it all’s fair in love and war, and there is no love here?

    PS A balloon just passed over 300 feet up and gassing.
    Sounded like a dragon expressing his anger.

  27. Nick,

    I’ve never been there, but apparently you have.
    Is it a rabbit hole we have fell into?
    I always think of the cowboy horse who breaks his leg in a gopher hole and has to be shot. Different people/different associations. Cool.

    Maybe he means well, but his pedagogy is not up to par with the needs of humans.

    Wait until you see his attack against the establishment. Pure joy to watch (for me at least).

  28. I don’t understand why it was necessary to bring up the woman’s past, whatever it might be. If the whole idea is to not approach this with bias/ emotion, what is the point, then, of bringing up her alleged past if not to engender bias/emotion against this lady?

    And yes, Shano, you are so correct about past minor infractions used as an excuse to degrade, abuse and pile on. Even when the “offender” is a minor. This is why I continue to read this blog. Any one of us can become a victim to these increasingly shocking abuses.

  29. “If the whole idea is to not approach this with bias/ emotion, what is the point, then, of bringing up her alleged past if not to engender bias/emotion against this lady?” – pollyannacurmudgeon

  30. It will be interesting to see the officer’s incident reports. There have been instances in which the collusion was so obvious that conspiracy charges were brought against officers. In this case, I am also interested in seeing what emerges in discovery. Dash cam video with sound also should be interesting. Somebody bring the popcorn.

    Most officers just want to do a good job and go home to their families at the end of their shift. Then we have incidents like this. Sometimes you have whole departments with a scofflaw mentality. As they say, a fish rots from the head down. I went to the Citrus County Sheriff’s Department web site to take a peek. Typical self-congratulatory puff pieces with nary a mention of this incident.

  31. pollyannacurmudgeon, There was a lynching party underway. I checked on Pacer to see if the defense even had enough time to respond, they have not. As previously stated, the complaint was filed a week ago. I was curious about the plaintiff. The fact that the cop haters here were ready to lynch them and still are assuming absolute guilt on their part is more than a bit distressing. I didn’t go into details about the plaintiff’s background, but simply left it up to others to research if they wanted. We have no facts on this alleged incident. I’ve worked way too many cases to assume ANYTHING. And if you consider 2 DUI’s “minor infractions” then I pray I don’t live near you. I grant you they’re not major, but I hope those here, who don’t have their own alcohol issues, would not be as cavalier as you.

    Let me say for the 4th time, if this occurred, then I hope this woman gets all the $’s she deserves..every penny. What I sense in this case is a possible history. The plaintiff has had more than a few police contacts in Citrus County. Possibly one of these cops had a grudge against her from a prior contact. Whether all you cop haters realize it or not, that is sometimes the scenario in police abuse cases. That not only doesn’t make it right, it makes it worse in my opinion. A cop w/ a gun and a grudge is REALLY bad.

    I apologize for not drinking the cop hater koolaid. I hated koolaid even as a child.

  32. What happens in Florida doesn’t stay in Florida I guess. While I don’t have any personal ill-feelings toward the police, I am increasingly dismayed by what is reported about their conduct. Please, Professor, do follow-up on this. Thanks!

  33. Wootsy’s, There’s a good chance the cops names will become public as this case proceeds. The plaintiff’s attorney may still be sorting through what cop allegedly did what and is awaiting discovery to be more specific. That’s the most likely scenario, but you can be Oliver Stone if you wish. It’s America.

  34. The fact that the cop haters here were ready to lynch them and still are assuming absolute guilt on their part is more than a bit distressing.
    I’m not a cop hater by a long shot. And I am not of the camp that believes that fear equates with respect…I consider respect to be much more weighty and courageous and I have a very healthy respect for Law…but having lived awhile in Florida I can say that this sort of thing happens because it happens over and over. And maybe it is just the terrain but my ‘respect’ has been diminished to say the least.

    [remember Trayvon Marvtin….. ]

  35. And now the *spin*-elli against pollyannacurmudgeon: “And if you consider 2 DUI’s “minor infractions” then I pray I don’t live near you. I grant you they’re not major, but I hope those here, who don’t have their own alcohol issues, would not be as cavalier as you.”

  36. puzzling, strip searching kids? it’s already happening. tsa leads the way. for more examples go to youtube and search on tsa strip search.

  37. Nick

    I’m working on keeping an open mind. Any idea why there were six officers on scene for a rolling through a stop sign violation?

  38. Curious, Great question! I don’t know but discovery should hopefully explain as the case proceeds. It is curious. Almost certainly the original officer asked for backup; the big question being why? Six cops does seem like overkill. But again, people w/ open minds will wait for facts. Some of the folks here are ready to pay Ms. Tarantino today.

  39. nick:

    I appreciate your inquisitive mind and this looks like a “more than meets the eye” case. I’ll reserve judgment, but I agree with Gene that her parenting skills are not implicated at all.

  40. nick:

    My guess is this was a drug stop. They got a partial description of the vehicle hence the cops turn around. Tarantino’s vehicle matched so they did a felony stop complete with backup and strip search.

  41. mespo, A very possible scenario. And cops take care of their own[which I’ve said in another thread]. But, w/ the advent of video cams in squad cars there is more documentation than is prior decades.

    Being a formerly good Catholic boy I will say a perfect act of contrition for mentioning the plaintiff’s background. It was professional curiosity. But first, I need the folks who have already ruled in the palintiff’s favor to back off. Then my mea culpa.

  42. If it had been a priest in his collar in the car, what then?
    Or a white male?
    Or the police commissioner?

    Since when did social rank and race inhibit constitutional protections?

  43. Correction: I meant “plaintiff, not “palintiff.” I just saw that photo of here wearing heels and a tight t-shirt and jeans.

  44. idealist707, In a perfect world social rank would have no influence. I’ve not found that world as yet.

  45. Nick,

    Now you are teaching me. Thanks.
    Am always willing to learn.

    But it is always funny that this takes so long to “lose” the squad car video file.

    And no, not a cop hater, but one all too ready to prejudge. When are we citizens ever offered an alternative to just reading the headlines and pre-digested reports? Facts? Never. Correctly shown? Never.

    And we are taught from the first grade to accept only one case of truth, the one from above. Judge, decide yourself?
    Never. That is actually different today some claim for some schools.

  46. the back up called prevented the original cop from actually raping her. he had a female officer do it for him. he watched. still thinks about this every day, too.

    we dont hate cops, we just hate the fact that they can do incredible things to civilians that would put most people in jail-
    and they get away with it with no repercussions except paid vacations –
    everything from outright murder (Chamberlaine case) to pulling out tampons in broad daylight on a public street.

  47. OT OT OT

    Lawyers, I have concluded, are the only professionals where among other skills, the primary ones are the use of abuse with words of your opponent. Logic, earlier precedents, verbal agility, all are weapons highly developed.

    A layman venturing in here is a cowboy stumbling into the OK corral. (Another place where it today is quiet, I was there in ’61)

    Police are still an open question with me.

  48. “Being a formerly good Catholic boy I will say a perfect act of contrition for mentioning the plaintiff’s background. It was professional curiosity. But first, I need the folks who have already ruled in the palintiff’s favor to back off. Then my mea culpa.”

    First, a conditional apology based upon the actions of third parties for improperly impugning the character of a principle party is not an apology. You don’t owe anyone here an apology. If anyone is owed an apology, you owe Leila Tarantino an apology regardless of what anyone here does or says.

    Second, if in referring to “the folks who have already ruled in the palintiff’s favor” you mean me, I wouldn’t suggest holding your breath waiting for an apology you are not due let alone for a position I did not take. I respect straw men even less than I respect emotional and/or irrational arguments and in any case I would not apologize for taking you to task for wrongly brining her parenting skills into question as being in any way relevant to this discussion of the potential violation of her civil rights under any circumstances. If you don’t like having missteps/mistakes like that pointed out? Don’t make them. However, if you’re going to sulk and not give Tarantino the apology she deserves from you because you didn’t like having your emotional and irrational criticisms of her pointed out and want an apology you are simply not due? That is your decision.

    Also, for future reference, “back off” is not something I’m either known for or inclined to do.

  49. idealist:

    “Excuse my ignorance. Do all felony stops mean strip searchs in public, including body cavities?”


    No. However the Supreme Court in Florence v. Board of Chosen Freeholders, 566 U.S. ___ (2012), ruled that strip searches were permissible in jail settings even if the defendant was charged with a minor crime to protect jail officers and to prevent contraband. A perfectly dastardly decision in my opinion which gave constitutional sanction to a practice that was far from universal. Armed with this fear-based constitutional ruling some authorities are taking the matter a step further and conducting strip searches in the name of officer safety. I think this is what may have happened here. Welcome to civil rights under the Roberts Court.

  50. *spin*-elli’s lame justification for trashing the plaintiff: “They made me do it!”

    *Being a formerly good Catholic boy I will say a perfect act of contrition for mentioning the plaintiff’s background. It was professional curiosity. But first, I need the folks who have already ruled in the palintiff’s favor to back off. Then my mea culpa.*

  51. Roberts.


    And to think I used to think we couldn’t do any worse than Rehnquist and then along comes Roberts (and Scalia and Thomas) to prove that old adage about things can always get worse.

  52. About attacking this plaintiff’s “parenting skills” — it’s par for the course. When any mother is victimized or attacked in any way for any alleged misdeed, her “parenting skills” are in the “fair game for all adversaries” bucket. It’s just the way mothers are seen in this culture: Either you’re perfect in every way (all the patriarchs love you and you love all of them, for starters) or you’re a “bad mother” as in “Baaaaaaad Mother.”

    The same goes for young thugs like Trayvon Martin. Once somebody allegedly murders you, anything you have ever done or were alleged to have done in any way that was considered imperfect in any way is proof positive you were a thug who needed to be killed in the defense of the good people who want a good world to live in.

  53. Gene H, May I call you Jesus, or just Son of God. My experience is the sanctimonous never “back off” and incredibly they double down on 14[a blackjack reference]. You still haven’t answered my quite basic question regarding your expertise. Does working @ a 7-11 give you credibility, or just free Big Gulps? I did not “IMPUGN” the plaintiff’s character, I simply directed people to a govt. website that would provide insights into her background. The facts speak for themselves. You however have no problem impugning the cops in this case w/ no facts in eveidence. Gene H, I provide my complete name and folks can research me. I live in Wisconsin. I’m a licensed PI. In the words of the WHO.. “Who the F$^K are you?” I give my full name and I stand by what I say.

    Rickad, When you form complete thoughts I’ll respond further to you. Remember to take your evening meds.

  54. Malisha, I seed you have all the facts on Trayvon Martin also. Where do you enlightened folks get all the facts us poor folks don’t have? Wonderland?

  55. shano, Rape? Really? Then why just file a civil suit? Rape is a felony. The smart legal move would be to get a rape conviction or plea and then file the civil suit.

  56. shano, Do you hate the cops who got a confession from the subhuman in KC. They must have beat it out of him,right? Your ilk hate cops until they pull your ass out of a wringer. Again, I know more about the abuses of cops than most of the idealogues here. They are not saints, nor are they satan. They are us, flawed human beings.

  57. nick, if i may answer for malisha, there are 3-4 threads on this blog about Zimmerman. Use the search function above. A tremendous amount of material has been released – Zimmerman’s statements to police, Zimmerman’s walk-thru, police reports, a video of Zimmerman’s voice stress test, witness statements and audio recordings.

    sling has done a great job of analysis, most particularly of Zimmerman’s call to the police non-emergency number and his walk-thru.

    One of the threads is “New evidence in Zimmerman case” Near the end of the comments, sling has a pointer to the analysis.

  58. nick,

    Oooooo. P.I. Appeal to your own authority (such as it is) much? I’m so . . . not impressed. Who am I? You aren’t much of a P.I. if you haven’t figured that out, genius. Here’s hint: What Makes A Good Law, What Makes A Bad Law?

    Thanks for your explosive outburst though.

    Very informative and illustrative.

    Of what exactly I’ll leave up to the reader.

  59. *spin-elli

    No need. Your responses are one dimensional rants and full of contradictions. You demand from others that which you are, yourself, incapable of giving and quite naturally fail to see the flaws within both your arguments and your presentation.

    According to you:
    Gene is emotional and works at 7-11 and thinks he’s Jesus and psychic
    Woosty is Oliver Stone
    pollyannacurmudgeon thinks DUI’s are minor infractions
    Malisha is in wonderland
    shano is a cop hating ilk
    Rickad needs evening meds
    And you’ll do a mea culpa only if everybody else apologizes first.

    Professional curiosity led you to trash the plaintiff? That’s what you tell yourself.

    I won’t even bother reading you again.

  60. bettykath, People who know me, which includes no person here, get frustrated w/ me when I offer no opinions regarding ongoing cases. And, I’m often asked for my opinion. Like this civil case in Citrus County, I prefer to wait for the case and facts to evolve. I apologize to you and all impatient folks for not making instant or partial judgements. I am a patient man in an increasingly impatient culture. I still look upon patience as a strength, realizing full well most look upon it as a weakness.

  61. Gene Howington, I apolgize profusely. You are apparently a sometimes guest blogger here and a legend in your own mind. I’m new in these parts and I have been warned to mind the pecking order. I am both humbled and impressed. Do I kiss your ring or ass prior to calling you FOS?

  62. Like I said, oh hard of understanding one, you don’t owe anyone here an apology.

    However, you do owe Leila Tarantino an apology.

    And if you’re really interesting in kissing someone’s ass I suggest you start with your own. It’s going to be sore if you ever decide to pull your head out of it. Maybe kissing your boo boo will make it all better. Or not.

  63. Do I owe the plaintiff an apology for her transgressions that are public record, accessible to anyone online? I thought you were an attorney, or do you just play one on tv.
    when someone files a lawsuit their public, and to a great degree their private record, are fair game. These cops records will be fair game, as they should also be. What type of law do you practice, bankruptcy? Or, do you just teach?

  64. nick, There is a difference between the two cases. In the more recent one, only the complaint is known. (I’m not familiar with your reference and have no curiosity to go there). It is damning of the cops. Do they have a side? Of course. Nothing happened here, move along, folks. ok, I’m a cynic when it comes to cops being thugs. Will I pay attention to the cops’ statement? yes. Will I carefully watch the dashboard video? yes, if it hasn’t been “lost”. oh, dear, there’s that cynicism again.

    In the Zimmerman case there is a lot very credible information available from both sides. If the prosecutor does a credible job, Zimmerman will be spending a long time in jail. His story just doesn’t work.

  65. If you don’t know when you owe someone an apology for attacking their character with inadmissible and irrelevant evidence simply because they are the plaintiff, I suggest you look to the parenting skills applied to you. It’s that whole plank/mote problem. However, you claim to not have an agenda yet you are unrepentant in your attacks on Taratino’s character, all the while bemoaning the scrutiny these cops are going to be under because of their alleged and very serious misuse of authority they are charged with.


    If these cops have records of interactions with CPS or Family Court, are you going to be willing to trot that out as damning them in this instant case as well? Or mitigating? Or will you cry irrelevant then? Because they are cops.

    Uh huh.

  66. bettykath, Pease read all that I’ve said here. You misrepresent what I’ve said. Most of what we know in Zimmerman are self serving leaks from both sides. All I’m ever interested in is facts that have been accepted as evidence in court. To date, there is no trial or evidence in Zimmerman or Tarantino. I don’t trust cops, I don’t trust ANYONE. I trust the rule of law and evidence. To date, there are none in this matter or Zimmerman. It’s not that complicated although some try and make it so.

  67. nick, I’m curious, you went to the trouble of looking up non-relevant information about Tarantino but you aren’t interested in the official documents, lots of them, about Zimmerman?

    You’re patient and don’t offer opinions on on-going cases? That’s very noble of you, and boring. And no one here cares. Your opinions are welcome but not required.

    It’s not nice to throw smelly stuff at Melisha (or anyone else) because we do offer opinions. I inferred a question from your slam at Melisha and provided you with pointers (that were more direct than what you provided) so you can see that Melisha, and myself, aren’t offering opinions in the dark. Look at it or not.

  68. I attacked no one Gene. Now get some sleep. I applaude scrutiny of both parties, that is what this justice system is based upon. You were ready to lynch the cops and I called you on it. I know in your little world you’re not used to getting called on horse manure. Well, Gene get used to it! Again, Gene, besides being guest blogger here what are your credentials?

  69. nick, “Most of what we know in Zimmerman are self serving leaks from both sides.”

    That may be all you know, but don’t lump us into that. Read what I posted. What has been released, according to FL law, includes

    all of Zimmerman’s statements to the police, either in his own handwriting or in video; Zimmerman’s walk-thru video with the police; official witness statements, including audio recordings, the video of Zimmerman’s voice stress test; all the police and emt reports; security camera videos; autopsy report; forensic reports on the gun, the holster and the clothing of both Zimmerman and Martin; state investigators’ reports; and stuff I don’t remember off hand.

    It’s all on the web. There are links in the threads on this blog. Help yourself. or not.

  70. bettykath, I’ve been involved in thousands of trials. Nothing, I repeat, nothing is official until it has been accepted as evidence. You’ve convicted Zimmerman, I’m sorry I’m not ready to jump on the bandwagon. I will not find in favor of these cops or Ms.Tarantino. Yes, I am “boring” in that regard. But, that’s the way it’s suppose to work. We are all in the USA aren’t we?

  71. Oooo. The attempt at reversal, that straw man again and attacking my credentials.

    You’ll have to do better than that, amateur. I was trained by the Jesuits.

  72. You find no favor for the cops and yet trot out some unrelated family matter as character evidence against Tarantino. And I quote “A cursory check by myself, who has worked civil litigation cases as a PI for decades, shows the plainiff is not mother of the year. I will leave it @ that.” The implication being that her not being “mother of the year” is somehow relevant to her claim against the police.

    Yeah. There’s bias and bullshit going on here, sport, but you’re the one serving it up.

  73. Tough crowd, tough crowd.

    Here thay play as though it was a zero-sum game. Ie limited attention, bandwidth, attention span, ranking, whatever. In fact, with moderate tolerance new ideas, right or wrong, which can be discussed can emerge, in spite of the abouve mentioned limited resources.

    Now that means ideas repugnant in form, content, purpose,
    congruence, rigorosity, information content, etc etc. may emerge also.

    The atmosphere quickly clouds as those established, of old or of new arrivals, seek to defend their share, their territory, their prestige, their egos.

    Ach, we people—how pitiful we are.

    Just saying goodnight after checking in from writing a long essay to my friends on the translation from one mind to another.

  74. If these cops have records of interactions with CPS or Family Court, are you going to be willing to trot that out as damning them in this instant case as well? Or mitigating? Or will you cry irrelevant then? Because they are cops.

    I’m still interested in an answer to these questions.

  75. raff,

    To be a samurai in argumentation, a machine in logic and a ninja researcher. For their part it involved the academic equivalent of being thrown off a cliff combined with the occasional cattle prod, very little sleep and a fair amount of drinking. Standard law school fare.:mrgreen:

  76. i wonder whose exgirlfriend she is. strip searching and removing someones tampon on the side of the road sounds like a personal message.

  77. Anonymously Yours
    1, August 10, 2012 at 3:22 pm

    How so?
    I think it (not mentioning the cops names) is a false shield for the cop and an element that allows for too much venting of group behavior onto the civilian. It shores up an ‘Us and Them’ mentality and creates a false (hopefully) dynamic where the power imbalance can be exploited either consciously or unconsciously. In short, it feeds into situations of potential abuse. I find it interesting that here on a legal blog we often see the names of the victims or accused and it is not after the verdict has been reached.

    I am Oliver Stone

  78. nick spinelli: “Your ilk hate cops until they pull your ass out of a wringer. Again, I know more about the abuses of cops than most of the idealogues here. They are not saints, nor are they satan. They are us.

    Late to the party but, couple of things: No they are not us. there are some things no normal person does and that includes strip searching someone in public if the allegation is accurate. Strip searches are done in an official facility, to do it otherwise is meant to humiliate and inflict mental/emotional anguish. Her background is irrelevant, only what took place at the stop is relevant and that would be the case regardless of sex, age, race, handicapping condition, whatever label you want to apply.

    Also, I am simply tired of the ‘until they pull your ass out of the wringer’ argument regarding the military and the the police. That’s their job, that’s what they chose to do, that’s what gets them their pay check, that’s why they exist as a profession. That argument being used by others to justify bad work is craven, and by the ‘professionals’ in question no more than whining.

    And like Romney, I like firing people that work for me, people that screw-up egregiously, are bad at their job, don’t follow the rules, that bring deserved disrespect on their profession. If the allegation is accurate I’d fire them first and put them in jail for assault second. Would not hesitate. If that’s being an ideologue then color me an unreconstructed ideologue.

  79. Wow, I was busy with other stuff when something I said got someone riled and then someone else defended me and all like that, and I’m sorry to say I didn’t get any good additions to my own stand-up act from it all. But anyway, thanks, BettyKath et al., for pointing out that there was real information available in the Zimmerman case (which used to be called the Trayvon Martin case).

    I think my statement was: “The same goes for young thugs like Trayvon Martin. Once somebody allegedly murders you, anything you have ever done or were alleged to have done in any way that was considered imperfect in any way is proof positive you were a thug who needed to be killed in the defense of the good people who want a good world to live in.”

    OK, nothing I have said in that paragraph refers to evidence. It DOES refer to “allegations not in evidence [yet],” of course. The reason I don’t opine on evidence is that I am not a judge. The reason I do weigh in and give my opinion of news items, blog items, and other stuff is simply that I have a First Amendment right to do so and at times it pleases me (or at least doesn’t DISplease me) to do so.

    But I don’t mind explaining how I came to my opinions.

    OPINION: “The same goes for young thugs like Trayvon Martin.”

    HOW I CAME TO MY “OPINION”: This is not my opinion. This is an attempt at sarcasm. I am pointing out that a person who was, in my opinion, victimized (deprived of life without due process) was thereafter characterized as a young thug because many people putting up articles and comments on the web wanted to portray him as a young thug in order to make his killer seem innocent of wrongdoing.

    OPINION: “Once somebody allegedly murders you,”

    HOW I CAME TO MY OPINION: Zimmerman was charged with murder.

    OPINION: “Anything you have ever done or were alleged to have done in any way that was considered imperfect in any way is proof positive you were a thug”

    HOW I CAME TO MY OPINION: Many comments on many blogs have vigorously asserted that Trayvon Martin (against whom no evidence has ever been entered in a court of law, EVER) stole, intended to steal more, threatened, projected the image of a violent racist, smoked and/or sold drugs, and was generally bad. All of these comments related to “information” that was unconfirmed from any official sources and that would have to be confidential, even if it had been valid, since he was a juvenile for his entire life. None of the negative “information” promulgated about him was public record anywhere. Yet it was used to convey the impression that Trayvon Martin was not only a thug, but a would-be murderer who intended to kill George Zimmerman and who was only foiled because HE FORGOT HIS WEAPON and George Zimmerman (who said HE FORGOT HE WAS CARRYING HIS WEAPON UNTIL TRAYVON MARTIN REACHED FOR IT) did not.

    OPINION: “… who needed to be killed in the defense of the good people who want a good world to live in.”

    HOW I CAME TO MY OPINION: Frank Taaffe got on TV and said that the shooting happened because there were so many crimes committed by young black men and George Zimmerman was “fed up.” Many commenters on various blogs (some on the Turley blogs included) wrote: “Live like a thug, die like a thug.” Other commenters have actually written that George Zimmerman did a good thing by killing this particular thug so he couldn’t do more harm. Police Chief Lee said he did not know why Zimmerman “thought he had to shoot [Trayvon Martin]” which presumes that Zimmerman DID THINK HE HAD TO SHOOT TRAYVON MARTIN. Zimmerman wrote in his statement to the police on 2/26/2012 that Trayvon Martin was “the suspect.” Some goons in Virginia came out with a poster, clearly depicting Trayvon Martin as a target to shoot at, with the legend saying that they of course supported George Zimmerman and believed that “he shot a thug.”

    Yes, there are the rumors, documents, and recorded voices that gave me the sources from which I drew the opinion that I wrote.

    Of course, I could be wrong. But if I am in Wonderland, the looking glass that I passed through to get here was reflecting the society in which I live. And it is not a “fun house mirror” — it is reflecting something with very little discernible distortion.

  80. Two caveats here. As for the plaintiff, look up the term Rape Shield and see how that might influence what comes up with regard to any repute questions of her in court. Second, as Mespo says no need to do this in the field, unless maybe a half pound of Semtex was to be found. Maybe the girl officer heard Semtex instead of Kotex. What do I know.

    Oh, and on a personal note can I have a derrogatory phrase assigned to me as well? It’s been almost 8 months since I retired from LE and I haven’t been insulted enough lately. Gene’s one for working at 7-11 and thinking he is Jesus was great. I’d like one as well if I may.

    Spare me no dishonor, jest, or humiliation and I shall absolve you of your sins. A scapegoat for blogosphere shall I be. I will turn the other cheek. And when I am to blame for everything, contention between others will be no more. And civility will be risen.

  81. GeneH and Rafflaw,

    1. Amazed that the question is posed after all these years together here. Staged?

    2. Such techniques which the Jesuit fathers employed and alleged to be standard lawyer experiences would seem potentially trqamatizing. Of course some are more resistant to trauma than others.

    3. For the sake of futhering this I will presume that GeneH did resist the effects and escaped with personality intact.

    4. I offer the above comment solely as an observation due to my interest in emotional trauma and its treatment. And I am obviously not equipped to diagnose it if it were present.

    5. Gene’s debate can be observed and be found to follow certain recurring methods. Where these come from I have no idea, as again my experience of the field is noll.

    6. Basicly it is one used in political debates, but with the gloves of protocol and politesse removed. An effective one on the stump circuit if you have good bodyguards with you. At least I imagine it was so in Huey Long’s time.

    7, It can be defeated, given certain presumptions which are fulfilled. I have seen GeneH defeated. And the victor did his victory rounds for about three days and then disappeared to other places.

    8. No one awarded the victor a “belt” to bear with him as proof of his achievement.

    9. Just so you know, repeated exposure to “trauma” non-painful stimuli without pain will de-potentiate the response over time. However true extinction is not accomplished. My presumption is that the “total” is not stored in just one place in the brain. Dredd might know.

    10. I am thankful for the opportunities which JT’s provides. Smile.

  82. Good day to you Lotta Katz.

    Without referring to persons, I believe you are less sensitive to certain stimuli shich would cause my gorge to rise. Sanctimony being one I recall. Self-esteem spreading its flabby grey flesh over a scene is

    also nauseating.

  83. Darren,

    Just in case nick doesn’t oblige you: You think you’re Shiva and you sell vodka what done made me to wake up married to a dozen Mormons!

    I didn’t want you to feel left out.:mrgreen:

  84. Fortunately the Lord has an infinite numbers of cookie cutters. Some models emit more gas than others. Design error? The Lord is perfect they say. But why this obviously imperfect world. Teodice, I think it is called.

    Above my balcony in the Saturday sunshine, my neighbor
    plays excellent Spanish guitar. It is the teenaged sun in the family.

    He has also taste for modern folk composer/singers such as Cornelium Vreesvik, a genius who drank himself to death, one of two here. A long tradition. Of course, not all the deaths were composer/singers of merit.

  85. What Gene H and Nick S have said makes me now begin to wonder: Was this over-staffed psycho-stop perhaps some kind of orchestrated action that the police performed at the request of somebody suing for custody? Hmmmm. I heard of a custody case back in the early eighties in Virginia (and New Mexico and Texas and Germany) that started with a father arranging a “police action” [he was connected, which is how New Mexico, Texas and Germany got involved] so that the mom could be immediately thought of as either crazy or perjurious. One of the police officers who was involved in it actually admitted to a social worker that he had gotten his first call not from the mom (who was charged with making a false police report) but from her husband (who told the cop that his wife needed to speak with the police, and to send a squad car to interview her). In Maryland recently there was a custody case brought by a maternal grandmother against her own daughter, again, starting with a peculiar and seemingly random police stop, but the custody-seeking grandmother was an employee of the state agency (of a neighboring state) evaluating child abuse claims; again, well connected.

  86. I think it’s much more likely that she gave a passing cop a comeon look that obviously said, ”Hey Honey, come on over and I’ll let you detamponize me in front of God and everybody, and you’ll just love every second of it.”

    I mean, it’s OBVIOUS that’s what happened. Didn’t you read her BACKRGROUND? Just remember! Don’t form an opinion until ALL the facts are in. You’re not Jesus you know!

  87. If yer gonna have laws, enFORCE them! Tired of traffic laws enforced sporadically. Every one who has a burned out tag light should be pulled over, strip-searched and their vehicle impounded.

  88. Oh, I fergot. Do a forfeiture on the vehicle involved, no matter how minor the violation. And if the vic… citizen doesn’t like it, a good Tasing, pepper spraying and maybe a beating if the citizen persists in objecting, demanding “rights,” etc.

  89. Al, please do have them make sure to cuff the vic, er, citizen FIRST, with their hands behind their backs, prior to the tazing and spraying. (This helps the aiming to be more effective.) After all, we don’t want them to make trouble during the procedure. Additionally, if all are lucky, maybe they will help us all out and shoot themselves in the head while their hands are cuffed behind the back. That saves the legal, lawabiding citizens taxpayer money in the longrun, if they decide just to do us all a favor and off themselves. it’s just so TIDY that way!

  90. Instead of spraying them, if the look promiscuous, they should spay them to prevent them from reproducing. Population of controlled subjects (citizens) is growing unmanageable anyway.

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