This video shows a clearly obnoxious and possibly unstable individual who hounds court security with a series of nonsensical statements about not being a person. The court staff shows considerable restraint and professionalism until the man is tasered for trying to get into a court area with a camera.
In the view, the man insists “I don’t have a last name. I don’t have a first name either. I got a name, my name is Robert. You can call me Robert.” He then draws a nonsensical distinction in saying “I’m not a person. You deal here with persons, of which I am not. I’m a man.” When he denies being a citizen of the United States, but admits to being a citizen of Idaho, he then refuses to produce his license on the grounds that “My person does [have one]. I don’t. And I don’t wish to create joinder with you.” He was soon joined with a taser.
I am highly sympathetic to the court security in such a situation and I do not contest the right to keep out cameras. However, I wonder why a taser was used rather than simply restraining the man and possibly arresting him. Once again, the man is clearly rude and seems a bit off. However, we have previously discussed how tasers have become the first response in such situation and used almost casually. This man was clearly in the wrong in trying to get in despite the warning. However, he took one step and was tasered by the officer. These tasers can be deadly in some circumstances and are similar in the legal level of force to the use of a police baton. Where officers (of which there were at least four here) once physically restrained such individuals, they often now use tasers.
What do you think?
Racine County. Try Eastern Oregon.
OS, When I first moved to Wi. there were Posse Comitatus in the northern counties, particularly Shawano County. Most were just “douchbags” but some heavily armed and very dangerous. This “soveriegn citizen” craziness is akin to the Posse kooks.
mkahill 1, September 18, 2012 at 4:52 pm
nick spinelli, Sure, tough guy. You were just trying to get her to back up her opinion. Why were you trying to get her to back up her opinion? And what about your dumber than dumb assumption that Gene H had left because his feelings were hurt. What were you trying to do there? Come on Mr. retired PI, back up your words. This is a kitchen that can get a lot hotter than the streets you skulked trying to repossess cars and get black & whites for divorce attorneys. That’s your frame of reference, wannabe tough guy.
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mkahill,
Spinelli says he lives in the Badger State. My name is in the phone book.
Oh mkahill, I never repo’ed a car, that’s done by repo men, not PI’s.
mkahill, You accuse me of ignorance while you make stereotypical, ignorant comments. What you know about PI’s is obviously what you watched on television in the comfort of your own home. I would add eating bon bons but that would be stereotypical. While there are PI’s who do divorce cases I can tell you, under oath, I never worked a divorce case as a PI. When I started @ the law firm in Chicago I worked product liability, subrogation, personal injury, arson and medical malpractice cases. When I started my own business[Wi.] I worked a lot of workers comp. and personal injury cases. As stated previously, I also did some collections work. As attorneys got to know me I worked higher end subro, product liability and med malpractice cases. I’ve worked on 75 million dollar cases and routinely worked on cases involving 6 and 7 figures. You mkahill are why when I’m sitting on a flight somewhere, or in a bar, I hardly ever tell people I was a PI. I get tired of the stupid, uninformed comments like yours.
Violation of civil rights, excessive police force.
bettykath,
What happens when the bad guys decide it’s o.k. to kill the cops?
Darren, “the number of lawsuits filed against government employees for their use of Tasers is overwhelmingly held to be in favor of the state. ”
Absolutely. Cops get to stop and frisk youth for wwb or wwl. Cops get to shoot unarmed people, get a week or two on a desk and go back to work. Occasionally a trial where the prosecutor does such a p… poor job that the jury doesn’t see the murder. Cops get to beat up “suspects” for existing usually w/o provocation. It’s what’s needed to keep us all in line.
It is the 80/20 rule. Or perhaps the 90/10 rule.
I don’t mean to be rude, but what if a situation develops where nobody cares what your authority is? And you can’t do anything about it?
Gene H. 1, September 18, 2012 at 2:38 pm
Referring to the value of teaching civics:
“[T]he reason that I said that I think it is the most significant problem that we’ve got is that I think that some of the aspects of current American government that people on both sides find frustrating are in part a function of the inability of people to understand how government can and should function. It is a product of civic ignorance.” – Justice Souter
Interesting find, Dredd.
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My jaw hid the keyboard when he said 2/3 of the people in the U.S. do not know that there are three branches of government, and that is a threat to our everything (@1:27).
Well said. The future is what it is.
Captain rtty
You are incorrect in stating a Taser is a deadly weapon. It is not. I also would point out to you that the number of lawsuits filed against government employees for their use of Tasers is overwhelmingly held to be in favor of the state. That is the reality of the numbers, and it is not likely to budge greatly in favor of the plaintiffs in the forseeable future.
I would also venture to say that Professor Turley understands the issue quite clearly and on balance. I would also believe Professor Turley brings topics such as this to the public forum in an effort to foster a debate on the topic which is a healthy exercise in formulation of future policy and understanding on both sides of various topics. Perhaps this might be something you should consider.
In the view, the man insists “I don’t have a last name. I don’t have a first name either. I got a name, my name is Robert. You can call me Robert.” He then draws a nonsensical distinction in saying “I’m not a person. You deal here with persons, of which I am not. I’m a man.” When he denies being a citizen of the United States, but admits to being a citizen of Idaho, he then refuses to produce his license on the grounds that “My person does [have one]. I don’t. And I don’t wish to create joinder with you.” He was soon joined with a taser.
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Why does Idaho keep getting bad press? I was born in Oregon, but I attended Boise State University, and I lived in Boise for about eight years..
nick spinelli, Sure, tough guy. You were just trying to get her to back up her opinion. Why were you trying to get her to back up her opinion? And what about your dumber than dumb assumption that Gene H had left because his feelings were hurt. What were you trying to do there? Come on Mr. retired PI, back up your words. This is a kitchen that can get a lot hotter than the streets you skulked trying to repossess cars and get black & whites for divorce attorneys. That’s your frame of reference, wannabe tough guy.
Gene,
Sorry to hear of your friend and your relative. Hoping the best for them and you.
Anytime officers have to deal with one of the so-called “sovereign citizens” the situation can turn dangerous in an instant. Several officers have died in incidents involving these sovereign citizen types. They tend to be delusional and do not believe they have to follow any law they don’t want to follow. Being armed is common for them, whether it is legal to carry or not. They do not believe in getting concealed carry permits, since the laws of the US do not apply to them and courts have no jurisdiction over them. Due to the reality of what is known about them from painful past experience, officers have to expect the worst. And sometimes get it.
As for Ratty, with an attitude toward law enforcement officers such as you display here, I would not be surprised if you get rousted once in a while. Your alligator mouth tends to overload your hummingbird a$$.
Once again, citizen camera = costumed official + assault.
JT says something to the effect that a taser is the equivalent of use of force as a police baton. Where have you been the past ten years? A taser is a deadly weapon. Get out of the Ivory Tower and take a shower! If you believe that JT then bring your mom down for a demonstration– on her while you watch. Get a brain.
Gene,
You are a good friend and caregiver.
I do want to take exception that this guy needed to be tazed. I think he needed to be taken into custody since he refused the orders of the bailiff, but with the camera in his hands, it was not too likely that he was going to be able to batter(to use his words) the bailiffs.
They could have diffused the situation without the use of a Tazer.
OS,
I have felt the baton and the riot stick in May of 1970 and I can attest that they hurt like hell.
nick, “Your derision for those bailiffs was palpable.”
hmmm. Four big guys being confronted with a guy who’s talking gibberish in their opinion. He moves to go where they don’t what him to. They block him. He talks some more. TASER.
Why couldn’t they put the cuffs on him without the taser? If four guys can’t arrest one, they don’t belong on the job. Whatever the charge, it existed before the taser.
I don’t like tasers. They kill and they are being used when less force will do the job. Someone said they replace the baton. Would hitting the guy with a baton have been justified?
Yeh, the tough guy has a new toy and he likes using it.