By Mark Esposito, Guest Blogger
No word yet if the Moon is in the seventh house or if Jupiter has aligned with Mars but something curious is happening among the monied gentry that form the Republican base. Seems Presidential candidate Mitt Romney is being called out and dissed by the “family.” First, NJ governor Chris Christie, once thought of as a possible Romney running mate for VP, praises Obama for his FEMA support after Hurricane Sandy (and juxtaposed with Romney’s call to end FEMA), and now Chrysler exec. Ralph Gilles calls Romney a liar and full of something rhyming with Mitt.
What prompted Giles’ ire was a tweeted claim by the candidate that, “Obama is a terrible negotiator. He bails out Chrysler and now Chrysler wants to send all Jeep manufacturing to China–and will!” The responding electronic salvo from Gilles was blunt and scatological, “”You are full of sh*t!” Gilles later apologized for his language, but his sentiment was backed up by Chrysler Group LLC Chief Executive Sergio Marchionne who emailed employees that, “I feel obliged to unambiguously restate our position: Jeep production will not be moved from the United States to China.”
Romney had claimed at a speech in swing state Ohio that he read a news article flatly stating that all Jeep production was moving. Jeep has a huge assembly facility in Toledo, so the claim hit like an Arctic blast to a state with 7% unemployment (down from 10.5 % in 2010). Marchionne, who heads both Chrysler and Fiat, seemed to blame Romney’s possible dyslexia saying Jeep production in China would be for the Chinese market, and that the company would not take any production away from Chrysler’s U.S. plants. Rather, he said, Chrysler is adding jobs and investment at its Ohio plant.
No word yet on what Romney read. Maybe the polls in Ohio showing him trailing by 3-4 percentage points.
What makes the two circumstances interesting is the public nature of the family dispute. It’s rare that any Republican strays from Ronald Reagan’s cult like (and faintly un-American) “11th Commandment’ that, “Thou shalt not speak ill of any fellow Republican.”
Even more rare is upsetting the guy you think might be the next President — unless, that is, you don’t ….
Source: Huffington Post
~Mark Esposito, Guest Blogger
Elaine,
You are wasting your time trying to use logic and reason. As Eric Hoffer wrote, “An empty head is not really empty; it is stuffed with rubbish. Hence the difficulty of forcing anything into an empty head.”
Mike
I guess we are playing golf. Person with the lowest score wins.
Me,
I wrote: “I’m glad that the government bailout saved the jobs of many thousands of American auto workers. Would you have preferred that the government hadn’t bailed the companies out…and that those Americans would now be out of jobs?”
Did I write that the bailout saved the car industry? Do you disagree that the bailout saved jobs? Do you think that many auto workers would not have lost their jobs if the government hadn’t bailed out the companies? Do you think it’s good for our economy if more Americans lose their jobs?
Elaine
I would have preferred that the auto industry get no special treatment. They made bad decisions. When you make bad decisions you should pay the consequences. In this case, they should have had to go through the normal bankruptcy process. That does not mean the end of the US auto industry. To hint that it was saved is being disingenuous. It would have reemerged. Now we are on hte hook for any future poor decisions. There are over 50 car companies in China. Who is to say this move by Chrysler to build in China is a wise move. Maybe they are late to the game? Maybe this will blow up in their faces. If this happens, then who gets to pick up the bill? You and me! I find that reprehensible. I want no part of it.
But we both know how this will play out. We have seen this movie before haven’t we?
Mike
Destroyed? Not only have you done no such thing, I’m still waiting for you to defend your “The Chinese will only allow cars to be built in China, to be sold in China,”. OS has already admitted that this is not the case.
I see the Conrade statement hit a nerve. I apologize for that. It was uncalled for.
We can debate these things like adults.
“We can debate these things like adults”
Me,
In our disagreement you are The Black Knight:
Me,
Yes, they COULD make cars there–cars that would probably be too expensive for people in China to buy because of the high tariffs imposed on the car imports. Let’s call a spade a spade, shall we?
I’m not swinging away for anyone.
I’m glad that the government bailout saved the jobs of many thousands of American auto workers. Would you have preferred that the government hadn’t bailed the companies out…and that those Americans would now be out of jobs?
Me:
If they built them in the US, the Chinese would impose a tariff upwards of 21% of the price. Not to mention the cost of shipping from the upper Midwest USA to China. That would effectively take them out of the market of all but the independently wealthy Chinese. They want to sell Jeeps on a worldwide market. It makes sense to build them where the market is. Mercedes builds cars in Alabama. Nissan builds in Tennessee and Mississippi, among other places. Want to know where cars come from? Here is a chart.
http://www.howtobuyamerican.com/content/db/b-db-autos.shtml
Elaine
You are making my point.
“They plan to build cars in China that will be sold there”. They COULD make the cars here, could they not? They could, but it would be not in their best interests. I get it…but it is still offshoring. The work COULD be done here…but it wont be. Let’s call a spade a spade.
“That’s different from sending American jobs overseas and having people in other countries manufacture cars and other goods that will then be shipped here and sold in the US.”…This is your argument? It’s hard to believe that YOU, Elaine are going to go down swinging for a large multi-national corporation that required a huge bailout to remain in business. Did someone hack your account?
You have to be pretty naive to think that cars made by a manufacturer wont “find” their way over here. Pretty naive.
You and other liberals will not criticize this one instance of offshoring because it is not politically advantageous to do so.
Chrysler is not “offshoring” jobs that are currently held by American workers. They plan to build cars in China that will be sold there. That’s different from sending American jobs overseas and having people in other countries manufacture cars and other goods that will then be shipped here and sold in the US.
OS
Then it is offshoring, no?
Thus Chrysler is offshoring, yes?
I have no problem with this. But it is what it is.
Romney should have shut the hell up about this. But liberals calling him Mr. Offshoring etc should shut the hell up too. They can’t have it both ways.
Me,
They control auto imports via prohibitively high import taxes. For all practical purposes, this is a tax that forces the automakers to build there. Technically, foreign automakers are not “prohibited,” but the tax has that effect. The tariff has been challenged, but is still on the books and enforced by the Chinese government. The Chinese usually ignore international rules when they do not feel it is in their own best interest.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2011/dec/15/china-taxes-us-car-imports
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-18723175
Please defend your “you can only sell cars in China in you build them in China” claim.
I have already said Romney was wrong. I was pointing out hte obvious hypocrisy of the bright people on this blog who pointed out Romney was wrong AND THEN proceeded to provide support for the Chrysler move. The same people who call Romney Mr. Outsourcing or Mr. Offshoring when clearly, this is an offshoring move. They cant have it both ways.
The link I want you to provide is evidence that you can only sell cars in China if you make them there. Otherwise I will be lead to believe that you made up that statement entirely.
Want a link? Paul Waldman of The American Prospect explains how the Romney campaign screwed up by pushing the “building Jeeps in China” meme. This is a blog of rather bright people who should know how to use “The Google” to do fact checking. I am only providing the one link. There are only a few thousand more out there.
http://prospect.org/article/why-romney-campaign-screwed
bettykath
I agree with you. He is not being truthful.
I find it humorous though how forceful and to what depths the posters on this blog will go to DEFEND the Chrysler move. This is where they lose all credibility. The same folks calling him President Outsourcing are also vehemently defending Chrysler.
It is hypocritical.
Me, My problem with Romney’s attack is the lack of veracity. He suggests that Jeep production is moving from Ohio to China. This is an untrue scare tactic.
And here I thought I was being censored (links removed):
“The Chinese government requires that vehicles sold in China must be built in China.” …Please provide a link for evidence because if this was the case why would Chrysler and the Obama administration file a WTO grievance against China for auto tariffs? Why would China apply tariffs to cars that can only be built there??
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/15c3b666-c6a1-11e1-963a-00144feabdc0.html#axzz2BMH33Jeu
“The profit comes back to the USA” …how do you know this? Why would they do that? If the market is so rich there, wouldn’t the profit stay there to be reinvested?
“I doubt seriously any Chinese built Chrysler products will make their way to US shores.” …really? So there are no US branded cars made in China and sold in the US? Next thing you will tell me is that there are no US branded cars made in Mexico and sold in the US either right?
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/12/21/business/in-a-first-chinese-built-cars-arrive-in-north-america.html
Comrade Mike – good morning. I do understand why a company would want to build factories in China. Makes a lot of sense. Cheaper labor, resources and a huge market hungry for goods and services. Makes sense.
But neither you nor OS have defended my accusation of the folks on this blog. You are all being hypocritical for blasting MItt on this Chrysler thing and giving Obama a pass. Because that’s what you guys do best. I for one agree that Chrysler should make this move.
MItt was wrong for condemning it. You guys are still wrong for blasting him on offshoring yet blasting him when he is critical of this one offshoring instance. I feel like a proud dad when I read your blog posts about what a good move this one instance of offshoring really is.
“You are all being hypocritical for blasting MItt on this Chrysler thing and giving Obama a pass.”
Me,
Comrade Mike? Seriously? Having destroyed your lying arguments you resort to calling names. Is that the best you’ve got? I assume it probably is because you only present lies rather than facts, which is the tactics of a NAZI, like most of you Tea Baggers. You’re the person who supports treason and why don’t you leave this country to us patriots who are the Real Americans.
Me,
There are four naughty words that get caught in the filter. If you used one of them, you can substitute a symbol ($, #, @, etc.) for one of the letters and re-post. WordPress will only allow two links per comment. If you had three or more links in your comment, break the comment into two or more parts.
“The Chinese government requires that vehicles sold in China must be built in China.” …Please provide a link for evidence because if this was the case why would Chrysler and the Obama administration file a WTO grievance against China for auto tariffs? Why would China apply tariffs to cars that can only be built there??
http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2012-07-05/obama-to-china-dump-the-car-tariffs
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/07/05/most-american-cars-index_n_1652219.html
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/15c3b666-c6a1-11e1-963a-00144feabdc0.html#axzz2BMH33Jeu
“The profit comes back to the USA” …how do you know this? Why would they do that? If the market is so rich there, wouldn’t the profit stay there to be reinvested?
“I doubt seriously any Chinese built Chrysler products will make their way to US shores.” …really? So there are no US branded cars made in China and sold in the US? Next thing you will tell me is that there are no US branded cars made in Mexico and sold in the US either right?
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/12/21/business/in-a-first-chinese-built-cars-arrive-in-north-america.html
Comrade Mike – good morning. I do understand why a company would want to build factories in China. Makes a lot of sense. Cheaper labor, resources and a huge market hungry for goods and services. Makes sense.
But neither you nor OS have defended my accusation of the folks on this blog. You are all being hypocritical for blasting MItt on this Chrysler thing and giving Obama a pass. Because that’s what you guys do best. I for one agree that Chrysler should make this move.
MItt was wrong for condemning it. You guys are still wrong for blasting him on offshoring yet blasting him when he is critical of this one offshoring instance. I feel like a proud dad when I read your blog posts about what a good move this one instance of offshoring really is.
Why are my “comments awaiting moderation”??
Lies, Damned Lies and Paul Ryan Lies
John Nichols
November 4, 2012
http://www.thenation.com/blog/171016/lies-damned-lies-and-paul-ryan-lies
Excerpt:
Toledo—Paul Ryan is really upset with Barack Obama about that auto bailout.
Which means that Ryan is upset with himself.
In a campaign where the standard for what constitutes the “big lie” keeps getting adjusted upward, Ryan is trumping even Mitt Romney by attacking President Obama and Vice President Biden for backing policies that Ryan backed.
Picking up on the Romney campaign’s closing claim that the moves taken to rescue General Motors and Chrysler somehow damaged the auto industry—despite the fact that GM and Chrysler say different—Ryan has been banging away on the bailout.
“The facts, they speak for themselves. President Obama took GM and Chrysler into bankruptcy, taxpayers still stand to lose $25 billion dollars in the president’s politically managed bankruptcy,” the Republican nominee for vice president claimed at a rally in Racine, Wisconsin. “These companies, Chrysler in particular we know this story, are now choosing to expand manufacturing overseas.”
In the final days of a campaign that has taken the shine off his “golden boy” status, Ryan was going all-in on the Republican ticket’s biggest lie: a claim that Obama’s policies had somehow endangered the sprawling Jeep plant in Toledo, a critical battleground in the critical battleground state of Ohio.
That’s not true.
Yes, Ryan says, “These are the facts. These facts are inconvenient for the president but no one disputes them. The President and the Vice President, the problem is they simply can’t defend their record.”
That’s remarkably tough talk about the auto bailout that polling suggests is very popular, especially with voters in battleground states such as Ohio, Michigan, Pennsylvania and Wisconsin. It is, as well, remarkably dishonest talk, which tries to obscure the facts that—in addition to saving an industry with 1 million jobs—the bailout is credited with spurring an auto manufacturing resurgence that has seen the creation of almost a quarter=million jobs and a pattern of profitable quarters for the Big Three.
That may be why GM officials, frustrated by the Republican campaign’s attempts to create a false impression among voters, took the rare step of issuing a statement that said Romney and Ryan appear to be getting their information from a “parallel universe.”
Even as he was fact-checked into a corner, Ryan kept up the (in the words of the Cleveland Plain Dealer) “flailing”—seemingly convinced that constant repetition can spin fantasy into reality.