Israeli officials are being quoted today of accusing the United States of fostering protests against the decision of Benjamin Netanyahu’s government to build 3,000 settlers’ homes and develop an area of the West Bank. The renewed settlement plans are widely viewed as destabilizing the area and attempting to undermine a viable Palestinian state.
What is most striking is the suggestion that the Obama Administration does not have the guts to confront Israel directly and must politically use surrogates. Five European countries, Australia and Brazil joined other countries in denouncing the move. Netanyahu has responded in his signature way by refusing to yield and going on the attack. His aides have said that the real country opposing the move is the United States. The obvious suggestion is that the Administration does not want to trigger a backlash in Congress by opposing Israel directly so it is using allies to push the issue.
The plans to build 1,700 homes in Ramot Shlomo in east Jerusalem and another 2,600 in Givat Hamatos are moving forward. The Ramot Shlomo development was shelved in 2010 after it provoked a row with the US.
The result is we can now add Israel to Iran, Syria, and Russia as countries claiming U.S. inspired protests.
Source: Telegraph
Yeah, I was deferring to you jews 😉
But agreed instantly, as I was in the same situation wondering about why someone had something against me and not really able to answer the question. Sure, the answer MUST be answered by the one who owns the anger, not the victim. It is again the question of asking the victim, why were your raped, attacked, etc. Silly. Ask the hater instead.
Thanks.
I was just feeling a bit presumptious. and asked for help. So I’ll ask Teji instead. Teji?????? Tell us why, please`?
I dont know what the “Jews here” can tell us but I can tell you that “tent head” notions have been around for a long time and guys like Teji talk about Jews like Southern Rednecks talk about black people. Hitlerian theories on the history of mankind and Jews are welcome on any blog. Keep talking Teji. I know where you are coming from but we need to hear more. I think we heard much of it at the Nuremberg rallies in 1936. Perhaps your life story will help us along. Mein Kamp by Teji.
Idealist, as far as “what more can the Jews here tell us,” if you mean “about the relationships among Jews and non-Jews,” I think that’s for another thread, and I probably wouldn’t comment there anyway. But this question of the relationship between Jews and non-Jews came up here in the context of Jews explaining to a non-Jewish poster why Jews were so often “unliked.” That’s a far better question for a non-Jew to make up answers to. 👿
Let me hasten to add,, that jews enjoy the company of non-jews. No need for exemplifying that.
But there is a problem which exists. And it exists for the han chinese,, the muslims, etc. The counterpart does not understand your history and culture. He does not know that the left hand is used for bodily hygiene and is not used in contact with others. He does not know that the chinese is willing to work 24/7, as the jew will also, to support his family and thrive.
In the case of the chinese they don’t even speak the same language. And sichiuaniese are not the same as Shanghainese, culturewise and morés.
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So here with a cultural history of over 4,000 years accdg to Mike, then the contact area is quite limited. You can discuss classical music, but hardly the development of Klezmer music in the Stetl.
And since the jew you are talking with is anywhare in the range from Hassid untraconservative to atheist, then assumptions are impossible.
Only courtesy can be assumed. Not bad for a start.
This is my view. So what more can the jews here tell us?
Frankly I get pissed with people who don”t know what they are talking about, but I will either ignore them or address them courteously.
Tejii
You haven’t provide an example of peoples who have persecutéd the jews prior to Christians an Muslims. Let us consider the Babylonians. It was a routine conquest, take the leadering class to Babylon–where they kept their own practices and developed one version of the Talmud. Hardly persecuted. The next conquerors had the same motive, ie no persecution, just invade and tax. So where’s the pre-BCE persecution?
———————————–
Jews want to be by themselves. They enjoy each others company, just like fundamentalist Christians, Mormon, Shiites, Persians, Sunnis, etc etc.
And they despise each other (presuming), ie the Hassids against the Reforms, the Orthodox against the whatever…….!
So if one will talk to me in the old town, but won’t shake hands then I should hate him? On the otherhand the jewish shopkeeper selling cigarettes and souveniirs on the same street, who tries to shortchange me when I pay with a hundred dollar bill, he gets me mad. Now goy workers in the entrance to the amusement park cashier will try to do you in for small change. Any difference.
Just a little anecdotal stuff to wonder if there are any reasonalbly drawn conclulsions there.
Will take up the Iran hysteria another time. If their are any terrorists there then they hardly exceed the numbers ór deadlinest of ours.
Thanks Dredd. A balanced counterviewpoint is always welcome.
I was a British citizen who worked in the American Embassy in Tehran in 1979 when the terrorists took it over and put us in prisons. No one spoke up for us, not even Jimmy Carter, because the Iranians claimed the terrorists were “students”. I moved to Ramala in Israel. The terrorists in Gaza have been shooting missles at me but no one speaks up for me because the terrorists claim that they are Hamas not the agents of Iran. Now in July 2013 the terrorists have dropped an atomic bomb on my town and no one has spoken up for me because the Iranian terrorists are “unknown”. When they drop one on the former site of the twin towers there will not be anyone left to speak up for you New Yorkers. I am sending this back to you from the future because now I am dead and have the ability to do so. An Iranian student helped me with the time machine. You should have listened to the guys on Saturday Night Live back in 1979: [music] Bomb, bomb, bomb, ….bomb, bomb, Iran Oh, bomb iraaaan, I’ll take my staaandd, rocking and rollin, rockin and a reeling bomb Iraaan!
I will put it to you in country bumpkin talk. Y’all dont know nuttin bout birthin babies or the terrorists in Iran.
Teji, I am honest enough to respond. So listen up.
Your question to my Landsman Mike Spindell is interesting to me. The reason it is interesting is that I worked for a long time with doctors from the Public Health Service (a branch of the American Military) in the field of domestic violence. Every now and then we would get someone asking the question, “If your statistics are true, then men have been beating their wives for a long time and the police have allowed this to continue. What I want to know is what all these women are doing to provoke such constant violence? Can’t you provide some education for these women to stop the behaviors that are causing the trouble?”
Look at your question: Jews have been thrown out from all over long before Christianity and Islam came into existence. Let’s not blame these 2 religions for the actions of the Jews that have been occurring long before that.
So it says, point blank and without explanation: DO NOT BLAME two groups of people for mistreating Jews when plenty of others mistreated Jews. Blame the Jews for all the mistreatment because it is obviously “the actions of the Jews” that brought about the mistreatment.
So in its purest and simplest form, you ask what the victims have done to deserve the abuse, which you justify because you have assumed the innocence of those dishing it out.
If ANYBODY would like to answer your question about what ANY victims have done to justify the actions of their abusers, I sure hope it isn’t a Jew who does so.
A few months ago I was in a courthouse, in the room where litigants go to get little 15-minute decisions from a sitting judge on small matters having to do with temporary date-changes and apparently temporary restraining orders. A young Hispanic woman was there asking for a restraining order against a man she says shoved her and choked her. The Clerk looked at the woman’s papers, which were not written very well, and suddenly demanded, “I don’t see very much of an explanation here about why he shoved you and choked you.” The young woman was confused and said: “Um…” Then the clerk said to her, in a very intimidating tone: “Why did he do it? A person doesn’t just suddenly choke you and shove you. What happened?” The young woman was unable to provide an answer. The Clerk would not take her petition into the room for the judge to look at. I then wrote to the Chief Judge a few days later, explaining the problem and asking him to retrain the clerks. He wrote back (he and I had been presenters at the same domestic violence workshop years ago in Ocean City) saying that the young woman had been sent to the wrong room, and in the DV (Domestic Violence) room the clerks were properly trained.
Do you see the problem? The clerk asked the woman filing for the protective order to explain the behavior of the abuser, so the whole process stopped. I wonder if that guy came back to that young woman’s house the next day and did more violence? Certainly that’s a possibility.
I ask again, in case you have the honesty to answer: Do you see the problem?
If this post is correct that really takes the cake! The US suffers for supporting Israel through thick and thin and now we get bashed for allegedly starting protests against the very man we have been supporting. Like I always say the US cannot win in the Middle East.
Mike,
Methinks it was a set-up.
Ralph,
Ah, the civility of a true believer.
Gene,
You are right about JC. He was the original liberal.
Ralph,
With friends like you, Israel doen’t need enemies.
Taj,
I’ll give you the short answer to your why. Having created the Torah, the Jews first had it ripped off by the Christians. That the Jews didn’t accept the new Gospels and Paul as a prophet was a perceived as an affront to Christians because how can you have a new testament, when the authors of the “old” one felt it was still in effect.
Then Islam came along and was affronted that their “new” revelation, which copied both Judaism and Christianity, didn’t find those groups accepting of their new faith, so they decided to spread it with the sword. They couldn’t conquer Christianity though they made inroads in Europe. Jews being far fewer than Christians were an easy target.
One of the necessity’s of ALL religious fanatics is a scapegoat. Also the improbable continuous survival of the Jews is discouraging to those who would usurp Jewish traditions in the service of their newer conceptions of God. Or do you think that the Mosque on Temple Mount was really put there because that’s where Mohammed ascended to heaven? Hardly, it was done as religious metaphor.
Mike, Jews have been thrown out from all over long before Christianity and Islam came into existence. Let’s not blame these 2 religions for the actions of the Jews that have been occurring long before that.
Hence, my original question stil stands. And one more thing, why are Jews not liked all around even today? What is in their traits that make them like this? I know they are very good at being victims which has helped them succeed in their lives.
Teji,
Why don’t you elucidate on why you believe Jews are unliked since I already answered your question? What traits exactly are you talking about?
Mike, first I want to thank you for addressing me with my proper name.:-) Secondly, I challenged your justifications because they are historically and factually incorrect. That is the reason I asked you again the same question or to anyone else who is honest enough to respond. I do not know the answer.
Teji Malik,
First of all let me apologize for getting your name wrong the first time, my short term memory at times plays tricks with me and no slight was intended. Secondly,
your question was based on an assumption which could be paraphrased as: “What is wrong with the Jews that makes people want to hurt them?” As Malisha and ID707 pointed out this is a loaded question that in effect implies the victim is more guilty than those who attack them.
“I challenged your justifications because they are historically and factually incorrect.”
You asked me a question and I answered you with factual and correct information, with a modicum of detail, primarily because the historical record is so obvious and complete. To say I’m wrong gives you the onus of providing data that proves me wrong, if indeed you are interested in debating the question. The pre-Christian, pre-Islam contentions in your response were ably answered by ID707. Israel was attacked by outside powers expanding their empires, particularly the Egyptians, Persians, Hellenists and the Romans. This was a matter of territory and not one of specificity towards the Jewish people per se. There was some bad feeling towards Jews among the Romans because of all their conquered territories the Israelites were the least grateful and most contentious towards “Pax Romana”. However, like the killing gangsters “it was nothing personal”.
I know nothing of you and your background so I hesitate to accuse you of any
pre-judgments other than those connoted by your words. I understand that there is also a difference between being anti-Israeli and anti-Jewish. I’ve been hesitant in the various discussions on Israel that have occurred on this blog through the years to label those who oppose Israel’s existence as being anti-Jewish, because of this distinction. However, in the general tone of your questions it seems that you might harbor both sentiments. Let me give you an example:
“And one more thing, why are Jews not liked all around even today? What is in their traits that make them like this? I know they are very good at being victims which has helped them succeed in their lives.”
As to why Jews are “not liked all around” today I think that is a broadly false generalization. Jews are accepted in many country’s around the world, without prejudice, however, there are admittedly some people within most countries who don’t like Jews. Then again there are elements in most countries that don’t like People of Color and or religious difference. Indeed in the USA there are people who despise those of Islamic faith. I would call such people bigots, but perhaps you would ask what the “traits” of those with Islamic faith are that causes people to despise them.
Your use of the word “trait” is also interesting. Trait is primarily a biologic term referring to the characteristics of genetic structure. Your use in this context implies a racial aspect. Genetically the evidence is that almost all Jews, from anywhere in the world (other than Ethiopia) are most closely genetically related to Middle Eastern peoples (Arabs, Iranians, etc.) in origin. This would mean that the eugenicists term “Semitic” would fit. However, those eugenicists used “Semitic” as a slur for people inferior to Northern European Whites, so I reject it as descriptive. Nonetheless, genetic studies show the affinity of Arabs and Jews which would assume similar traits. That being the case if you were really searching for answers might’t you have asked: What is in Mid-Eastern traits that makes those with them not liked around the World? For my part I would reject such a formulation as being over generalized and bordering on bigotry.
Your last sentence is an interesting one: ”
“I know they are very good at being victims which has helped them succeed in their lives.”
Do you really believe that Jewish “success” is because we play being victims well? Hardly so. History shows that it was the ancient Israeli’s that were considered Rome’s fiercest opponents and the hardest province to pacify.
The Israeli state militarily has resisted successfully the massed attacks of its surrounding neighbors, on many occasions. This is despite the fact that at least in 1948, 1954 and 1967 the United States had embargoed arms to Israel,
so the explanation that it was done because of U.S. assistance is specious and factually incorrect. There are documented instances also throughout the last two thousand years of history of Jews fighting back with some success against great odds. See the “Warsaw Ghetto” for instance.
It is clearly not “playing victim” that has allowed Jews to persist through the ages. The greatest reason for Jewish success comes not from some specious genetic traits, it comes from education. In the Jewish religion, unlike others, one cannot fully partake in it as an adult without being literate. One need to master Hebrew to be confirmed as an adult at age 13. This feature of Judaism has been the root for Jewish “success”. Throughout the last two thousand years most peoples in the world were not literate. This gave Jews an edge and made them valuable to the ruling classes of many societies. It also unfortunately in many instances cause Jews to be hated. So while it kept our tribe going through the ages, it had its less fortunate aspects.
Now you will notice that I have answered your questions in a respectful manner. You have not done me the courtesy of answering any of my questions about what is behind your comments and I would request that you do so. I would hate to characterize your comments as being bigoted, because reasonable people at all times may disagree on core issues without resorting to casting aspersions, so I would appreciate your kind attention in providing complete answers.
.
Did I mention Jesus was a leftist?
BTW, Ralphie, it’s a question all of us are asking . . . doesn’t it take a lot of energy to be as full of hate as you are or does it just come naturally?
Ralphie (Not From New Orleans) Adamo,
If you’re so gung ho on fighting for Israel’s expansionist neocons, why don’t you get off your ass, get on over there and volunteer for the IDF? I’m sure they’ll appreciate the help and, hey, you’d get to kill some brown skinned people who don’t worship the same invisible sky daddy you do.
It’s a win-win-win.
You get to do two things you apparently like – killing brown people and heathens – and we’d have you out of the American gene pool.
The anti-American, anti-Israel, anti-Jew Leftists are at it again, as usual. Leftists are slimey, Islamo-pandering, terrorist-loving subcretins that have no intelligence, no talent, no ability to produce anything of value, and are simply spongers on the real producers and the people that really achieve things in life. To the vile, disgusting Leftists, they think that loife is a zero-sum game and that they can only “win” by taking from the successful.
That is why the Leftists love the idea of a Palestinian state so much. They want a great nation like Israel that really produces things, creates things, and advances civilization to give up its security to a bunch of Islamic terrorists who only know how to hate, to kill, and to destroy.
If the Leftists want to see a Palestinian state so much, let them establish it in France, and make Paris the new capital of Palestine. Let’s see how the French really love the Muslim mayhem, madness, and murders. Of course, they will cry out: “Not in My Backyard” (“NIMBY”). But Leftists have always been NIMBIES. Vile, disgusting, ultracretinesque, Islamo-pandering NIMBIES.
OS,
You wanna bet we’re not somehow providing the cigars….. And open torches too…..
Mike Spindell 1, December 5, 2012 at 11:14 am
Now to the issue at hand. Netanyahu is quite frankly a belligerent idiot who is the puppet for the extreme religious right wing in Israel and due to that is a danger to the existence of the country he leads. I write this as a life-long supporter of Israel’s right to exist …
========================================
The recent UN vote for Palestine is the writing on the wall.
The U.S. lets itself be led around by the nose by neoCons here and in Israel.
The overwhelming rejection of the U.S. / Israeli protest against Palestine, shows the world has lost respect.
Fanaticism in the military which is our diplomacy corps now, is at a point of madness says one cadet who quit West Point:
(AP, FayObserver). The bully religion is boiling over.
Who turned off the kook filter?