-Submitted by David Drumm (Nal), Guest Blogger
A press statement issued in the name of Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton, condemns the attacks on the mission in Benghazi. Also include in the statement is:
The United States deplores any intentional effort to denigrate the religious beliefs of others.
What is deplorable is that nowhere in the statement is a commitment to free speech that goes back to the very beginning of our nation.
Our embassy in Cairo issued a statement saying that it “condemns the continuing efforts by misguided individuals to hurt the religious feelings of Muslims.” The Constitution is clear, the First Amendment guarantees the right to religious “free exercise.” There is no right protecting religious feelings from getting hurt. There is no right protecting religious beliefs from denigration.
The freedom of speech in this case involves a movie that ridiculed the prophet Mohammed. While it would be reasonable to condemn the movie based on its fallacious arguments, criticizing the movie because it “hurt the feelings” of Muslims is pandering. Don’t hold your breath waiting for Romney to criticize the State Department for pandering to religious sensibilities.
Others have called the movie an “abuse” of the freedom of speech. The movie is an exercise of the freedom of speech and would only rise to an “abuse” if the rights of others have been violated. Since there is no right protecting your feelings from getting hurt, free speech, that only hurts feelings, is protected.
Debate in the marketplace of ideas leads inevitably to the denigration of ideas. If this denigration is valid, it should not be condemned but exalted. As Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes, Jr. wrote in his dissent in Abrams v. United States:
… the best test of truth is the power of the thought to get itself accepted in the competition of the market, and that truth is the only ground upon which their wishes safely can be carried out. That, at any rate, is the theory of our Constitution.
Those who oppose free speech do so because they fear their own beliefs are incoherent. After a millennia of arguments from the greatest minds, religion is no more coherent today than when it was invented.
H/T: Eugene Volokh, William Saletan.
Dung Ho 1, September 16, 2012 at 11:48 pm
Dung Ho read comment here where Matt Johnson said she posted under other names on this blog. Does this mean that the name that is presently being used is another form of a sock puppet?
Is Matt Johnson the puppeteer?
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Cattle pies are often filled with maggots.
Idealist707,
You have no clue. You play with glue too much it not only stick on shoe, but you.
Someone posted this link re the riots, etc and what Obama should say in a foreign policy speech, whose absence is “deplorable”.
http://drezner.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2012/09/16/a_teachable_moment_on_the_united_states_in_the_middle_east
Amazing how someone so ill-informed or blind to facts can blog on a stable and prominent platform. Drezner is the name.
How would the words “Jesus was a child abuser” go down at the local Baptist church on Sunday? Would they riot and kill? Of course not. They don’t really follow Jesus, do they? He’s not really that important.
Here we have the usual: many factions looking for an excuse to make their point. Even “ultra” soccer fans who take any occasion to vilify police, whether outside the stadium or at embassies.
In Cairo the Salafists came out in numbers until the tear gas came, and then left the field never to return, leaving it to the youth to have fun with. ?????????
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/17/world/middleeast/muslims-rage-over-film-fueled-by-culture-divide.html?_r=1&nl=todaysheadlines&emc=edit_th_20120917
So much fuss and feathers over a video made by a porn director that–I don’t believe–made it out of that shaky rough draft stage (touch and go using those pesky coked-out porn actors dontchaknow). Were there screenings of this in Libya? Other countries? Did I miss that? What I find astonishing is how easily so many are swallowing this whole middle east eruption as being caused by a trailer. Why not a wave of embassy attacks after that asshat minister burned the Korans? Yep. I’m astounded that so many have such wide open mouths to swallow this bs.
Although the mainliners left this place at 8:00 PM yesterday. I’ll bestow a last word from GG’s G column.
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“Beyond the long-term US support for Mubarak, Egyptians would likely find it difficult to reconcile Engel’s claim that the US freed them with the “made in USA” logos on the tear gas cannisters used against them by Mubarak’s security forces; or with Hillary Clinton’s touching 2009 declaration that “I really consider President and Mrs Mubarak to be friends of my family”; or with Obama’s support for Mubarak up until the very last minute when his downfall became inevitable; or with the fact that the Obama administration plan was to engineer the ascension of the loathed, US-loyal torturer Omar Suleiman as Mubarak’s replacement in the name of “stability”.
Given the history of the US in Egypt, both long-term and very recent, it takes an extraordinary degree of self-delusion and propaganda to depict Egyptian anger toward the US as “ironic” on the ground that it was the US who freed them and “allowed” them the right to protest. But that is precisely the theme being propagated by most US media outlets.
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http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/sep/14/egypt-nbc
Feel lied to by the media? If NBC news says this, what is FOX saying? Deception, thy art handmaiden to media.
Puppetmasterwannabe,
Thou shalt have the guts to challenge hypocrites.
Lacking that one should have the guts to name them when warning for them and their followers. Smile.
Teji Malik,
As my custom I race to embrace the man who perceives reality in unknown to us circumstances. Robert Baer embraced two years ago in his book, your perception of our mistake inIraq, displacing Saddam and letting the Shia majority aid with government power (oil ministry) Iran in reaching their many goals
He worked there under many years as a CIA operative in the Kurdish area, leading a team whose errands went to NSC level for indecision (irony intended). For the lack of a horseshoe a horse was lost, etc. In this case, for lack of some tank battalions under Kurd control being sent at the agreed time, the Kurd rebellion was lost. That is detailed in his earlier book. Here he dryly details the power struggle and USA’ mistakes, again in understanding where we fumble.
An almost companion book on how and why the CIA is essentially imcompetent is detailed in Ishmael Jones book on his time with the agency. A rich source. At one point (and probably now) we had only one non-diplomat undercover officer in the area from Burma to the Atlantic, including North Africa. It’s called “Human Factor” CIA dysfunctional structure.
If you read Robert Baer’s book, “The Devil We Know”, please let me know your opinion of it.
Freedom is not handed on a platter. It is achieved by someone shedding their blood,sweat and tears. We tried the former in Iraq without knowing the difference between the Shias and the Sunnis, hence handed Iraq over to Iran and now Iraq is helping Syria and Iran is their BF’sF.
We have been trying the same in Afghanistan and being murdered by the ones whom we handed over the same guns that killed our soldiers for their own freedom.
How many battles within did it take us to savor our freedom? And the battles continue daily.
These countries in the Middle East and in Africa were drawn out by some blind men sitting in some cubicles thousands of miles apart without knowing the cultural differences from one mile to the other.
We applaud those who fought and got their freedom. It will take them many elections, changes, battles and wars within to taste the freedom according to their own cultural values.
Freedom is still being “adjusted” in the Eastern Europe and also in South America after years of repressive regimes.
It may take a lot longer in the Middle East and in Africa, but the fight for freedom will begin, eventually.
It is like a poor man winning a lottery and spending it all foolishly, with the result becoming poorer than even before. This will happen many times over in these countries who have just begun to fight for their freedom. They may draw their own maps of demarcation to feel free. Who knows!
We can only wish them well and help them in reaching their goals, if the needs arise.
Dung Ho read comment here where Matt Johnson said she posted under other names on this blog. Does this mean that the name that is presently being used is another form of a sock puppet?
Is Matt Johnson the puppeteer?
Is she supposed to talk and talk? What she said was clear, and you neglected to mention that she did include a reference to religious tolerance. This was not a statement meant to affirm our beliefs and constitution but to deal with the attack.. There is a time and place for that but this was not it. To mention it means to elongate her remarks into a lecture or seminar.
“I condemn in the strongest terms the attack on our mission in Benghazi today. As we work to secure our personnel and facilities, we have confirmed that one of our State Department officers was killed. We are heartbroken by this terrible loss. Our thoughts and prayers are with his family and those who have suffered in this attack.
This evening, I called Libyan President Magariaf to coordinate additional support to protect Americans in Libya. President Magariaf expressed his condemnation and condolences and pledged his government’s full cooperation.
Some have sought to justify this vicious behavior as a response to inflammatory material posted on the Internet. The United States deplores any intentional effort to denigrate the religious beliefs of others. Our commitment to religious tolerance goes back to the very beginning of our nation. But let me be clear: There is never any justification for violent acts of this kind.
In light of the events of today, the United States government is working with partner countries around the world to protect our personnel, our missions, and American citizens worldwide.”
http://statedept.tumblr.com/page/3
Idealist707,
First commandment,
Thou Shalt Not point out indiscretions to hypocrites. By doing so you risk the wrath of other lesser guardians.
A teachable moment for the United States on its role in the Middle East
Oh, and that the administration’s argument that this has been caused by a single stupid Youtube clip is utter horses**t.
Disparagingly! ??? Skitsamma!
I spoke disparingly of Hillary Rodham Clinton above when I felt she should have waved the first amendment in the faces of Mohammed’s followers.
Here is a Thomas Jefferson quote which just surprised me reading it an hour ago. Not your usual one. And it could have been dedicated to Hillary.
“Let what will be said or done, preserve your sangfroid immovably, and to every obstacle oppose patience, perseverance and soothing language.”
Might take it up as my resolution for future use.
PS I don’t frankly know how any federal high level executive, from the President down, can effectively move the agencies and their bureaucracies from their entrenched positions. But when moved slightly, great waves can be generated. And millions suffer. Including Americans.
Those extremists just might blame me ,because I declare that Muhammad was a child molester and war monger! That superstition is Muhammad’s Fits.
Mormons won’t burn anything but I declare that their superstition should be called Smith’s Fraud! Joseph was a con artist who never had Moroni for a visit and just made up his book out of his own imagination!
And ti;s Christ-insanity!
Or Stockholm. The beautiful slim girls are back from the summer refuges, or boys if you prefer. See them only on the streets. Neither sort hang out at McD. Not holding my breath.
My gracious, how many eager persons wanting to be invited to the party. Perhaps the thing to do.
Myself, I’ve been always embarassed by such moves.
I remember when our USA boss asked the chief delegate for GM at a sales pitch from our side: “Whaddaya think. Was it good”. How EFFing naive. But our leaders were always so, after the best CEO got killed in a car crash in 75. Real rubes. But that is a congenital Swedish trait. Oh yes, you knew that.
So I won’t invite myself. But all are welcome individually to Stockholm.
Somebody said something about getting together and drinking beer. New York. Chicago.
Good correction David!
Gene H. 1, September 15, 2012 at 1:15 pm
“How can Hillary be wrong as a matter of legal fact when she is not asserting any legal fact? You acknowledge in your post that she’s not advocating making anything illegal. ”
Quite simple, Waldo. What Hillary said is simply not so as a matter of Constitutional law.
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We learned long ago that critical thinking in the public realm will be a better dynamic than allowing the government to do that free speech thinking for us.
We need not shy away from our duty as citizens to do the government’s thinking for it, rather than the other way around.
I agree with Gene that our constitutional law needs to be more robust than something that bends or breaks when seemingly tough facts come along.
The facts can come and go as they wish, but the constitutional law must grow stronger and abide.