Russian Orthodox Christians Offended By Apple Logo

-Submitted by David Drumm (Nal), Guest Blogger

While the Duma, the Russian Parliament, is considering laws to “to defend citizens’ religious feelings and national and spiritual values from blasphemy and insult,” Russian Orthodox Christians claim that the Apple logo is anti-Christian and insults their beliefs.

The bitten apple is symbolic of the story of Adam and Eve eating the forbidden fruit from the tree of knowledge, appropriate for a company dealing with the dissemination of information. To Christians, the bitten apple symbolizes original sin and temptation by Satan.

This could be problematic for sales of Apple products in Russia.

The first Apple logo showed Issac Newton sitting under an apple tree with the words “a mind forever voyaging through strange seas of thought — alone,” from English poet William Wordsworth. The rainbow themed apple was selected and used from 1976-1998. The Glass-themed version has been used since 2003.

Apple also had trademark issues with The Beatles and their Apple Corps. Those issues were finally settled in 2007.

Crazy beliefs are not exclusive to religion and are of little consequence until they have the authority of the state behind them. Vladimir Putin seems hell-bent on helping Russian Orthodox Christians turn Russia into a Christian version of Saudi Arabia.

H/T: Austin Cline, Ophelia Benson, Forbes, Xbit Labs, Christian Post, The Register.

86 thoughts on “Russian Orthodox Christians Offended By Apple Logo

  1. Ascension

    @idealist707 – As the NSA Echelon System Tech would say: “Now you have caught my attention.” (LOL)

    1) Dr Harris, PhD back-story… (please elucidate)

    2) Your English is better than mine. Never noticed any Swedish or European indicators…

    3) I am not familiar with TA; is that Transcendental Ascension? (not familiar with that either)

    4) “OK, let’s test and see. BTW, I thought that my analysis of your put-down and big dog tactics should have waked more interest. No ad hominems, just pegging your tiresome tactics of dominating the scene.” –

    (Answer) OK I don’t agree that I was in “put-down” mode as I am trying to control my cyber-angst as it was never a nice feature of my personality. I think you must have assumed that it was directed at you rather than just a somewhat generalized perception of mine of others with only a small component aimed at you (if any). I don’t see myself as a “big dog” and I don’t intend to dominate a discussion forum (but I know I do inadvertently). I think the denizens here allow me to rant as most of them are psychotherapists and other professional healthcare types. My particular problem is that the “physical” peers I have chosen to associate with over the last 40 years have proven to not be a challenging group, and as your own personal problem has shown, tends to be received negatively as they are “low-thinkers” and basically dullards. The Internet has turned into a “therapy” for me allowing myself a venue to share my self-perceived acumen. (And here I go again guys!…) If I had the courage to met Christopher Langan* in Long Island NY I would go to his bar. But I know we would probably not hit it off so well. (*arguably an autodidact smarter than Stephen Hawkin and Marilyn Vos Savant combined? Even if that is possible.)

    5) You have no DSM description as you are NOT mentally ill in my opinion. Your disruptive behavior in school could stem from your environment at home with your care-givers (parents) and siblings (if any). Dysfunctional family life is usually the causality for such negative behavior IMO that is.

    6) Yes physical LETHARGY is present in me at times. But that’s due to a un-diagnosed underlying medical condition I think. I may have inherited it from my parental units (LOL).

    7) “What assumptions? Can you exemplify with several.”

    (Answer) – I already answered that. The fact that you thought I was putting you down. Shows that there is a low-self esteem component to your personality I think. Developing a “thick skin” seems in order but judging from your encounters with bullies in earlier years I’m sure you’re getting more advanced in that area – correct?

    8) HUMINT – Human intelligence gathering methods (spies?); EIT – Extreme Interrogation Techniques (water boarding?)

    9) Never heard of Ownz0red, but I think I would not be interested as I am not into video games and such. I have them but they are just sitting in the den gathering dust.

    10) I tried to start a science fiction novel until someone (at work) started reading over my shoulder. I promptly lost interest and abandoned it. Maybe I’ll start again if the feeling moves me. ADD is a real kick in the arse you know. Can’t focus on anything for long.

    11) “Not correcting your spelling just assuring that I read right. It could in fact stand conscious and make good sense also.” _ I never could spell that word right. I use spell checker a lot… I was referring to people who have done “questionable” things in life and feel bad about it but can’t tell anybody for obvious reasons. So somehow they find me! I listen only out of mild curiosity until I get bored in about 8 seconds (LOL).

    12) “Or you are perhaps the effervescent type who is impervious or even unaware to putdowns.” – No sir I am a Type B personality who has to be a “pretender*” in most walks of life to survive ridicule for being deemed “different”. I am 57 years old and going through a mid-life crisis (surprise surprise). I have several issues mentally that I’m sure some of my friends here already detected. None of which are schizophrenic or otherwise serious. I’m not saying this was your contention. I’m just being needlessly verbose again and volunteering (TMI) too much information. (*that was an excellent American TV show The Pretender (1996–2000) with Michael T. Weiss – you can watch it here http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002HXIF1E/ref=atv_feed_catalog?tag=imdb-amazonvideo-20)

    13) “And those mentioned were tactics often employed repeatedly by the same persons here.” – BTDT I have been initiated too here. I suggest you just take things in stride and roll with the punches. Those are American euphemisms to live by I think.

    14) I too like Daniel Ellsburg but I think he screwed up by using his Xerox machine with his kids to get on THEIR radar. I work for a similar corporation as a independent contractor. That way they don’t have to pay for benefits and such. I don’t wish to get into MY conspiracy theories as I tend to get into TMI and get into trouble with my personal psychopath-esque fellow employees and management. But if you want some “connect the dots” time with me ask away (that applies to others too).

    15) “And who are you disappointed in and which Congressman?” – Vladimir Putin and Larry McDonald (he’s probably still in a Russian prison mental hospital outside Vladivostok – that’s not certain now. He may have died in KAL007 just as the arguably sanitized story goes) TMI I know!!!

  2. SoTB,

    You just won my heart, and that is only the second time here. You also got me booked for at least an hour to comment your comments—–briefly.

    TMI….. story of my life….they did not ask for this….shut up.

    Being different: meet the original martian, was sure of it until a year ago.

    ETC ETC, but let’e take it by the numbers.

    First time I have returned to a thread and seen my “opponents” sig and felt glad in anticipation.
    Says somthing—it will reveal itself with time.

    TBC below.

  3. SoTB,

    Preface. All I write is according to me, my perception, opinion. I am not a source, can sometimes give one, but will not be bothered unless asked.

    1) Dr Harris, PhD. Rarely visiting autistic savant, high testing. Writes in the style difficult to penetrate but on last visit, was writing down so as to convey his own story and help others understand it. He described his journey to becoming a “flat bagged half trans” which was important on that thread.

    I latched onto his other points, asked some questions and got him interested to providing an answer on such matters as his alternative to Descartes dualism, faults are never faults, and the universe vs singularity as the beginning and end.__________________________________

    61 J. Brian Harris, Ph.D., P.E. 1, November 3, 2012 at 4:26 pm

    I decided to wait and see what got posted for a day or so before starting to write my own reply.

    In addition to being, per my primary care physician’s medical records, “high functioning autistic,” and “hyperverbal” I happen to be a post-op member of the LGBTTTQQ, or, as some of us may prefer, “genderqueer” community.”…………..

    https://jonathanturley.org/2012/11/02/transgender-person-alleges-discrimination-after-being-asked-to-leave-womens-locker-room-where-he-exposed-himself-to-young-girls/#comment-442982

    ————
    I think you will find him interesting as you are a high performer too, and his perceptions are understandably not like me and us handicapped “normals”
    But the point is he can lay it all out, organized in the fashion prescribed by academia and PE organizations. The type who “needs” for emotional(?) reasons a four-sided fold-out business card to list all his meritous achievements and associations.
    I worked with a couple in my second career job.
    You maybe meet them daily.

  4. SoTB,

    “2) Your English is better than mine. Never noticed any Swedish or European indicators…”

    Guess my mistakes appear to be ignorance. With reference to American norms, I routinely use the wrong

    prepositions, use faulty adverbial forms and placement, and compulsively injected phrases, which split simple declarative sentences.

    Having been berated here initially many times for my tendency to run off on tangents, inability to construct sentences which they could understand, I have tried to improve. And have had to fight my way back to the joy of writing.

    Lately, as serendipity would have it, I discovered someone similar in Hunter S Thompson in his book covering the 1972 election. He speaks of writing with pleasure one hundred page long tangents, and his use of odd analogies likens my own.

    So much for that little comment. TMI????

  5. “Being different: meet the original martian, was sure of it until a year ago.”

    IMO this also COULD be a reaction to a dysfunctional family life in formative years. This sometimes can be misinterpreted as borderline-schizophrenic especially if there is a component of audible and visual hallucinations present (however ‘duality’ can be confusing for many – hard to differentiate). Somehow people seem to think if visiting aliens are actually real they MUST be intelligent. Therefore some children with low-self-esteem may identify with the Hollywood version of what they think a biological ET would look and act like.

    Beldar is simply having fun with us (duh!) as he/she thinks it is cute to play but no one except you and I responded. I notice he/she has not responded. I wonder why? I sure hope they weren’t a real mental patient boarding a commercial airliner (LOL).

    I saw a BBC sci-fi production of a scenario of UK MoD (Ministry of Defense) people interviewing some captured humanoid aliens only to discover that the aliens were dumb as rocks! (LOL) Then there was Pen & Teller’s Invisible Thread. (1987) You have to watch this at the scene where the US Pentagon asks them to dialog with some captured aliens seeking reasons for not destroying Earth. Equally hilarious. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yD2B_5ayeeM Four Parts in all. Worth watching.)

    I personally have trouble in believing in visiting biological ETs and UFOs as I kinda’ have historical data which pretty much identify the real culprits as “humans” with hidden agendas. I also think Jonathan Hughes (above) is correct about a certain meta-physical entity who likes to masquerade as many things he is not (see Apostle Paul’s outing of him at 2 Corinthians 11:14). I mean he spent millenniums “proving” to atheists he doesn’t actually exist (LOL). I hope you see the irony of that last statement.

    BTW – Jonathan please read John 8:44 and 1 John 3:8 – “That one was a manslayer when he began, and he did not stand fast in the truth, because truth is not in him.” Jesus here shows that Satan was once in the truth or good, but forsook it starting at the Garden of Eden. God is the only Creator (you agree?), and ‘his activity is perfect,’ with no injustice or unrighteousness. (Deuteronomy 32:4) Therefore, the one becoming Satan was, when created, a perfect, righteous creature of God. He is a spirit person, for he appeared in heaven in the presence of God. (Job chapters 1, 2; Revelation 12:9). You get no argument that he is evil but he wasn’t created that way. He drove himself and some other brother angels toward it sealing their fate with God.

    Atheists… please bear with us religious-esy people. Allow us our arguably ‘accurate knowledge’ rantings you confuse with blind faith or mental illness due to your early negative experiences with Fundamentalists which have arguably poisoned your point-of-view on such things..

  6. SoTB,

    “3) I am not familiar with TA; is that Transcendental Ascension? (not familiar with that either)”

    ————–

    Transactional Analysis Common in the pop psy books of the 80’s. Not sure of any acceptance, etc. Was congenial, non-threatening, but did not understand my placement on the simple hiearchy of Child, Adult, and Parent in rising order.

    It was mainly an explanation of how you communicate from one level, in my case unconciously being a child talking to a parent. Now if the person you are talking to is instead an adult who is responding to you as an adult, then formally that is OK as the lines of communication do NOT cross.
    However, in my recent case of personal re-discovery of TA, when one is in the child state and does not really know what an adult state IS!, then the information intende for an adult will NOT be understood. And the adult will not understand you either, since he will see an adult standing in front of him and be receiving childish information instead.

    Will save crossed transactions for another time.
    The above describes me, that is enough for the moment.

    This realization, together with others, has resulted in other realizations which required correction or acquiring new behaviour or thinking patterns.

    For example, impulse control. Routinely contemplation probable results of impulsive actions. Regarding others as centers of their solar system and not a planets revolving around me. Etc.

    Now if I go further than you find comfortable, then we can stop if you like. Or if interest wanes, etc.

    Having stood under a microscope all of my life, then this is routine for me.

    So will stop here until you give the green light.

    BTW I tried to raise a stink through contacting the largest paper,and the responsible editor, but got only an embarrassed response on the question of Swedish cooperation on Echelon. This was just after the news that Australia had gone in the system.

  7. “In addition to being, per my primary care physician’s medical records, “high functioning autistic,” and “hyperverbal” I happen to be a post-op member of the LGBTTTQQ, or, as some of us may prefer, “genderqueer” community.””

    I truly don’t know what to do with this new information. Any suggestions? Who is the subject of this statement? You? If so please explain what you perceive is the causality for some of it.

    Re: Hunter… you do realize he had a LOT of chemical assistance? Not unlike L. Ron Hubbard. Funny his new religion is so anti-drugs today…

  8. So TA was from Canadian Eric Bernstein (aka Berne)? He was a neo-Freudian therefore I’m surprised he was not marginalized by this fact. I think my friends Otteray Scribe and Mike Spindell are better versed on this than I am.

    Your comment about NSA’s Echelon program may not be global enough in scope. Since the NSA can not do domestic intelligence (unlike the CIA who got special dispensation from LBJ and Reagan). So I guess they did an end-run around the ruling and made deals with foreign nations to look back at USA. No need for a FISA warrant too.

    The one in Australia is a Pine Gap (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pF5mrwS1Nz0).

    Certain CIA officers (Robert David Steele*) feel that Echelon doesn’t work. I mean what terrorist in Pakistan etc. is actually using a Internet connection to do planning? Someone inside thinks they use cell phones too. WTF would they use anything that the Western news media says is being monitored 7*24? \\The raid on Abbotabad Pakistan recently by US Navy Seals PROVES that they were using LOW-TECH. UBL was using 3.5″ diskettes to send text messages via his runners who went to Internet Cafe’s to upload data or just hand it off to a rendezvous. Echelon can not catch that – so who is it really aimed at?

    *Robert David Steele – http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=robert+steele&oq=robert+steele

  9. SoTB,
    Being autistic, albeit high functioning, Brian does not have any filters. Not at all unusual with that diagnosis. Most of the regulars here have learned to just roll with his OCD, hypergraphia and flights of ideas. He provides way more information than anyone needs, but that is just Brian.

  10. @Idealist707 – Please don’t be offended if I go MIA from time to time. I tend to flicker in and out as my ADD kicks in and out. If you want to communicate with Malisha (another great mind here) and I when I appear to be MIA please feel free to drop me a line at sonofthunder@hushmail.com I would give you hers but I need her permission first. If you get a free Hushmail account our communications will be totally encrypted inside a Canadian corporate mailserver and no IP addresses are displayed or shared.

    MIA = Missing In Action

  11. @Otteray Scribe – I could just “feel” your presence – Like a disturbance in the force . Just needed to invoke your name huh? (LOL)

    So his name is BRIAN? You knew this how? So he was talking about himself in that “transgender” stuff too? I must admit I found out serendipitously that high functioning autistics can type like crazy and actually have something to say. Case in point: my great-nephew when he was 9 back in the 1980’s has it. I put a TRS-80 tablet-looking device model 100 in his hands and he started typing everyone’s names, ideas, etc. With NO training on how to use it. Now I can’t get away from his Facebook postings (LOL). He is so smart and could be the next world-renown cartographer or ship’s navigator (if it weren’t for his OCD and Autism that is). He is also a avid reader of everything.

    So you and Brian have a history? Maybe I know him but just don’t remember him from other threads. He and I share the TMI gene don’t we?

  12. SoTB,

    Otteray Scribe is always near me. He was one who had the unprofessional behaviour as to diagnose me via what I say here.

    He even declared me the object of an ostracism decision by the “regulars” (hia word). Just ignore him was his words to a new arrival who got irritated when I challenged their competence to speak for the women of Afghanistan. Think what riding in a burka in a Afghan government Jeep for a few years can give one in terms of self-esteem.

    So thought that you should know that OS won’t speak to me any longer. Last time he accused me of lacking social etiquette. Ha. lol.

    By the same token, OS admitted excellence as a pilot and a denizen of a county occupied by so many of his and his wife’s relatives, that by his own declaration, that all bridges and crossings bear either his wife’s or his family names. So we all have our self-images which we defend agáinst all threats. So I kid him about in-breeding which he does not like.

    I have trouble tolerating pretentious people.

    His use of the term hypergraphia with regard to Brian, ie Dr Harris, a man to respect, is typical for Otteray.

    He has used it as a pejorative about me as well.

    Dr Harris is far deeper and wider than most here can ever dream to be. I don’t agree that he has no filters. That is crap. If so, it does not overwhelm his capability to select the useful nor distract from the internal parallel working on several levels in his mind. Those are my amateur judgements.

    You appear, from your comment, too quickly have lost interest in him, and did not roll down to see his musings (can I call them that?) on philosophy, physics, cosmology, infant–child transitions, etc many more than I have ready labels for.

    CONTACT ADDRESS NOTED. YOU CAN FIND ME AT:
    fallingpetals@hushmail.com

    Can I say that Malisha and I are well acquainted.
    She has my full support and admiration here. She has a unique eye for reality, among other good qualities
    I have loudly, as is my custom, promoted her writings in early days, and now she is widely admired here and elsewhere. Deep run still waters, while shallow rapids babble, but rapids are loved by the salmon in Spring.

    CUL…. Radio telegraphy talk for See you later.

    I’ll send the rest of my reply to your comment 1-14 via the hushmail address.

  13. SoTB,

    Re NSA

    Is there not a move now to allow them to view the USA directly. It is said that they have been doing it, albeit was not said that Echelon mirrors was the
    way that they did it. The big facilty ín UTAH is talked of as well. But all this is public info and your channels are special, shall we say.

    UTAH!!! Can that be a first payoff to Romney from HW Bush. LOL. Maybe. Hope it is the last.

    Bush tried many times to advance upwards. He even tried to assassinate Reagan when Bush was Veep in another town, but the Manchurian candidate was a lousy shot and the exploding bullet which lodged in Reagan did not explode.

    Typical CIA blunder. Pick one but don’t give him adequate training and equipment.

    TMI

  14. Godnight all,it is 4 AM here.

    It is election day in one hour and a quart on ET there.
    Sleep well, no Romney nightmares.

    I am not even sure that Romney is as smart as Dubja Bush was. And Cheney’s merits were much heavier than Ryan’s are. Amateur crooks the both of them.

  15. @idealist707 – Re: Otteray Scribe – OK I’m confused now (easy to do [LOL])… so you are quite “normal” and OS was talking about the good Dr. and not you? So you are not a transgender? Are you male or female? I am male. OS has gained my deep respect as he is a very “special” person in his peer group. The in-breeding crack was unfortunate as I think that is a reality in his part of southern USA and considered a pejorative term.

    OS is a professional and is highly qualified in making DSM-style diagnosis as that is his occupation. If he said those things about family names on “bridges” “roads” etc. I would believe him. He hasn’t led me astray yet. I think you may have got under his skin a bit and I swore that hypergraphia comment was aimed at you. So you are NOT Brian?

    Any way give OS a bit more respect even though you feel he doesn’t deserve it. I think you will be pleasantly surprised about a friendly OS versus the converse. There are others here an order of magnitude worse which I’m afraid you haven’t encountered yet. They too are professionals but they can be merciless to people they don’t like. “Here There Be Dragons” (LOL)

    Also OS has experienced a lot of personal tragedy in his life through the loss of several people in his family and friends. So try and consider his feelings when you type things about him. He’s really not a bad guy at all.

    Now what is this about riding in a Afghan jeep in a burka? Explain please. So you are female? How did you get into Taliban-run country without the support of US Forces or some other agency? Confusing me again!
    =========================================
    Re: NSA
    Yeah I think the Bluffdale Data Center is just sort of move you are talking about. Well that’s according to Bill Binney ex-NSA. Read about it:
    http://www.democracynow.org/2012/4/20/exclusive_national_security_agency_whistleblower_william
    =========================================
    Re: Bush
    – Yes Romney is related to the Bushes.
    – No Romney will NOT win the Electoral College.
    – Obama may loose the popular vote to tricky Diebold machines in FLA that randomly change Obama votes to Romney (true story as of today). And I’m hearing all kinds of voter fraud stories nationwide. You’d think the CIA was doing it’s Philippine Election tricks all over again. But fortunately Obama is a CIA man per Wayne Madsen (unlike break ’em into pieces JFK).

    – The IDES OF MARCH operation*, as I like to call it, allegedly had more than one shooter. Judy Woodruff of PBS was there and when Hinckley was shooting she saw what she thought was a well dressed USSS team member standing on the balcony above Hinckley aiming his service pistol toward the POTUS limo. Why the limo and not Hinckley below him? It appears that she has gone mute about it now. And the story has since been sanitized.

    *Reagan attempted assassination that would give VPOTUS-43 a 8 year head start on POTUS-41

    – Latest update on a presidential would-be assassin Hinckley? He may be set free from St Elizabeth’s Hospital very soon (talk about family favors!):
    http://www.cnn.com/2011/11/30/justice/hinckley-hearing/index.html?hpt=hp_c1

  16. SoTB,

    Let’s see if I can set it straight.

    But first let me say that I feel like Brian, ie OS name for Dr Harris as he relates that when he as a young child heard of Christine Jorgenson, then he cried because he knew that he was not alone in the world.

    Now I say like, ie similar, I did not say “same”. And that is because since you came here then I have had it confirmed that there are others (ie you) somewhat similar to me—although much more talented. Brians problem is his and not mine.
    My name is not Brian and I do not have any of his problems that I know of.

    Fortunately, your existence makes me feel both more mellow and less sensitive to cranking (english?) by others. That bodes well for the future for me here.
    I can look at him now almost with warm amusement.
    Poor suckers, I don’t want his problems, just as I don’t want those of a millionaire. I have lost my wife four years ago and am still in sorrow, although it has eased at times.

    Let me set you straight. I am male, have the male equipment that I was born with, and other than a mistaken identity encounter at age 25 (ca) have never associated with trans. Purely hetero. It became a chaste encounter, as I did not contradict her story of being a ballet dancer who got dropped, damaged and operated. But my lust disappeared immediately.

    So my interest, I emphasize for the third time in Brian is not his gender changes, not in the least.

    It was and still is his ideas he drew at the end of his gender rant, and which at my request, that he then further expanded in a later comment. I think, as I said before that you would be interested in them as ideas related to concrete reality and not personal changes, although they do have effect there too in how one views the world on a philosophic level.

    ================

    Re Otteray Scribe.

    I realize that he is a talented man, but like all such men (there are exceptions) they tend to put themselves at the top of the heap, and tolerate impertinence or challenges very poorly.

    I started off as an scared rabbit which attacks even wolves if necessary, and other rabbits too. I mentioned that before. So having done that for a while I had most folks against me, and deservedly so.
    Folks can’t understand how I am or how I can be as I am. And OS just comes with unasked for diagnoses as putmedowns. My list of combatants included regular fights with GeneH, and many others including you name’em: MikeS, TonyC, ARE, Woosty (over eating horse meat), ElaineM, Messpo7272, etc. I have lots of unattractive characteristics due to not developing further than a 3 year old at best.
    I have come to that realization here and have openly thanked folks for saying what they think. That is known.
    Some have on the other hand seen my essential character, behind the childishness, and have learned to aid me and approach me with softness. Not as enablers to stand still, some actually see progress. I do see progress, but it is a daily battle A walk of 40 minutes today included at least 8 challenges to impulse control and outcome prediction so as to decide on reasoned grounds what I SHOULD do.

    I have so to say offered neutral comments to OS, but he ignores them, and that is his privilege. I have no hope of anything until he shows some other signal than silence.
    =================

    No, I am not Brian, If the dig about hyper-bla bla was at me, I could imagine that you are right. But I chose to ignore it this time…..he has used it to abuse me before. And if I am, what the skit. I don’t and can’t force anyone to read what I read.
    Just scroll by it. Simple.

    Just because he is a consult where he MUST diagnose on the basis of evidence not fetched first hand and in confidence, is NO excuse to do so here among peers. If I admire someone, then my expectations rise, they do not diminish. Admirers first, confidence gainers and friends last.

    I believed him when he remarked about his relatives in his home county. He used it as a way of rebutting that I knew anything about the NC appalachian villages.
    And relatively speaking he is right. But my challenge was not on that, but his deriding them for living off of producing crack and alcohol (?). The attitude of disdain angered me. Of course it was a sensitive subject. All us rednecks from Carolina/Tennessee (and I am both by blood) have heard that slur many times. The only real inbred ones that I have ever seen was in the neighborhood of the Moulin Rouge in Paris.

    Yes, he is like you in that he is very talented.
    And as you say, we were apprised by him after prompting from a regular here to tell the story of his loss. That of course flies out of the window when I am kicked on the shins and degraded publicly to a zero. So, his attitude to me will have to change.
    I tried kissing up to him, but got no rise. And I don’t usually ever do that, not for such reasons anyway.

    Maybe there are points that I missed. I DO appreciate your asking and not just listening to their accounts.

    And to all I say, my perceptions of passing the line are not devoped yet. If I piss on your head or anger you by ridicule, nitpicking or whatever, then tell me. I realize that you don’t expect to have to do so for an sdult. but I ain’t there yet. And although I try to do better, my impulse control still slips out of gear. It is embarassing to write this request, but that is how it is. No tears needed or asked for. I have a shrink, just protest and I will listen.
    ============
    I don’t know how much stuff that Hunter used but according to him it was superhuman quantities.
    But although it may have aided his writing/associative capability, I think that he like myself had learned to let his mind run free.
    Let a thousannd marijuana plants bloom!, as Mao did not say.

  17. The burka lady was a newcomer here and sprang to the defense of the Afghan women based on her experience there. She came out strong, and after my challenge she was met by MikeS and others rather restrained as to the merits of her opinions, which she made clear werr facts in her mind.

    I jsut said that as you have told us that you apparently don’t speak Afghani, travel only to meetings of what consequence with officials. then how can you say you know firsthand what you claim you know.

    She tried to reply with info but lost control at my impertinence and went to open attack re she had heard of me, etc etc.

    And then was when OS came with his consoling words to her, don’t pay any attention to him, we regulars have agreed to ignore him. Of course meant for my ears too. Great bullies here. They seldom attack the argument or ideas I advance, but use debate techniques of feints, challengs on their specialty grounds, and alway ignoring the points that I score.

    BTW, OS made an official half-disclaimer on the principled grounds of never doing that.

    He said: “You know that I would never dare to speak in your name.” Whereupon, all unanimously said in response; “Of course you would not” Consensus reached in the name of buddy-hood.

    The lady in the burka who it was addressed to and who could witness to the truth kept her silence.
    But the record in the archives still are hopefully unaltered as I pointed out.

    Old fights make for nssty vendettas and posses too. KKK lives in some minds and in reality.

    =====================================================

    I’ll get back on the Reagan thing, Glad you recognize Bushes attempt gain the Pres chair. He was RNC chairman appointed by Nixon and who Baker believes is the one behind the whole intentionally botched break-in and the manipulation of Nixon by way of his paranoia.

  18. CREW ís claiming a flash on Romney
    ==================================

    http://act.watchdog.net/petitions/1818?n=2800618.SaPj89

    They claim in a newletter that UAW and CREW are preparing a suit (?) on federal ethics law basis that Rpomney concealed between 10 and 110 million in auto

    industry recovery moneys, and hid them in his wife Ann’s account to escape a proper tax on them.

    My obvious question is why come with it now. And how serious, other than a “trust” (no pun intended) question, how important is a violation of a federal ethics law amount to.

    The link is to their petition site. Ca 98,000 registered now. Have your facebook account ready.

    Thunder’s news of Diebold vote switching in Florida is disturbing. TonyC is right, it is premature with vote registering machines.
    Woosty and MikeS will be disturbed. Didn’t the other measures suffice, I ask.

    Who needs a Scct decision when you have fraud to work with.

  19. @idealist707 – Lots of information to digest… I will try and reply but if I missed something I apologize in advance.

    1) You and OS share a common tragedy which should bond yo two rather than separate you. I’ll let you figure out what that is.

    2) Judging from OS’s occupation I think he is “monitoring” or “observing” which is an occupational habit in his line of work. He would not engage you until he was sure of your true mindset and had more data to dialog better. Also the “dragons” you mentioned are his cyber-peers. They are very strong dragons and their peer-pressure is overwhelming at times. I understand that and adjust accordingly. Peers are really important. Some are helpful some are debilitating. Either way it’s a learning experience…

    3) I did not know you have American roots. However, I too am familiar with the European-American (aka White) Appalachian tribalism. You must understand the LONG history with illegal controlled substances these people have had. Back “in the day” they where regulated by what they called “revenuers”. Now their federal enemies are ATF and DEA. OS deals with these people routinely in his occupation as they are “locals” to him I think. I do not think that is North Carolina. I will except further south and west in neighboring states. This illegal activity also impacts Native Americans (and some African-Americans aka Blacks) of the area but that is a bit more politically touchy subject I will not address here.

    4) Marijuana (Cannabis sativa, Cannabis indica, and Cannabis ruderalis) is not the real PROBLEM here in America. It’s the THC (delta-9-tetrahydrocannabinol) which is the trouble maker which does NOT enhance anything mentally and according to UK scientists may be a causality for schizophrenia in some people who use MJ. In our ancient history here in USA it was a great commodity for rope making and such. Now it’s a cash crop and being legalized nationwide… the latest Connecticut USA. GW Bush legalized the Federal Govt to cultivate “ditch weed” (marijuana) for bio-diesel conversion for the Federal Motor Pool. The DEA was up in arms over that but was told to STFU and they kinda’ did but post-Obama I do not know where that stands today.

    5) Election – as of today Florida refuses to stop counting! Romney has given his unscripted concession speech and they are still counting. Why can’t Florida do ANYTHING right? I love Florida as it’s a great vacation state. However, I would not want to be a Black man there (if you know what I mean).

    Give OS some more time and stop trying to bait him. He can see right through you and is a waste of your time. If he want’s to engage you he will. But if you keep harping about it he probably will just continue to ignore you. If so I’ll talk to you.

  20. “I’ll get back on the Reagan thing, Glad you recognize Bushes attempt gain the Pres chair. He was RNC chairman appointed by Nixon and who Baker believes is the one behind the whole intentionally botched break-in and the manipulation of Nixon by way of his paranoia.”

    George H.W. Bush’s TRUE past will simply blow you away… There is much to this man most do not know and don’t want to know. If you have ever watched the movie The Good Shepard by Robert DeNiro… notice the man pissing on the mud-wrestling James Jesus Angleton character at the Tomb at Skull & Bombs in New Haven CT. Guess who that was supposed to be? Guess who recently had an USN aircraft carrier named after him, a STILL LIVING President of USA? There’s more such as his undocumented “work” in the 1950’s… but I will save that for a private conversation.

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