Israeli officials are being quoted today of accusing the United States of fostering protests against the decision of Benjamin Netanyahu’s government to build 3,000 settlers’ homes and develop an area of the West Bank. The renewed settlement plans are widely viewed as destabilizing the area and attempting to undermine a viable Palestinian state.
What is most striking is the suggestion that the Obama Administration does not have the guts to confront Israel directly and must politically use surrogates. Five European countries, Australia and Brazil joined other countries in denouncing the move. Netanyahu has responded in his signature way by refusing to yield and going on the attack. His aides have said that the real country opposing the move is the United States. The obvious suggestion is that the Administration does not want to trigger a backlash in Congress by opposing Israel directly so it is using allies to push the issue.
The plans to build 1,700 homes in Ramot Shlomo in east Jerusalem and another 2,600 in Givat Hamatos are moving forward. The Ramot Shlomo development was shelved in 2010 after it provoked a row with the US.
The result is we can now add Israel to Iran, Syria, and Russia as countries claiming U.S. inspired protests.
Source: Telegraph
No surprise here, the U.S. is guilty of far worse! Oneday, the U.S. will betray Israel out and out! A country of vast hypocrisies, lies and crimes against humanity. It likes to point fingers at others but in reality it is the Great Satan!
I know this from personal experience: A case that clearly high-lights the kind of degenerate whores that make up the government…not all, but a great majority.
I see that a famous Circuit Court official, was eventually demoted for having the audacity to throw the light on the insurmountable corruption that has invaded the Judicial institution.
Look, if a country’s judicial officials have no respect for their very Precedents, their Decisions, their Statues…how can it’s president be morally affirmative and strong? Hence the schizophrenic action of the current leader in relation to Israel.
The entire country is a mess: The masses ought to be leaving in droves anyhow…CIA officials are already leaving…(The Great-litlle secret)! if you believe in the Bible, you know that israel will be victorious in the end. The question is, is “he” the anti-christ or False Prophet?
Think about that one good, before you answer!
BarkinDog —> “But the next thing that is imperative is to make war on Iran before they get their atomic bomb. Like tomorrow.”
Your initial paragraph was tendentious, transparent, contemptuous, condescending, etc., but had a degree of potential sanity. But you reveal yourself in the second.
Check off that box.
There is plenty of room in the so-called West Bank for all of the Palestinians to live and thrive. The West Bank was part of Jordan. Give back about half of this land to Jordan and let them absorb these arabs who used to live under the Jordanian yoke. In Gaza the border with Egypt needs to be taken over by Israel and the tunnels flooded. Then create a mile wide strip and turn it over to the UN to police and keep out the missles which Egypts allows through now. Let the Gazans be Palestinians or arabs or whatever they want to call themselves but deny them missles. The arabs who call themselves (in recent years) Palestinians do not need their own state. The thing they seem to prefer is a state of war. When I was in Israel and Egypt in 1980 I met many arabs in the Sinai, in Gaza and in East Jerusalem and in the West Bank. I never met one who referred to himself as a Palestinian. In Gaza, some claimed to be Egyptian. In the West Bank, most claimed to be Jordanian. A Three State solution is in order. Jordan takes back half of the West Bank. Gazans have a state. Israel is a state. That is three. Easy solution.
But the next thing that is imperative is to make war on Iran before they get their atomic bomb. Like tomorrow.
Yes, Persians are proúd. I meet it often in the educated Persians (and all are educated) here in Sweden.
And perhaps they have more reason than the USA and the Saudis to be proud, if you regard their ancient history, and the ability of those I encounter.
.
The girls in Teheran are wearing today skin-tight tights and short short skirts just covering the necessary. Wonder how that grabs the religious police.
Now we know that the whole of the West Bank (and Gaza?) was not UN granted to Israel. We also know that Jordan got the West Bank by seizing it.
But did not Jordan abandon the West Bank to have a place to expell the troublesome Arab former residents of the West Bank?
´The recognition that comes with statehood was very valuable to the Jewish people, That is clear. Denying their earlier acceptance of a two state solution, which the Arab League refused to accept, does make their refusal now to accept Palestinian official observership at the UN difficult to swallow.
And if we admit personal feelings in the matter I would gladly give the Israelis 10 times the territory in compensation for their contribution to the world. But I do have difficulties watching white phosphorous rain on Gaza.
Fortunately, we don’t get to see the aftermath,
Just as we don’t get to see that of drone strikes.
I wish we could send some who feel that drones are motivated there to see—-but that is a tangent.
Lastly, Sunni and Shia compete for dominance. Since shortly after Mhhmd’s death. We see it today expressed in the ambitions of Iran and SA. Iran and an atom bomb would not bother me at all.
Much less than in the hands of the American President.
Some women here know too much. CIA analyst backgrounds?
Mike,
“Don’t you find it interesting how Iran has become such a bogeyman of late? ”
Yes … but then they are Persian. 😉 “Iran’s attempts to gain supremacy in the region are not triggered by political ambition as much as by a racist drive that pushes Iranians to prove they are superior, the professor (Sadek Zibakalam, the University of Tehran) said.” Interesting article when you have the time: http://www.alarabiya.net/articles/2011/10/09/170927.html
As to Saudi history, I was mainly referring to King Abd-al-Aziz – known as the Lion of Najd – who took over Hijaz from the Hashemite family and united the country under his family’s rule in 1932 … the Al Sauds, if you will. It was that taking of the Hijaz region – the birthplace of the Muslim Prophet Muhammad and the cradle of Islam from the Hashemite family that got the modern ball rolling … that they also sit on more than 25% of the world’s known oil reserves doesn’t hurt but in 1932 that wasn’t known. The oil was found in 1936-38 (accounts differ) by American Geologists who had been commissioned by the King to find water.
When I mention the Brits role in all this, I’m referring to BP v Saudi-Aramco
Uh, Beverelliee dahlin, do you have any idea how many illegal settlements, not to mention houses, Israel has built in the “territories”? Um, I thought not. Well, do the math, and if you come up with anything favorable to the Palestinians within, say, a thousand generations, get back to us.
Personally think that every time a bomb is lobbed by Palestinian’s, Israel should build a new house. Every month that goes by that Palestinian’s have not lobbed a bomb, a home in the disputed lands is demolished.
Mike,
Waldo,
“If you want to talk about the UN, then let us go back to 1947 and to the General Assembly Resolution 181(II) which mandated the boundaries of the area. The West Bank ad Gaza were part of Israel. There was no “Palestinian State” only Jordan and Egypt. That was the original wishes of the UN.”
Resolution 181 most emphatically did not make the West Bank and Gaza part of Israel! Resolution 181 was a plan for the partition of the Palestinian Mandate and the creation of independent Arab and Jewish states. The West Bank and Gaza (and some additional territory in the Palestinian Mandate) were intended to be part of the Arab state. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Partition_Plan_for_Palestine
“My following quote which shows you are wrong about the forces threatening Israel were taken from this Wiki link ,which if you read it, you will find is very fair to both sides in its analysis: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Six-Day_War”
I think we’re going to have to agree to disagree about the relative military strengths of the Israeli and Arab forces in 1967. I’ll simply make the observation that military strength is not determined solely by numbers of troops or tanks. There are innumerable examples of a numerically inferior military force being much superior in military power. A couple of recent examples would be the US wars with Iraq where the US military took minimal casualties and crushed the numerically superior Iraqi forces in weeks (days?). Likewise, the Israelis in fact quickly and easily crushed the Arab forces against them in 1967. I’m confident that the overwhelming number of military historians, Jew, Muslim, etc., would agree that Israel was vastly superior in military force rather than they got lucky. Regardless, this is merely an academic question without bearing on any present day realities.
“There is no historical basis for the statement that the West Bank was never legitimately a part of Jordan. They ran it and they were recognized as having sovereignty there.”
No, they were NOT generally recognized as having sovereignty there. Jordan purported to annex the West Bank. Their annexation was never recognized by the US, the UN, or the overwhelming majority of countries (the UK and Pakistan were the only countries in the world to recognize Jordan’s annexation). Jordan was a separate country that only came to occupy the West Bank during the 1949 war with Israel. It wasn’t their territory before the war. You don’t legitimately acquire territory by conquest. They were not internationally recognized as the legitimate owner of the West Bank.
“As for what the legitimate aspirations of the “Palestinian” people on the West Bank were then, that is a moot point,”
I think we’re going to have to agree to disagree on whether what the people on the ground want should matter or not.
“I don’t expect though that I can use actual history to change your mind and it would be a waste of time to try to. You have your opinion regarding the “evil” Israeli’s and I have mine. However, I would suggest that you do some studying on the real culprit for the angst in the Middle East and that is Saudi Arabia.”
If you’re going to be condescending, it’s best to at least get your facts right. BTW, I don’t consider the Israelis “evil.” I support the existence of Israel. I recognize that there’s a lot of Arabs in that part of the world that want to see Israel disappear and that there’s a lot of historical animosity and grievances on both sides.
“That was the original wishes of the UN.”
Resolution 181 most emphatically did not make the West Bank and Gaza part of Israel! Resolution 181 was a plan for the partition of the Palestinian Mandate and the creation of independent Arab and Jewish states. The West Bank and Gaza (and some additional territory in the Palestinian Mandate) were intended to be part of the Arab state”
Waldo,
I got that wrong on that and I admit it.. However, if you read further in your link:
“The Plan was accepted by the leaders of the Jewish community in Palestine, through the Jewish Agency. The Plan was rejected by leaders of the Arab community, including the Palestinian Arab Higher Committee, who were supported in their rejection by the states of the Arab League. The Arab leadership (in and out of Palestine) opposed partition and claimed all of Palestine”
So in the end the Arabs refused to abide by the UN plan and war ensued where they actually fared much worse. your original point was that Israel was acting against a U mandate, that is shown to be a fault shared by not only Israel, but by their neighbors.
“Jordan was a separate country that only came to occupy the West Bank during the 1949 war with Israel. It wasn’t their territory before the war. You don’t legitimately acquire territory by conquest. They were not internationally recognized as the legitimate owner of the West Bank.”
Their continued occupation of the West Bank was a “fait accompli” and were there no 1967 War they would have remained there. You give far too much credit to UN recognition and far little to political realities.
I appreciate that you support Israel’s existence. I apologize for being condescending. However, we do have much that we disagree on, including the history of the area.
MikeS, A few questions. Where did I engage in a stereotype? How can my calling you on the “if you want to be respected” in anyway constitute me being a victim. That seems to be a boilerplate shoot from the hip accusation from a few here when I call “bullsh!t”. Are only you allowed to “surmise” about this? What makes your “surmise” more credible, the fact that I’m not a member of the tribe? I see your point about Netanyahu, and say it’s a good take. You need to ask yourself if your derision for Bibi clouds your assessment. I still believe the CIA doing this is also credible. Neither of us know, on that we should be able to agree. Which makes your reaction or overreaction curious.
“Are only you allowed to “surmise” about this?”
Nick,
Obviously not, thus your comments.
Malisha and Mikes,
Let mr suggest a title: “What every goy should know”
World War One could be regarded as one starting point whose solutions led to today’s problems through the British Mandate Soon a hundred years have gone since.
Just a few, not central, questions.
How does one expell 600,000 jews and not cause political problems on the world stage?
How can one NOT expell 600,000 arabs from the territories granted by the UN to Israel BECAUSE of expected political problems on the world stage?
I would, in my usual answer, assume that oil and now the need for continuous conflict to maintain the drain of the MIC on our nation, is the deepest and least discussed answer to the problem.
MikeS,
One point in disagreement. The existence of several religious states does not justify adding another one of another faith. Faith based states are kinda bad as the muslims keep reminding us. But that is quibbling. Apologies.
But you got the UN mandate, so be it. It is Israel’s (and the jews) fate to try. Good luck.
“One point in disagreement. The existence of several religious states does not justify adding another one of another faith. Faith based states are kinda bad as the muslims keep reminding us.”
ID707,
It’s not that I’m in love with the idea of a religious state per se, so your point is well taken. I would remind you though that Israel was founded as a secular, socialist state for the Jewish People. The thinking behind it, with some justification, was that without a homeland the Jewish People would spend their existence living off the changing hospitality of host countries.
People forget that anti-Jewish feeling was strong in this country up to and past the end of WWII. Arthur Godfrey, a famous Radio/TV personality owned a hotel in Miami Beach which up until the end of the 1960’s didn’t allow Jews. This was indeed rather common in Miami Beach. Jews were not allowed to live or rent in the best areas until the early 60’s.
As a Jew having Israel is a comforting thought to me because knowing history as I do, I understand that no matter how prosperous the Jewish situation is in a Foreign Land and no matter how tolerant the land may be, things can change at a whim. The Jews were expelled from England by Edward II because he borrowed money from them that he decided not to pay back. Spain expelled its Jews which had lived there for five hundred years in 1492. And so it goes and has gone on and on.
I ask people to imagine being part of a tribal/religious heritage that dates back almost 4,000 years. Whose members have distinguished themselves in all walks of life. Whose religious ideas inspired two of the worlds largest religions. Whose scholarship has help enrich humanity. Finally, whose chief tenet religiously is to help in healing the world. My heritage is one that I am proud of to the fiber of my being. Yet having this heritage can prove to be deadly to myself, my family and my friends who share it. I am an American, born and bred. I love this country with all its faults, yet as a pragmatic person I’m glad that there is one place in this world that if need be me and mine could escape to and thus I support its existence. The history in this link supports my caution: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MS_St._Louis
Why were the Jews expelled or disdained and forbidden to buy lands or other things all around the world?
Does the fault lie in the world or perhaps the Jews are responsible for this?
SwM,
No doubt and both were quite pleased when Bush eliminated Iraq … Saddam Hussein had outlived his usefulness.
Mike,
As to “contemporaneous to our lives”, the first donation I ever made was when, in 1959, at the age of 14, I donated $20 to the Plant a Tree fund through the auspices of my second chair cello buddy’s dad who was a physician traveling to Israel to help staff a new hospital.
Mike S, thanks for the detailed comments and the historical perspective. Most ordinary Americans I have met who (a) are not Jewish and (b) discuss Israel and the troubles in the Middle East assume, because of their cursory reading of current events, that the Jews swept into Israel in 1948 and stole all the land from the Palestinians who had previously owned it. They have no idea that any refugees from Europe who settled there BOUGHT land or that Jewish Agencies BOUGHT any land. They thought there was an Arab state there called “Palestine” run by “Palestinians.” They thought the Jews just took it over and they forgave them for doing so because of the Holocaust, but then they began to unforgive them and to equate their aggressive behavior NOW with Germany’s aggressive behavior in 1940! They have only the thinnest, fact-free understanding of what has gone on in the Middle East in the 20th Century or before — as if Jesus was there in Year One, and then there were some crusades and then there were a bunch of camels and THEN the Jews crowded in and pushed the Palestinians out.
As someone who feels as free to criticize Bibi (whom I consider one of the most dangerous people in the world) as I do to criticize Putin and George W, I still consider it my right and duty to recognize how the Israelis (both Jewish and non-Jewish) have had to deal with history, including but not limited to CURRENT history. So, as I say, I appreciate the great job you have done in your comments on this thread. Any thoughts about collecting them and some other topics and publishing a book? I’ll give you a free edit. (I’m good at correcting the apostrophes.)
“Any thoughts about collecting them and some other topics and publishing a book?”
Malisha,
A book was published years ago called “From time Immemorial” by Peters. It has a good deal of the story, though there have been efforts to question it put forth.
Blouise, The Saudis would not shed any tears if Israel took out Iran.
Mike,
And the only troops who enjoyed success against the Israelis were the British trained Jordanian troops.
However, in your views concerning Saudi Arabia (an up-start kingdom that evolved around the same time as the emergence of Israel, both taking advantage of the vacuum that developed after WW II and Britain’s Empire collapse) … have you considered the common enemy, Iran, that these 2 countries share … have always shared?
I am suggesting that Israel works more closely with Saudi Arabia than either country wants the world to see.
“However, in your views concerning Saudi Arabia (an up-start kingdom that evolved around the same time as the emergence of Israel, both taking advantage of the vacuum that developed after WW II and Britain’s Empire collapse) … have you considered the common enemy, Iran, that these 2 countries share … have always shared?
I am suggesting that Israel works more closely with Saudi Arabia than either country wants the world to see.”
Blouise,
The Saud family history dates much further back than their founding in 1932. The history actually goes back to 1744. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saudi_Arabia This family represents past masters at playing “The Game of Thrones”. The Israeli’s do’t have the resource (oil) the Saudi’s have and they don’t have the long inter-connectedness to the International Corporate Elite. I have no doubt that they are manipulating Israel and that Israel is manipulating them. The problem is that by playing the Saudi’s game, which is to continue the strife with the Palestinians, the Israeli’s are watching the basis of their society fray. How many years can a country exist in what is a virtual state of war. This is why truculent fools like Bibi get elected. now it is true that the number one threat to Saudi hegemony in the ME is Iran. Don’t you find it interesting how Iran has become such a bogeyman of late? Especially, since regimes such as Pakistan and North Korea have atomic weaponry and much crazier environments.
“MikeS, Hopefully this is the last time I need to say this. I like Obama”
Nick,
Hopefully this is the last time I have to write this: When you make categorical statements, with no factual basis, using stereotypes to make your point I will call you out on it. That is what you did above.
“Why are you so sure he wouldn’t engage in this much less draconian measure.”
I’m not sure, I surmise it because it makes little sense for him to do so and much sense given Bibi’s positions that he would spread this to deflect the fact that he did something that has garnered great disapproval and he is coming into an election.
“Finally, is there a star chamber that decides who “is taken seriously”? Or is just you?”
There is no “star chamber” Nick and I don’t remember any censorship of your remarks at any point. However, for someone who has come on with such bombast from your beginning on the blog, you certainly claim victimization when someone disagrees with you. My comments are my own here and always have been. There is no cabal at work of “Ins” and “Outs” and ones respect is gained by the logic of ones argument and the value of ones comments. In many instances your arguments have been illogical and I and others have called you out on that.
Some of your comments such as the one above display a certain type of stereotypical sort of thinking, which I find annoying
“I just can’t be very sympathetic towards a religious state. It doesn’t really matter which religious state.”
Abjectbooks,
I get where you’re coming from. So I take it you think that the Saudi’s, Iranian’s, Iraqi’s, Afghans, Pakistani’s, Indonesians and now Egyptians are illegitimate States also, since they are all under religious laws? That entails about one billion or so people. There are perhaps 12 million Jews worldwide, is a 7 million plus Jewish State such a problem to you.
The truth really is that the largest foreign lobbyist in the U.S. from the ME region is the Saudi’s. The money they spend dwarfs AIPAC and incidentally I’m not a fan of that misguided organization. The Saudi’s are the quintessential religious state. the U.S. role in the ME is as Israel’s keeper, not as its ally. That is only a pretense for the rubes of the world. The Israeli’s understand this, but have little choice but to play along.
“Somewhere in this present day mess one can find the Brits … dig deep.”
Blouise,
Just like you this whole history is almost contemporaneous to our lives. Remember the “Arab Legion” of Jordan, led by a British General? The Brits are part and parcel of it all and oil has always been their game.