Submitted by: Mike Spindell, guest blogger
In my Social Work career I spent 37 years working primarily with people in poverty, whether from Race, ethnicity, economic situations, criminal history and/or addiction. In my Psychotherapy practice (part time) my patients were middle to upper class economically and yet as the years have passed my memory of them has faded. Still remaining though, burned into my memory, are the lives of those I met who lived in poverty. We see in this current Presidential election a sharp contrast between the philosophies of the two candidates. One believing in lowering peoples expectations for and the receipt of, what he deems “entitlements”. The other who defends what he calls self-funded programs and championing the Federal Government’s intervention to make health care more accessible. There is, however, one economic/social area where both candidates fully agree and this agreement represents exactly what is wrong with our country.
Mitt Romney and Barack Obama, by their words and deeds, both believe fervently in the notion of the “American Dream”. If we look at the history of their lives we can understand how from their perspective, their lives have typified the “America Dream”. Romney was born wealthy, went to the best schools and came from a family that was highly prominent in his community. Obama, though born the child of an unwed mother, had the benefit of her intelligence, in addition to Maternal Grandparents who were relatively well to do. Their lives, though having different arcs, led them both to the point where they are competing for the highest office in the land. Neither man is lying when they extol America as the world’s shining light of opportunity for all, because their own lives bear that out. To me the problem is that reality shows that they are wrong in their belief and in their clinging to the myth of the “American Dream”, they ignore the most important issue of our time, American inequality of opportunity.
This week I read an article by Prof. James Karabel, of the UC Berkeley. Its title was: Grand Illusion: Mobility, Equality and the American Dream. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jerome-karabel/grand-illusion-mobility-inequality-and-the-american-dream_b_1933238.html I believe my many years working both on the front lines of poverty and as an executive in most areas of Social Services I qualify too as an expert on poverty and its scarring effect on people. Then too in my experiences as a psychotherapist I’ve learned something about the human psyche and how it can be negatively affected. So in my own mind at least I believe that I am enough of an expert to state categorically that the professor knows what he is talking about and that I completely agree with him. Professor Karabel writes:
“[T]his cherished view of America is now a myth. The reality is in fact quite the opposite: Family origins matter more in the United States in determining where one ends up in life compared to other wealthy democratic countries. This is a recent development. Studies of social mobility as far back as the 1950s and 1960s showed that rates of movement in the United States were generally comparable to other developed countries. This finding itself challenged the longstanding image of America as exceptionally open, but it is a far cry from today, when the United States rates at or near the bottom in comparative studies of social mobility.
To take just two examples, a study by Jo Blanden and colleagues at the London School of Economics found that a father’s income was a better predictor of a son’s income in the United States than in seven other countries, including Germany, Canada, and the United Kingdom. And a review article by Miles Corak at the University of Ottawa, based on 50 studies of nine countries, found the United States tied with the United Kingdom as having the least social mobility, trailing not only Norway and Denmark but France, Germany, and Canada.”
There are many studies that back Professor Karabel’s thesis. One such from the moderate Pew Research Center states the following in its summary of findings regarding the vitality of the “American Dream”. http://www.pewstates.org/research/reports/pursuing-the-american-dream-85899403228
“ Those born at the top and bottom of the income ladder are likely to stay there as adults. More than 40 percent of Americans raised in the bottom quintile of the family income ladder remain stuck there as adults, and 70 percent remain below the middle.
African Americans are more likely to be stuck at the bottom and fall from the middle of the economic ladder across a generation.
The renowned Brookings Institution, which is economically “Centrist” also, did a study on upward mobility in America, which was intertwined with how the reality affected the “American Dream” meme. In it they examined all sources including the Pew Report cited above. Among the Brookings conclusions were:
“What is clear is that in at least one regard American mobility is exceptional: not in terms of downward mobility from the middle or from the top, and not in terms of upward mobility from the middle — rather, where we stand out is in our limited upward mobility from the bottom. And in particular, it’s American men who fare worse than their counterparts in other countries.[16] One study compared the United States with Denmark, Norway, Sweden, Finland, and the United Kingdom. It found that in each country, whether looking at sons or at daughters, 23 to 30 percent of children whose fathers were in the bottom fifth of earnings remained in the bottom fifth themselves as adults — except in the United States, where 42 percent of sons remained there.” http://www.brookings.edu/research/articles/2011/11/09-economic-mobility-winship
A New York Times article in January 2012 by Jason DeParle titled: “Harder for Americans to Rise from Lower Rungs” examined the research available and also noted that even many o the Right, like Rick Santorum, were beginning to express concern for this American decline of “Upward Mobility”:
“Benjamin Franklin did it. Henry Ford did it. And American life is built on the faith that others can do it, too: rise from humble origins to economic heights. “Movin’ on up,” George Jefferson-style, is not only a sitcom song but a civil religion. But many researchers have reached a conclusion that turns conventional wisdom on its head: Americans enjoy less economic mobility than their peers in Canada and much of Western Europe. The mobility gap has been widely discussed in academic circles, but a sour season of mass unemployment and street protests has moved the discussion toward center stage.”
“One reason for the mobility gap may be the depth of American poverty, which leaves poor children starting especially far behind. Another may be the unusually large premiums that American employers pay for college degrees. Since children generally follow their parents’ educational trajectory, that premium increases the importance of family background and stymies people with less schooling.
At least five large studies in recent years have found the United States to be less mobile than comparable nations. A project led by Markus Jantti, an economist at a Swedish university, found that 42 percent of American men raised in the bottom fifth of incomes stay there as adults. That shows a level of persistent disadvantage much higher than in Denmark (25 percent) and Britain (30 percent) — a country famous for its class constraints. Meanwhile, just 8 percent of American men at the bottom rose to the top fifth. That compares with 12 percent of the British and 14 percent of the Danes.” http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/05/us/harder-for-americans-to-rise-from-lower-rungs.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0
At the end of this piece I’ll offer more proof and studies on the desperate state of the “American Dream”, but I think what I’ve presented so far makes the case that the “American Dream” has become more myth than reality. Now I’d like to examine what I think about all of this and why it is mostly absent from the discussions of the issues in this coming election.
Thinking about the breadth of American History and the fact that it is intertwined with racial, ethnic and economic strife throughout, it is amazing that this country, made up of so many ethnicities and races, has been as stable as it has been when compared to other industrialized nations. I contend that this is because a vast majority of the population has bought into the myth of the “American Dream”. This myth where every child can grow up to be famous, rich and President has lowered the discontent of those born on, or near the bottom and filled them with the demonstrably false presence that rising from a lower caste social state can be done only if they try harder. While on the anecdotal level this is true in that many instances can be found of the “rags to riches” story, on the statistical level the truth is that it is a very rare occurrence. As the studies show if you are born at, or near the bottom you tend to remain there.
When “rags to riches” stories occur it is simply because a given individual has been born with superior abilities and/or has had extraordinary luck. As I have mentioned many times on the Turley blog, the Horatio Alger http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horatio_Alger,_Jr. the 19th Century novelist, provided much propaganda for the concept of the “American Dream”, during America’s “Gilded Age” http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Gilded_Age , the great industrial and economic spurt that followed the Civil War and lasted until the end of the 19th Century. Alger’s books contained one overarching theme: The poor boy that with hard work and “pluck” rose from abject poverty to enormous wealth. The fallacy was that in every one of his many novels, the “poor boy” was taken in hand by a wealthy gentleman, who helped his rise and even offered his daughter’s hand in marriage. Nevertheless, to a population made up of the rural poor moving from farms to factory work and of immigrants freeing the chains of European and Asian autocracy, these books had a tremendous influence on their aspirations.
We must understand that after the Civil War killed 600,000 and maimed so many more there were plenty of jobs available during this country’s rise into the Industrial Revolution. Also comparatively at that time the living conditions for most in other countries were characterized by rigid class systems and oppressive governance enforcing the class distinctions. As the 19th Century drew to a close the “American Dream” became entwined in the fabric of American mythology and simultaneously fostered the concept of “American Exceptionalism” that was the main foreign policy feature of “Progressivism”
At this point the “Right” and the “Left” of this country established their main point of agreement, which has lasted until this day. Both sides of the political spectrum accepted the idea that America was a shining land of opportunity for all and exceptional in its system. By both sides of course I’m talking about almost all of the politicians in both parties, in the two party system, which became rigid after Teddy Roosevelt’s “Bull Moose Party” run in 1908. This is ot to say that there weren’t many dissidents to the “American Dream” meme, but those dissidents were marginalized in the discussion by the press and the developing media.
So here we are today with evidence that the “American Dream” is in shambles and yet the Presidential Candidates and the majority of people supporting both parties still mouth the myth of America as the land of the greatest opportunity for all. This is destructive, not only because it isn’t rue, but because it prevents any real discussion of the problems we face in this country if we are to begin to return to its purported ideals of opportunity for all. How many of you reading this can say that your own lives were not touched by privilege of some sort? The “American Dream” is in my opinion a chimerical myth, with little substance behind it. Rising from importune circumstance though has always been the lot of humanity, though in our distant past it did depend initially on brawn and/or brains. What we are seeing in America today is the diminution of opportunity and the collapse of our once robust middle class. That as a nation we are so inculcated with this myths that even if a politician had the temerity to tell the truth about the eroding “American Dream” she/he would find their career buried under opprobrium.
I write this because of my anger at the continuing failure of this country to address the real problems endemic in preventing our society from being one of relatively equal opportunity for all. “All men are created equal” has never meant that there aren’t some among us who have greater ability than others. To me it has always meant that most people should at least have a fairly equal chance to achieve their aspirations dependent on their innate abilities. Is that too much to ask?
Submitted by: Mike Spindell, guest blogger
NOTE: The picture used up front is of Horatio Alger, Jr. Those who have read my writing here will see that this is a continuing concern of mine and consists of much of what I have written. I would also recommend Gene Howington’s Propaganda series as providing a view of how this issue continues to be hidden from our political debate. Some links backing my premise:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/03/17/social-immobility-climbin_n_501788.html
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/howard-steven-friedman/class-mobility_b_1676931.html
http://www.npr.org/2012/05/29/153918852/on-the-economic-ladder-rungs-move-further-apart
http://jonathanturley.org/?s=Gene+Howington
http://jonathanturley.org/2012/09/30/portents-of-the-new-feudalism/
http://jonathanturley.org/2012/09/29/the-nfl-and-whats-wrong-with-america/
http://jonathanturley.org/2012/07/07/mythology-and-the-new-feudalism/
http://jonathanturley.org/2012/03/10/what-motivates-the-1/
http://jonathanturley.org/2012/01/07/americas-transcendent-issue/
http://jonathanturley.org/2011/12/18/forget-wall-street-occupy-corporate-boardrooms/
http://jonathanturley.org/2011/08/20/jobless-in-georgia/
MikeS and Juris,
There I go again, going over the top and stepping on toes. Not gonna do the victim bit and explain why you should understand and forgive me.
For you own sakes, take what I say as just this—a guy trying to say something and not always with any skill, but not with ill-will. YOU can decide how you want to take my words, provocative yes, or aggressive and spiteful.
I exaggerated and used the death metaphor to describe the response to a magnificent and fantastically documented presentation of why we cling to our myths and comfort ourselves instead of facing reality.
I expected this one to go up in the 1,000s comments class. I have only read you a short time
and most always I think that now MikeS has beaten his earlier record, not in numbers but it getting to the heart of things.
And this time, enthusiastic as I am inclined to be, this one was IT again. The message on the end of the lance was simple. Face up to that they OWN you.
(MY words! and summation)
But instead you took my words as diminishing the value of the response. My disappointment was in the response not in you or what you’d accomplished.
You show so many times and ways here the value of enclosing hard messages in soft packages. And I still, obviously, have much left to learn there.
Yes, there are many reasons, including the one of “What’s new today MikeS? Oh, same old? Yeah, nice. See you late.”
But thet is the lotus-eaters problem, not yours.
You are not chicken little. The sky is falling, and the hard facts show it. Your ref list shows it.
We are all hugging our Teddy Bears, including Juris, and me. I literally hug my pillow every night to relax and sleep. What do you hug, I say to all here? Your belief in our myths? Go to it, I do too. OK?
Juris, I understand you and your position and only referred to you (not challenging directly), and even that was a mistake, I realize, by putting my words in your mouth. But it was an acknowledgement that your position was worth respect when I used your name. You know, giving credit where credit is due.
But you went on to defend your hopes. Go to it. Fine. No hope equals no life spark. But don’t waste your energies looking for someone like me (it is all in YOUR mind!!!) to get energized over.
We all hope. Just as you do. That is what gives MikeS (plus his kids and grandchildren) the strength to keep trying to awake us. And you to be a family father.
And it is why, I have joined the team, and beat on my tin drum. Not alsways nice to hear, but hope it will have some effect. Let us work together. The union was a poor instrument, but it did have effect. So what else can we do TOGETHER to improve our chances. Being born in America is not enough anymore. I thought it was in ’59 when I got my degree.
There are so many ways we are being manipulated. Just thought now of Fact ONE: the constant “today’s bad news” wears us out. That is simple, and effective. Is it a conscious tactic?
In simpler, not connected times, the world was far off, especially for us in the USA. And when the drugstore failed and closed, that was our village crisis. Now we got big skit with our breakfast, lunch and supper EVERY DAY.
Do your cortisol and adrenalin glands get tired? Mine do.
Keep your dreams, don’t let old men like me take them away from you. YOU need them to meet the daily constant challenges which you face as a family father. But keep an eye open and give a dime to the campaign. I say to myself, MAYBE Obama is gonna help us. That’s my dream.
Thanks to both of you for a useful lesson. As I have excused myself with before, I did not understand the ones I got before in life. Wish me luck now.
“There I go again, going over the top and stepping on toes.”
ID707,
There is nothing for me to forgive since you didn’t step on my toes. What you said was truthful and valid. I welcomed your comments, because they provided me with an opportunity to explain myself and because I do wonder at times at the seeming lack of comments and why that might be. The two guest blogs that I am proudest of received 47 and 33 comments respectively.
http://jonathanturley.org/2012/03/17/a-real-history-of-the-last-sixty-two-years/
http://jonathanturley.org/2012/01/21/the-authoritarians-a-book-review-and-book/
This has happened too, to all of the other guest bloggers and with the quality of their work, it at times gives me pause to wonder why. Were we in competition to see who could stir up the most reaction I’m sure we could each hit upon a formula for doing just that, but that is not what this is about. If the measure of popularity were the amount of comments then Gene Howington wins hands down with “What Makes a Good Law, What Makes a Bad Law”.
That was and excellent and thoughtful article (I’d link to it but I used up my two links) that received over two thousand comments on the thread. The truth is though that while Gene made some excellent points, worth discussing, almost two thirds of the comments were done by Tony C. and others as he battled a combination of “free marketeer” Randists and ultra conservatives trying to hijack the thread with their philosophy. He vanquished all comers with his logic and arguments, but in essence the discussion ran far afield from Gene’s original question and Tony wouldn’t let the misinformation of the digressions stand.
Perhaps many readers don’t realize the benefit Jonathan Turley has bestowed upon us guest bloggers. He gave us freedom to choose our own topics and has never tried to rein in what we choose to write about. It is a privilege for us to be trusted as we are. For my own sake, but I think the others feel the same, this has been a great blessing for me. In a sense it has given me another career as a “writer” who has been “published” at least on the Internet, at my rather advanced age. Because of our respect and affection for the Professor we all try to do him credit in our writing by being accurate, interesting, pertinent and civil.
My response to you wasn’t in umbrage, but in relief to have the opportunity to address something I’ve thought about for awhile. I suppose I could try to dredge up interest by finding something that would cause inordinate controversy, but if I approached my guest blogging in that manner I would be doing a disservice to Jonathan Turley and to the people who read his blog.
keep tilting Mike
Mike S.
“As to defining it my definition is not only the one that was prevalent as I was growing up, but also remember Jim Crow existed in this country officially until I was 20 and so people of color were also given to understand that growing up to be President wasn’t in their sights.”
To put my perspective in context, I was born in 1980 and was fortunate enough to be raised in a middle class family. While we struggled financially when I was young, it was nothing compared to the true poor and by the time I was in high school, I had it pretty good. I did not have anywhere near the struggles you mention having above, and kudos to you for overcoming so much. Not to downplay Jim Crow, but I never seriously thought it was possible for me to be president and would bet that those who did think it was a real possibility, at least in my public school, were few.
“Those born at the top and bottom of the income ladder are likely to stay there as adults. More than 40 percent of Americans raised in the bottom quintile of the family income ladder remain stuck there as adults, and 70 percent remain below the middle.”
If I am reading this correctly (and please let me know if I am not), 30% make it above the middle? If so, I find that encouraging and quite impressive. I honestly thought it would be like 5%.
I, too, worry about funding my child’s education. But I also find it encouraging that there is at least a seed planted regarding more sources for free education (ID 707’s post about Khan Academy is one great source and Coursera.org is outstanding source for free quality higher education). If I only had the time… Hopefully those or similar other sources will be around when I retire.
Based on your post above, you have accomplished the American Dream in my book. in 20 years, I hope that I am that fortunate enough to speak of my children as you do yours and to be blessed with grandchildren.
ID 707, I did not state or intend to imply that Mike S was “out of line” as you put it, merely that my take was different than his on the concept of the American Dream.
“Juris says if he works hard, and if his young kids do too, then he can expect to and they can to expect to be comfortable.
Now that is a modest dream and alright. But the worst is that in reality he and his kids won’t have it nearly as good as he has now. Is he and many others of us refusing to look at the reality of what we are facing? ”
I think it a bit absurd that you claim to know that my kids won’t have it as good as I have it now. I can agree that maybe, generally speaking, my kids’ generation won’t be as well off as their parents’ generation, which maybe was what you were getting at. That aside, similar to the belief that housing prices will always rise, I find a constant rise in the standard of living of consecutive generations equally unrealistic.
Will a smaller house, economical car, and no cable television really mean the sky is falling? I understand that at some point there is a time to panic, but I am not so certain that the time is in the foreseeable future. We are headed in the wrong direction and is a cause for concern, I agree, but is it really that bad? I think many in my generation did have it too good, and either never realized it or took it for granted.
Mike S.,
As a Father of 4 grown children and 2 grandsons, I enjoyed your last comment. I too feel that my greatest achievement is helping raising 4 good kids into good adults and hopefully have a hand in helping raising my grandsons.
Dredd,
Do you think this blog thread, Amerian dream vs reality, died because it is too depressing, too obviously true or ????. It did come out on a Saturday social night, not the best time to be serious is it?
Friday was somewhat lively, and today is mostly duhhhh.
I was reading Juris and his take above, that looking to be Prez is out of line by MikeS. But as I see it, that was a hyperbolic attention getter, and was once a standard politician line of BS.
Juris says if he works hard, and if his young kids do too, then he can expect to and they can to expect to be comfortable.
Now that is a modest dream and alright. But the worst is that in reality he and his kids won’t have it nearly as good as he has now. Is he and many others of us refusing to look at the reality of what we are facing?
OT maybe, but some are speculating that Obama has lost it due to he now realizes that he is not steering the ship of state, that “they” are, and he has really nothing to say or contribute—-no matter how hard he tries. (This is my idea.) Amd that assumes that he has not lost it for many other possible reasons.
You should read Russ Baker’s Bush book. Just started again with it, and when Dubja comes on stage then you are wondering how this man could have become Prez.
GW lost his flying nerves, got taken off flight status, was shown to the door, and went looking for a retreat ANG a post to over-winter the Vietnam war and the rest of his seven year obligation.
And this is the ass who comes, supposedly, flying back seat in a carrier fighterplane to pose and declare “Mission accomplished”. And that is only 1/10000000000000-th of what that family has done. They and the crony list “OWN” this country.
Sorry for the rant. I’m going back to read more soon. Answer if you like. Or send me your rant in return. Always informative.
“Dredd, Do you think this blog thread, Amerian dream vs reality, died because it is too depressing, too obviously true or ????.”
ID707,
I’m not sure that 60 comments is death, but there could be a distinct lack of debate because of all the reasons you cite. Then to, sometimes I portentously state the obvious ad people are too kind to call me on it. I would like to believe that the lack of debate is because most here agree with the analysis.
I the end though, because it is obvious, there is a certain belief of mine which I think it important to get across, even if no one hears. I believe that this country and the world are heading to complete corporate dominance in a feudalistic agenda that will make class distinction and class privilege the norm everywhere. The least I can do is speak out against it and try to get people to see the dangers they are facing. If they fail to see it around them, then they are prey to the elite. That is why I use my own name and that is why I keep harping on it. I feel compelled to take a stand against it, even as if I come across as merely a modern day Don Quixote.
idealist707 1, October 8, 2012 at 2:06 pm
Dredd,
Thands for Gary Hart. I have no clue who is good to read.
Can’t agree with him on this:
“Myths which have no basis in truth, or which do not operate as metaphors for religious truth, eventually fade away with the passing of those who perpetuate them and in the face of reality and fact”
Some have
persisted for centuries, millenia, and they are not religious, but then I can’t do the Bible.
==============================================
Good points.
The 2012 update by this group supplies data on reduced economic
mobility.
http://stateofworkingamerica.org/
Mike S, thanks for this thoughtful post. A few thoughts/questions of my own:
Your post and others’ comments seem to assume that we all agree on the definition of the “American Dream.” You indirectly define it as the notion that “every child can grow up to be famous, rich and President.” I tend to define it more as, “if you work hard and stay persistent, you just may be able to make it in this country.” “Make it” meaning live comfortably.
Isn’t your “definition” part of the problem? Sort of like the saying “you can be whatever you want when you grow up.” Being a somewhat new parent (25 months) and with another on the way (Oct 16), I cringe when I think of this as I think nothing is more further from the truth. IMHO, telling a child this is doing a disservice to the child. It’s a tough world out there.
I have been fortunate enough to, as you have, live comfortably without luxury, which is really all that I ask. Admittedly, I must often remind myself of this when I catch myself b*tching about how bad things are and where they are headed. This was based in large part on my hard work (or at least I like to believe that is).
I am not so sure that Romney and Obama actually “believe” in the American Dream concept, even though they act as they do.
Did the American Dream ever exist? Maybe it has always been a myth.
“I am not so sure that Romney and Obama actually “believe” in the American Dream concept, even though they act as they do. Did the American Dream ever exist? Maybe it has always been a myth.”
Juris,
No matter how you define the “American Dream” your sentences above get to the heart of what I was trying to convey. As to defining it my definition is not only the one that was prevalent as I was growing up, but also remember Jim Crow existed in this country officially until I was 20 and so people of color were also given to understand that growing up to be President wasn’t in their sights.
“I tend to define it more as, “if you work hard and stay persistent, you just may be able to make it in this country.” “Make it” meaning live comfortably.”
Even by your standards though “living comfortably” seems to be escaping most people:
As I had quoted above:
“ Those born at the top and bottom of the income ladder are likely to stay there as adults. More than 40 percent of Americans raised in the bottom quintile of the family income ladder remain stuck there as adults, and 70 percent remain below the middle.
African Americans are more likely to be stuck at the bottom and fall from the middle of the economic ladder across a generation.”
As a parent of young children you and I as a grandfather of 3, have to be concerned about this. My children are grown and are doing well, but I know how hard it is in life to take a career for granted, when the twists of the economy are so volatile. At least my kids have gotten their higher education and have good jobs where they are valued. I’m still paying for my youngest child’s education, which was a commitment I made to both my children. You will have that to worry about in the future as well as ensuring that when the times comes for school they will have good opportunities. I don’t envy you the task, knowing how hard it was for my wife and I. The upside is that I can truthfully say, from my personal needs, that the best thing I’ve done in this life is having the experience of raising children I adore and now being blessed with wonderful grandchildren.
Dredd,
Thands for Gary Hart. I have no clue who is good to read.
Can’t agree with him on this:
“Myths which have no basis in truth, or which do not operate as metaphors for religious truth, eventually fade away with the passing of those who perpetuate them and in the face of reality and fact”
Some have
persisted for centuries, millenia, and they are not religious, but then I can’t do the Bible.
And it was nice to be reminded of Joseph Campbell, perhaps the most remarkable man I have ever seen.
He showed me that mankind could be seen with other eyes and POV. The commonality across the world was not the point to me, rather how much we are affected by our myths. Saw part only of his series “Power of Myth”.
Hart makes (his?) the point that it is comfortable to let myths and preconceptions decide.
Just as I wrote on the fact that prejudices as a phenominon are necessary, because we don’t have time or energy to investigate and judge each and every event.
Prejudice has unfortunately become a general pejorative, instead of a necessary part of life.
And when they become a social and ethical evil then they must be fought, whatever color or religion is involved, plus the usual ones mentioned in the laws and discussions.
As the friend of a friend pointed out, the black did not have to judge the white individual’s intention. He knew that when push came to shove that whitey would stick it to him. Prejudice? Yeah, a useful one.
I followed my own advice and saw some videos at the Khan Academy (.org).
My favo subject: Astronomy/cosmology.
It begins with what formed our solar system, quickly to our earth’s formation 4.5Ga ago, and I bypass the rest to get to us: Homo sapiens sapiens as we are labled.
How long have we been around? Guess? 200,000 years.
Not much huh? How long since the CE (Christ AD/Common Era)? 2,000 years.
So our modern history, if I call it that, is only one part in a hundred of our species existence. And from hunter-gatherers to cell users in 10,000 years. Wow. We’ve gone a long ways in ten percent of our time.
Of course some could say, what took us so long. How long do you need using the same old spear, huh?
I wonder what the dinosaurs did to pass the time?
They were wiped out by a meteorits.
What’s gonna happen to us?
I’m predicting our heads will either explode, or we will develop two heads. One for ads, and one for government lies. The rest of the stuff though? The rainforests, whales, Disneyworld?
We won’t need to know about the rest, that is subsumed for our purposes in the other sets.
“BTW”, says your greatgreat grandchild with only one head to his buddy; “Remember when you could see the sun.”
“Yeah, when you didn’t have to carry these 5 pound person coolers, and wear superplastic coveralls. Nice wasn’t it.”, “They’re promising a lighter unit next year.”, “Say, do you remember old New York City?, “Do I? I remember when half of Florida went underwater. No great loss said some!”……….???
idealist707 1, October 8, 2012 at 4:15 am
Not only Americans have dreams…..
=====================================
Indeed, I was just reading a post by Gary Hart, so I thought I would back you up and at the same time back up Mike S:
(HuffPo). Also Eddie mentioned Carlin who reminded us that to dream one type of dream we must first be asleep.
Now Gary Hart reminds us that when we wake up we can still use those dreams to extend the meaning of a dream, but sometimes reality is difficult enough without injecting dreams into it.
Dredd,
Thank you for that Gary Hart quote, because as you know Campbell has been a great influence on me and what I write here.
Not only Americans have dreams…..!
My morning help was a cousin to Lisa, who is working evenings instead. They are both Tutsis from Burundi-Rwanda, of the famous genocide of 800,000 victims.
She mentioned the ambitious program that the President is driving, called the 2020 program to achieve the same goals as Singapore.
She mentioned with pride the President’s kicking out of the French army, and the reduced influence of the colóns. She herself speaks fluent English and French, and probably several other languages.
They are putting their energies in becoming a computer programming nation. She feels it is the most progressive nation in East Africa.
What did I say about middle class jobs leaving us because we are too expensive in corporation’s eyes?
In 2020 we will see. BTW, it is warmed by the sun, but cooled by the high altitude. Join the immigrants.
For those who would be encouraged, in spite of it all, here is a serendipitous find from the net. After checking out Vi Hart at Wikipedia, there came a mention of the Khan Academy.
Check it out at Wikipedia, or go directly now:
http://www.khanacademy.org/
“Accelerated learning for all”
non-commercial.
has a new computer science course.
MikeS,
“…..but the being alone part gives us the ability to love ourselves if we dare.”
When I summmrize each day, I often conclude that I am all that I have, so what should I do with that.
You above and Rabbi Hillel have mentioned some things that I reflect over.
The “American Dream” is different for everyone. In America, anyone can do or achieve whatever he/she has set out to do with themselves. So, early on, one develops his own “Dream,” and then starts pursuing it. Somewhere along the line, one “knows” if he has achieved it, etcetera. Most get there, if you have the desire and resolution; some don’t. Just the way life is.
idealist707 1, October 7, 2012 at 3:00 pm
Dredd,
“,,,,many Opec countries continued to increase their oil reserves, without announcing any new discoveries, and, all that while producing significant amounts of oil.”
Thanks for bringing it up again.
===================================
OPEC nations kept sending in increasing numbers even though there were no new fields to support the numbers, and they were taking more and more out of existing fields.
The math did not add up.
So the study group of experts calculated as much as 70% excessive estimates.
This is a very serious threat to national security for the U.S. (the “American Dream”) and other nations, indeed, the world.
I say this because sudden increases in the price of oil as a result of finding out, or running up against the wall of no more oil on down the road, portend catastrophic results.
Like climate change, these things are prone to be denied by the insecure who give governments more time to do nothing.
Heads up!
Dredd,
“,,,,many Opec countries continued to increase their oil reserves, without announcing any new discoveries, and, all that while producing significant amounts of oil.”
Thanks for bringing it up again.
Why? We have sometimes here speculated on what the next crisis which will enable the next major steps in the change of our world. The “Citizen Act” to follow the NDAA and the Patriot Act.
War with Iran? But too small unless nuclear war breaks out.
The until now hidden oil crisis is my bet, since you mentioned it a couple of days ago.
What happens when that panic breaks out. It is easy for the “planners” to develop scenarios, find key leverage points where their action is needed, etc etc.
When? I’d say soon. Maybe one of the first things facing the President, whichever one it is. A highly visual symbol will be etched into our mindseye a la WTC. A national crisis will be declared by the President, activating his special powers. and the UN Security Council will meet to no effect. What then, I have no idea?
Will he be assisted as Obama was by Wall Street and the banks, the CD people,etc.? You betcha.
Will we hava any choice? Nope.
Will the world have a choice? Nope.
Is there any hope? Nope. We lost that in reality when the articles of confederation were signed.
Do you know how much the electronic funds floating in various forms around the net exceed the GDP of the world’s countries? By a factor of several million.
It hss to be kept in motion or the whole will collapse. What is the max times that deposits of cash can be loaned out in the USA? 20 times?
Multiply that by one thousand and you get a little idea on the scale of “electronic” money buzzing around.
Check out the crazy economist at RT. He is enlightening.
MikeS,
re comments to Darren.
I was the only one of the management trainee group of 25 who tooked the bus to NYC from NC. I did not think it special, but my classmates did. No, matter I soon established myself as an outsider. And my fate has gone on from there, the man who could not see reality, because he was blinded in his crib.
Sniff, boo-hoo. Not at all. Just a late realization.
I am slowly being taught that I am self-centered by my gestalt shrink. He shows me from time to time to see if the idea will take hold in me.
My inherent belief is that whatever happens in a personal transaction is dependent on my only. Not due to a thousand other possible factors in the other persons life.
I am still struggling with it.
As for deism, I can’t think of one who could be so detached as to create creatures who love and care for each other, but itself be uncaring.
The oneness and the aloneness of being an individual is part of existence. And a deity who could look upon me and be concerned with me is hard to believe in.
But I do feel that I have been blessed, but also cursed, contradictory is it may seem.
“But I do feel that I have been blessed, but also cursed, contradictory is it may seem.”
ID707,
Not contradictory at all, life is always bittersweet for everyone but psychopaths. As for a Deity that would create us with the nature that in the end we are alone, nevertheless it gave us the capacity to love and empathize, but the being alone part gives us the ability to love ourselves if we dare.
Darren Smith,
I appreciate your struggles. But no given quantum effect is ever given except in a statistical sense.
Pre-determinism does not exist in nature. It was once claimed by those calling themselves philosophers and scientists to be valid at the macrolevel, and then the quantum level began to be examined.
Whether god plays at dice or not is still up for discussion. That is to say, do strict laws apply to each and every quantum process? No, simply. We can predict within the boundaries you defined vv models, computing power and data input give certain outcomes. But far from allis possible for the limitations you gave.
Does that mean that God can compute it all or has set an immutable machine going which we can not effect by free will?
No, I think not. Just as I fully feel that what I decide to do is up to my free will. But I do not have the resources of whatever class and type needed to achieve all I wish.
And neither does the human race have the resources.
But free will is available to all.