Constitutional Law, Politics, Religion, Supreme Court

Ryan: Prayer In Public Schools Is A State Issue

-Submitted by David Drumm (Nal), Guest Blogger

Paul Ryan, Republican nominee for Vice President, said he believes that states should have the right to determine if prayer in public schools is allowed. In response to a question from a campaign volunteer, Ryan said that’s “a constitutional issue of the states.” Prayer in public schools is a hot-button issue for religious conservatives. Was Ryan simply pandering to the Republican base or does he truly not support the separation of church and state?

While any student can silently pray during school, that’s not the kind of prayer that the religious right is talking about. They want the kind of prayer that is foisted upon young minds by school authority figures. Those in the classroom are a captive audience, compelled by law to attend.

In the case of Engel v. Vitale (1962), the Supreme Court found that a New York state law, directing a School District’s principal to cause a prayer to be said aloud by each class in the presence of a teacher, was “wholly inconsistent with the Establishment Clause.” The Court noted that the First Amendment was “made applicable to the State of New York by the Fourteenth Amendment of the said Constitution.”

Ryan goes on to say that the decision to say a prayer is the “moral responsibility of parents.” However, a government sponsored prayer violates the very parental responsibility he claims to support. The decision not to say a prayer is also the responsibility of parents. A child should neither be pressured to pray nor pressured not to pray. Religious parents would scream bloody murder if their child was pressured not to pray, but these same parents have no qualms when pressuring other children to pray.

Government sponsored prayer in public schools is a blatant attempt to refresh and reinforce religious beliefs of  the children of religious parents and indoctrinate the children of parents who have different beliefs.

H/T: Steve M., New York Times, Americans United.

131 thoughts on “Ryan: Prayer In Public Schools Is A State Issue”

  1. Blouise,

    Allow me to use your joke:

    White man speak with phucked forked brains.

    We do have two brain halves, but I don’t that is the problem.

  3. I was a committed Protestant in Elementary school and there are two things I remember to this day.
    A couple of kids beating the heck out of one of my friends because his religion (I think it was 7 Day Adventist but am not sure now) would not allow him to stand for the pledge since you should not pledge allegiance to any other than God.
    A couple of Catholic kids beating the heck out of me because I had a Celtic sounding name therefore should have been Catholic not Methodist.

    I remember those things every time these illegitimate children try to pretend we can drag God into schools, or the public square. They think this won’t happen this time.

  4. Mike, don’t be mean to whores. They actually work for a living and provide a service. Comparing Ryan to whores is totally unfair to working women.

    1. OS,

      You’re right. Ryan should not be compared with a whore. One is an honorable person, striving hard to make their way in the world, who are honest in their intentions and the other is Paul Ryan.

  5. Since they have not let my original post out of moderation and in light of Dan’s ignorance of American history (the separation of church and state was a key for the founders because the religious wars in the Colonies and those still ongoing in Europe were very much on the founders minds) I am going to try posting it below slightly editied to see if it will get through

  6. As a Jewish boy growing up in the 50’s and going to an elementary school that was at least 50% Jewish, the forced Christian prayers at assemblies and the forced celebrations of Christmas and Easter were distressing to me. I thought we had settled the issue via SCOTUS in the 60’s. However, the Fundy Right wants to revisit the issue via States Rights. From the same folks who brought us Jim Crow. Ryan is little more than a sociopathic whore.

  8. “Take God out of the equation, and then there isn’t any personal responsibility …” (Hubert Cumberdale)

    Angry white male speaks with forked pen.

  9. It’s embarrassing that anybody wants prayer in public schools, much less a public official or someone running for office. Don’t parents have the right to wake the kids up five minutes earlier in the morning to pray with them?

    Dear Originator of all No-Brainers,
    Help us, your people, to rise above the inconsiderable.
    Amen.

  10. Hubert

    “The root cause of the whole problem is that people would be reminded of personal responsibility if God is recognized and that things actually matter. Take God out of the equation, and then there isn’t any personal responsibility and there isn’t anything considered higher than the state and federal government. Likewise, there wouldn’t be any consequences for wrongdoings.”

    This is so counter to my experience. The folks I know who have God on the tip of their tongue morning til night and who pray for all things are the ones who put all responsibility for everything that happens on God. They have no power or responsibility. It’s all God’s doing. George Zimmerman claims that when he killed unarmed student Trayvon Martin that it was all God’s plan, George had no power to not kill him.

    What does God do to me if I hit another person? Nothing. But the other person just might hit me back harder. Doesn’t take long for me to learn that it’s not a good idea to hit others. Or is it your contention that it was God who is responsible for sending millions of young people to war?

  11. Suzzie:

    Which prayers does he want in the schools? Hebrew, Muslim, Christian, Moron?

    LOL!

  12. If you are all for prayer in school, would you feel comfortable with all the different versions of prayer, including at least two to three prayer times during school hours by students of the Muslim faith? Do atheists like me get recess each time during the time students pray?
    As a long-time teacher I must say that I don’t know how I’d fit all that prayer time into an already full curriculum.
    Will I, as an atheist teacher, be required to supervise students during their prayer time? Do the atheist students get to go out and play soccer with me instead?

    And as for your idea that responsibility derives from having God in one’s life, you can’t be serious! All I have to do is look around the globe where religious people, the ones who you claim take responsibility for their actions, are killing one another in non-stop fashion. To blame it on the ‘left’ is laughable.

  14. Hubert,
    Osteichthyes like you should not go swimming in a barrel. You’re too easy a target.

    I love your invoking of the old weasel phrase “special interest groups,” and your use of the enraged-reactionary-letter-to-the-editor standbys, “of their ilk,” and “secular humanists.”
    “Never mind that “CHRISTMAS” is a FEDERAL HOLIDAY.”
    Did you find that in the Constitution, Hubert?
    How many times is the word “God” used in the Constitution? Is that a coincidence? They forgot to mention it, perhaps? What a glaring omission!

    “The original intention” of the Founders was that only male landowners vote. They were often slaveholders.

    Slavery was sanctioned by the Constitution. You know, the part of the Constitution that wasn’t read at the convening of the Teabilly House of Representatives?

    What was the “original intent” on internet freedoms? Airports? Electrical utilities? Rapid-fire, large-capacity ammunition clip, assault rifles?

    Is it time to stop referring to original intent, yet?

  15. Suzzie Greenberg 1, September 9, 2012 at 11:58 am

    The judges, both state and federal, didn’t like it that I was representing myself. The AJ said “didn’t I tell you to not come in here without a lawyer?” I said no, you said you knew I was representing myself. According to their handbook,they give deference to pro-se appellants, but that really isn’t the case. They might want to reconsider their approach. Or learn to be a mechanic.

  16. This is just one more of our Civil Rights violation of freedom of religion. My son is involved in a horrific fight with a Federal Judge, his cronies
    ( fraudulent stream of lawyers, and other officers of the court). My son if literately fighting for his life after the Judge orders prohibited him from hiring an attorney but assigning an unpaid attorney who has no experience in such cases. The judge has ordered my son to be under a receivership who is stealing his money literally instead of following the responsibility fo a receivership to protect assets. Conducting Ex Pate meetings to conspire against my son. No Due Process has occurred in this case which has been going on for several years. The judge in open court told my son that he would do what it takes to clean him out of all assets. We have gone to Congress but they are “too busy attending summits”, we have gone to the FBI but there his retaliation for this in the court. We don’t know where to turn. Check out the YouTube video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aSqJLFksZ1I&feature=plcp and a story from the Washington Examiner: http://washingtonexaminer.com/federal-judge-puts-internet-pioneer-in-civil-lockdown/article/272761#.UEy8jJaVrLc

  17. Which prayers does he want in the schools? Hebrew, Muslim, Christian, Moron? If he allows one type of prayer then he should allow all types of prayer. What about the agnostic or atheist non believer? He is opening a big can of worms. Prayer belongs with the individual privately and has no place in the school system, or any other public place. I refused a job offer because they had a prayer meeting every morning.

  18. Hubert,
    Your claim that leftists have turned the Establishment clause on its head is bogus. The mixing of religion into politics is what threatens your religion and mine, if our choice of faith is not the chosen faith by those in power.

  19. BettyKath,

    Sen-sen? Not in Sweden. You seem to have smelled it.
    I did not know the name of the odor, but found it abominable anyway. How old were you and in what circumstances was it encountered?

  20. For All,

    Evolution is random mutation which supplies development of new characteristics. Life and our environment being what they are, most development do not lead to increased viability or reproduction.

    Devolution does not mean acquiring bad characteristics, but rather the production of fewer new characteristics to be tested for viability changes.

    So says the amateur scientist.

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