There is an interesting case out of Olympia, Washington where a transgender person is alleging discrimination after being asked to leave the women’s locker room due to his exposing himself to young girls. In a case that is likely to become more common with the expanded rights for transgender individuals, the question is whether schools should bar such exposure in areas with young children or teens.
The incident occurred at Evergreen State College where a 45-year-old male student, who dresses as a woman and goes by the name Colleen Francis, was naked in the women’s locker room. Young girls use the facility from the nearby Olympia High School and a local swimming club. The mother of a 17-year-old girl complained about Francis walking around naked with his genitals exposed and a female swim coach confronted him as he lay sprawled out and exposed in a sauna used by the girls. She asked him to leave and called police. However, she later apologized when she discovered that he was a transgender person. The local district attorney also declined criminal charges because he felt the “criminal law is very vague in this area.”
Francis is alleging discrimination and complained that “[t]his is not 1959 Alabama . . We don’t call police for drinking from the wrong water fountain.”
I am not convinced by the analogy, however. While I agree with the prosecutor’s view of the murky legal standard, it seems that the college and city would have a legitimate interest in barring such exposure to young girls in such shared areas. Obviously the best solution is a separate locker room but that might impose high financial and logistical challenges. If someone is still anatomically male, it presents a legitimate concern for parents. While this is a college, it is common for such facilities to be shared with local schools.
What do you think?
Source: KIROTV
Mike A.,
I think you’re spot on….
Kraaken,
This is not a Gay/Lesbian issue because they do not have to “pass.” Transgender people have a much more complex set of problems. I do agree with those who object to the exhibitionist element of the specific case at hand. That should never have happened. That kind of thing adds to problems trannies already have, as if they need more problems. I have a gay grandson and he uses the men’s room. No problem there. The lesbian women I know use the ladies room with no problem. What about sexual ambiguity people? Are we telling them to just hold it until they get home?
Guess I was kinda enlightened when in ’63 picked up a charismatic redhead who turned out to be a complete transexual. Have told the tale here before.
Compassion however was no replacement for passion, and the couple could not couple due to my lack of enthusiasm. We slept well the night out.
One does not throw a lady out on the streets of LA at one AM.
As for this person who is halfway, I would suggest abstaining until the trick is complete. As I said earlier, coming into the mens’ sauna with a fine pair of boobs and the nether half of a man might cause problems for all, except the enlightened.
As the open member of the LGTB community here, I have to agree with Gene, Bob, and Mike. Until the re-assignment surgery has been successfully completed, the set of genitalia one posses should be the guideline. The fact that we are having to have this discussion is proof that, in the final analisys, we remain the puritans that the more enlightened societies claim we are.
Colleen Francis really has nothing to complain about in my opinion. Nobody who asked her to leave or who called the police realized she was a woman; it was quite natural for them to presume she was not, given the evidence, which she seemed to want to display. Women and particularly young women and girls expect to be able to relax in a women’s locker room; they may NOT feel particularly relaxed with a person in there — regardless of that person’s individual medical or psychiatric background or history — displaying any penis, whether it is “his penis” or “her penis.” It’s common sense.
I think Francis was looking for something to complain of. I know someone who went to Evergreen; sorry it had to have happened there, of course. I must say that if I was 17 it would have shocked me to see a 45-year-old penis-bearing person relaxing nude in my school’s locker room.
bettykath 1, November 2, 2012 at 5:04 pm
Gene, Dredd, “… use the facility appropriate to your hardware …
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That outta be a sign on every public bathroom. 😉
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I disagree. She should be able to use the women’s bathroom and he should be able to use the men’s bathroom, regardless of “hardware”.
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For you bettykath, Ode To Thuh Hardware and Software:
I see a lot of opinions, but know some transgender folks, and this is not a joking matter. Some have been beaten and several killed, and not just over bathroom usage. Rather than “hardware” as Gene put it, I think it is a matter of identity. Imagine a beautiful full busted person transgender woman wearing makeup and a dress going into a men’s room. This picture is of the transgender woman who entered the Miss Universe-Canada beauty contest.
http://www.theblaze.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/miss-universe-canada.png
Or someone who looks like Buck Angel in motorcycle leathers entering the ladies room. Somebody is going to get hurt or killed.
http://images.tribe.net/tribe/upload/photo/919/2f5/9192f5f8-a6ed-47db-a065-5bea62bcffd8
A bathroom is not a locker room. There are major differences, and I am not sure of the solution. I am old fashioned, I suppose, but as far as I am concerned, modesty should prevail. No one needs to “advertise.”
First of all, I kinda doubt Buck Angel would hang out naked and splayed in a public sauna.. except maybe on a porn set. Second of all, I would be fine with Buck being in the women’s change room.
Confused, tumescent or otherwise, exposed male genitalia have no place in a women’s locker room. I can’t believe that people think the only problem here is the presence of little girls, nor the coach who actually apologized to this exhibitionist idiot.
There are a lot of reasonable observations on this thread. My view is that the penis/vagina distinction is probably the most sensible, and sensitive, solution.
Gene, Dredd, “… use the facility appropriate to your hardware …
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That outta be a sign on every public bathroom. 😉
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I disagree. She should be able to use the women’s bathroom and he should be able to use the men’s bathroom, regardless of “hardware”. All women’s bathrooms have stalls, so do the men’s bathrooms that I have seen.
The women’s locker rooms I have been in provide meaningful privacy for those who prefer it. Men seem to have a need to show it all, so I’m not sure how it should be handled there but use of a towel might help.
Bron 1, November 2, 2012 at 10:38 am
Dredd:
you are one crazy dude [in a good way].
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I be woikin’ on it bro.
Gene H. 1, November 2, 2012 at 10:16 am
… use the facility appropriate to your hardware …
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That outta be a sign on every public bathroom. 😉
bettykath,
I caught that “he” in the headline as well, but did not comment on it. My bad. Sins of omission are just as bad as sins of commission in many cases. I agree with you. A person should be referred to by the gender they prefer. I think to fail to do so is as disrespectful as if I called you “Ralph,” which is not your chosen username. It is all a matter of respect.
Having made your committment, going into the men’s sauna with a pair of big breasts would be quite a challenge. But discreet use of a towel would solve both problems: wrong genitals and right gender. He/she must learn to be modest, as women always are.
Cough!
Once the realignment is complete then no problem…..
Prudes are as prudes do.
We, on this blog, have a way to go in understanding transgender. The headline identifies her as “he”, as have most of the posters. Imo, I agree with MikeS, she was trying to make a point. A towel while in the sauna would have been prudent. She used bad judgement. I don’t think separate facilities are necessary, but common sense and a bit of modesty in such situations are.
“Your confusion regarding your gender identity is not the State’s emergency.
An inability to reconcile your body with your mind is an illness by definition; thus the reason you put your sex change procedures on your medical insurance. Learn how to cope until your sex change is complete.”
I must agree with Bob and Gene on this issue. Also:
“a female swim coach confronted him as he lay sprawled out and exposed in a sauna used by the girls”
I can’t tell how many times I’ve used a locker room in my life but is must be in the thousands. Generally, while of course guys are seen naked all the time, especially remembering the boys shower in high school, very rarely does one expose their genitalia more than necessary. Even in saunas people generally use a towel. That this trans-gender was exposing themself, implies if the story was accurate, that this was flaunting. I would think that most trans-gender people who haven’t been fully transformed would be more reticent. Knowing the wide range of sexuality that exists in humans this could also be a perfect excuse for an exhibitionist. My guess is that there was something in this person’s activity that had an agenda beyond their gender dimorphism.
I’ve been a supporter of LBGT causes since before Stonewall. Also as a younger, single man I used to frequent nude beaches and I don’t believe that being naked is in any way shameful. However, I’ve always felt that we should respect others sexual reticence, providing they don’t try to impose their puritanism in return. I this instance I suspect that this person had decided to make a point of their condition and so I think it was an act of bad faith.