The video below shows a disturbing scene where a Cleveland municipal bus driver decked an obnoxious female passenger after a loud and profane shouting match. It is equally disturbing to hear the laughing of some of the other passengers on the bus — a shocking example of a moral abyss in our society.
The 22-year veteran of the Regional Transit Authority has been suspended. He is shown saying that “She want to be a man, I’m gonna treat you like a man” after decking her. This of course misses the point that you cannot deck men or women for verbal abuse on a city bus.
The question is the liability for the city. The driver was clearly working at the time for purposes of respondeat superior. However, is this a “frolic or a detour” from this scope of employment? Drivers are trained not to get involved in fights, but to call police. Yet, the driver was acting to “keep order” on the bus and could be seen as performing a task related to this job, even if it was done in violation of city guidelines. Even if vicarious liability is not applicable, there is straight negligence in firing or training or supervision that could be alleged. We often see these cases with security staff who use excessive force but a bus driver is not a security personnel position.
As for the driver, this is clearly assault and battery under torts as well as a potentially criminal act. Either way, the suspension is a predictable move as would eventual termination.
[WARNING: The video is peppered with curse words and racial slurs.]
Warning the video below shows violence and includes graphic and racist elements:
Source: Washington Post
“Maybe it’s because everyone seems so hell bent on ignoring that the bus driver and the woman were BOTH acting badly, to the same degree, yet somehow, for some reason… it’s her fault.
There’s a clear double standard here, the woman is horrible for yelling at the bus driver, yet he is being “patient” because he didn’t hit her first.”
No they were not BOTH acting badly to the same degree. She HIT him first.
The only double standard here is that shown by people who seem to think that it’s okay for a woman to physically assault a man and not think that she is going to be resisted.
The woman lost control of herself and started a physical confrontation. If it were a woman bus driver defending herself against an aggressive male customer or the same male bus driver defending himself against another male, I don’t think that some of the people who are defending the woman in this case would have a problem with the bus driver’s actions.
In addition we have a young person starting a fight with a senior citizen. Whatever happened to respect for elders?
As far as I know the laws about self-defense and assault apply equally to both genders. Bottom line, don’t put your hands on people, no matter what your gender is.
I’ll try one more time. We didn’t see the beginning of the verbal exchange. It may very well be that the bus driver started it with a nasty crack and the woman chose not to ignore it. (you, know, like a submissive good girl should) Or she could have started it. (and no real man would let a woman mouth off at him). We DON’T KNOW, But that’s when the altercation started.
Both were fully engaged in the verbal tit for tat. I didn’t hear anything from him, the guy in charge of the bus, that would deescalate the situation. In fact, the last thing said before she slapped him was “Somebody ought to slice your face up” or words to that effect. Now that’s just way beyond acceptable. It’s an escalation, not a deescalation, and the next step is bound to be physical and she took it. (uppity bytch, how dare she!) It really wasn’t a good move on her part, especially considering that he was much bigger than she. But there is absolutely no reason for him to get out of his seat and hit her with his fist.
So, BOTH were at fault for engaging in the first place with greater fault on his part b/c, as the person in charge of the bus, he had a responsibility to maintain the peace and he fully participated in the situation and actively participated in the escalation that got out of control.
Gender is involved b/c she’s a woman. There is also a misogynist flavor to some of the comments here. Would any of this have happened if it were a man? I think it depends on the age and size I really don’t see the bus driver saying what he did to a man his own size, but he might say it to a kid.
Hey, since when does a single naughty word (and not even one of the four letter ones) send your comment to purgatory?
“still have no idea how or why this is apparently about gender.”
Maybe it’s because everyone seems so hell bent on ignoring that the bus driver and the woman were BOTH acting badly, to the same degree, yet somehow, for some reason… it’s her fault.
There’s a clear double standard here, the woman is horrible for yelling at the bus driver, yet he is being “patient” because he didn’t hit her first. Now combine that with the fact that historically, and currently women in this society have been subject to violence for daring to contradict a man, or have strong opinions, or wanting to vote, or hell just being a woman. Combine it with the fact that women are subject to all sorts of double standards about how they can and can’t behave and it sure starts to look like that double standard has to do with gender.
Maybe it in this case it doesn’t, maybe the bus-driver is just an overly aggressive trash talker with no desire to avoid conflict who would’ve helped escalate a fight with a male passenger or a female passenger. Maybe the people defending him would defend him if he decked a guy. I guess its possible that they all are longing for the good old days where men were REAL men (you know violent), without any of the cultural baggage about how women were treated back when men were men. Maybe everybody involved has lived in a social vacuum regarding gender norms.
I sort of doubt it.
“still have no idea how or why this is apparently about gender.”
Maybe it’s because everyone seems so hell bent on ignoring that the bus driver and the woman were BOTH acting badly, to the same degree, yet somehow, for some reason… it’s her fault.
There’s a clear double standard here, the woman is horrible for yelling at the bus driver, yet he is being “patient” because he didn’t hit her first. Now combine that with the fact that historically, and currently women in this society have been subject to violence for daring to contradict a man, or have strong opinions, or wanting to vote, or hell just being a woman. Combine it with the fact that women are subject to all sorts of double standards about how they can and can’t behave and it sure starts to look like that double standard has to do with gender.
Maybe it in this case it doesn’t, maybe the bus-driver is just an asshole who would’ve helped escalate a fight with a male passenger or a female passenger. Maybe the people defending him would defend him if he decked a guy. I guess its possible that they all are longing for the good old days where men were REAL men (you know violent), without any of the cultural baggage about how women were treated back when men were men. Maybe everybody involved has lived in a social vacuum regarding gender norms.
I sort of doubt it.
Oh, and if you are foot shorter than me and 80lbs lighter than me, don’t put a hand on me, Bettykath. When you do that, you risk me hitting back. That would be your choice or someone else’s choice to make, just as it were her choice to make, and she chose poorly.
“And we wonder why so many women are physically abused. He’s much bigger than she is and his mouth was just as bad. But it’s all her fault.
When women do get equal pay and equal this and equal that, let’s talk. In the meantime, if you’re a foot taller and 80 lbs heavier, don’t lay a hand on me for any reason.
Right you are. I’ve been fighting the double standard for years, as have many on this blog. Every once in awhile someone comes in who wants to put one or another of us in our place.”
Bettykath, you seem to keep missing the point. Her place was in a seat, not arguing with a bus driver. She CAN argue with the bus driver if she wants. It’s not a big deal. But she should be in her seat (by the law). But she crosses a line when she strikes him. At that point, she is an aggressor and needs to be prevented from doing anything again. It’s all her fault because she ASSAULTED SOMEONE.
I’m not sure why this is hard to understand.
It’s rare in our city for somebody to do “the backdown.” Maybe he felt he’d done it enough times. He’s between a rock and you know what. He’s supposed to collect the fares. She wouldn’t pay or leave, then assaulted him verbally and physically. That’s a pretty untenable position. I don’t envy him.
still have no idea how or why this is apparently about gender.
Eddie has not met my youngest daughter. 5’3″, curvy, beautiful—and heavily armed. And if she were to be putting her hands on him, it would probably be to slap handcuffs on him and she would not care if was enjoying the mouthful of dirt he was eating or not.
It is never a good idea to mess with women of Scottish descent. They will cut out your liver and make haggis with it.
” Your place is wherever you want it to be.” Thank you, Gene. I was going to say something along this line but thought it might be considered a bit too uppity by some. : ) You’re right, good advice and sound thought are not dependent on gender.
bettykath,
“Every once in awhile someone comes in who wants to put one or another of us in our place.”
With the bevy of strong minded outspoken women who frequent this blog? Let’s just say that their retrograde exercises in futility in seeking to put you in your place provides some great entertainment. You and Elaine and Blouise and Smom and W=^..^ and Lottakatz (and any others I might be omitting by accident) are part of what makes this blog a great place to be. Your place is wherever you want it to be. I’m just glad ya’ll choose here. The world would be a much better place if we as a species listened and learned from women, treating them like partners instead of chattel. Good advice and sound thought are not dependent upon gender.
I cant believe some people are trying to make this about gender. All i see is two people, men women or inbetween, one who is being a total jackhole causing a scene in public, and then started a physical fight with the other, and promptly got decked.
The driver was wrong in exchanging insults with her. But the simple fact is that if she had taken her seat and rode the bus like a normal person there would have been no fight.
As I said in an earlier comment maybe this was the incident in which he hit his limit of how much abuse he could take–maybee she was the fourth person that day to abuse him. He didn’t go to work that day planning to punch someone. And he didn’t go to work planning on being assaulted. He screwed up in punching her. It was impulsive and he will lose his job, likely be charged with assault, and what’s he going to do in this job market?
I would guess conservatively that with 22 years driving a bus he’s experienced verbal abuse like this (and worse) hundreds of times. This was just one time too many.
She’ll get some money out of this. The transit agency has deep pockets. It was a cowardly act on her part to abuse him as she was doing. She expected him to just sit there and take it as she has seen many bus drivers do before–this time she was wrong.
I’ll add this to a comment above about parents not teaching their kids how to act. A lot of these young passengers don’t know the basics of how to act with other people out in the world. They don’t even know how to say please and thank you. They know they’re ignorant and it makes them fearful. They mask their fear with a hardass attitude. They take offense at the drop of a hat. Unfortunately being a hardass gets one’s ass kicked eventually.
OK I saw it on YouTube. She was abusive and the driver should have immediately stopped the bus, called 911 and had her arrested. What he did, however, was so completely unacceptable and so far out of line as to be shocking and criminal. We are really becoming a violent society.
Why is the video “removed by the user”? I can’t tell what happened because it won’t play.
Gyges, Right you are. I’ve been fighting the double standard for years, as have many on this blog. Every once in awhile someone comes in who wants to put one or another of us in our place.
“That tactic might not end well for you, Betty. You touch me first — you’re getting dropped. Simple enough for y’all? 911 won’t be there to save you, either.”
Well, I know I’m impressed by the shear badassness it takes to make threats of violence over the internet.
Betty,
How dare you stand up and suggest that if violence and insults are wrong for one party to engage in, its wrong for both parties. Its almost like there’s some sort of double standard going on.
Next thing you know someone will mention putting you in your place…
Bettykath,
Obviously you’ve had issues in your life. Fine. But that woman deserved what she got. She didn’t slap him, she choked him and spit in his face. I personally would hire that driver in a heartbeat for protecting the rest of the passengers from that foul beast of a woman. She’s a disgrace to her gender and should be put in a doghouse until she learns how to behave in society. It doesn’t matter if it was a man hitting a woman, or a woman hitting a man; if you out your hands on someone without permission, you deserved to get a beating. Period. Do I agree with a abusers or bully’s? Absolutely not. But again, she started it, he finished it. End of story.
That tactic might not end well for you, Betty. You touch me first — you’re getting dropped. Simple enough for y’all? 911 won’t be there to save you, either.