We previously discussed the suggestion by a member of Congress that the Connecticut massacre could have been avoided if only teachers were carrying M-4 assault rifles. Now the Governor of Michigan is considering bringing that a little closer to reality with a bill that would allow concealed guns in public schools. Referring to the Connecticut massacre, Senator Tom Casperson, the Republican sponsor of the bill, said “to me it gives [teachers] a chance.” [Update: the Michigan Governor Rick Synder has vetoed the legislation]
If signed by the governor, the measure would also permit firearms in hospitals and stadiums for good measure. Ohio, Oklahoma and Alabama are considering their own expansions of gun laws.
Churches and businesses could still post signs prohibiting guns to exempt themselves from the law.
As of Dec. 1, there were 351,599 concealed weapons permits approved in Michigan, according to the State Police website.
Source: Business Week
Sorry. DID NOT realize this is a private party with a “pecking order” lol talk about arrogant.
AP’s comments about the likely uselessness or inadvisability of telling someone to “calm down” is right on target. However, if I understood what Gene said, there is nothing PC about it. It simply is good psychological advice. In attempting to defuse what may be an accelerating negative-emotional situation, you don’t want to make the “angry” person feel defensive or put down. Then everything can explode ito total emotional irrationality and the original point cannot be discussed or addressed.
All I have done is answered other people’s comments. Did realize this was a private party.
@Mike First “ignorant”is not a personal attack. When some one says that a Bushmaster AR type rifle is only good for 40 yards that is ignorant. A base one off the shelf should give you a 12′ grouping at 300 yards. To say that comment was ignorant is fact. I don’t claim to be a Martial Arts expert. I do train with law enforcement people and am trained by law enforcement people. The head instructors at one of two dojo I train at is A detective for the city PD. I am pretty good at keeping my firearm from being taken as well as taking your if you get in arms reach. That is the training I chose to take. You don’t need to be a martial arts expert to be an expert in weapons retention any more than you need to be a expert in the triathlon to be an expert with a bicycle. I contend if you had a sign in front of a school that said “members of our staff are trained in the competent use of firearms and deadly force will be used to defend our children and staff” it will be safer than a school with a sign that says”gun free zone.absolutely NO firearms are allowed on the premises” the comment that most of my remarks are macho stuff is also ignorant. I have given so many comments on constitution. Anyone that knows me knows I am far from a macho person. I’m actually very timid. I just don’t want me or you to be a helpless victim. Of course ALL this being said, RUNNING is the first thing ANYONE expert or not should do if given the opportunity. However if yo are not allowed to run you must fight with purpose and ferocity.
MikeS sucks!
MikeS, When have you had your ego deflated here? This is not a ball bust question, just curious.
I have no opinion on Fabien. But why don’t all you legacy commenters and guest bloggers just cut the bullshit and tell Fabien there’s a seniority pecking order here. It’s quicker and much more forthright.
:MikeS, When have you had your ego deflated here? This is not a ball bust question, just curious.
I have no opinion on Fabien. But why don’t all you legacy commenters and guest bloggers just cut the bullshit and tell Fabien there’s a seniority pecking order here. It’s quicker and much more forthright.”
Nick,
My ego has been deflated many many times and I have apologized for mistakes many, many times. I’ve also lost heated arguments and admitted it. As for seniority pecking order, it exists only in people’s minds. People like OS & Blouise are relative “newbies” compared to Mespo, Rafflaw, Myself, Mike Appleton, Bob esq and AY.. Yet they are at least as respected as we are, perhaps more so. Elaine, Nal and Gene are relatively “newbies” compared to us “oldtimers” and they are guest bloggers. The “pecking” order is determined by the content. You’re now a regular Nick, it really is about the content.
PS: Please forgive me because I’ve left so many esteemed people out, it’s just that any list of respected regulars would be a very long one and even those I have’t mentioned have made great contributions here and are just as Jews say: Mizhpuchah (family).
Blouise:
I hear “W” was and is for gun control, too: (mespo)
sshhh … Fabien is doing more for the cause than I could ever accomplish … not quite as much as ol’ Phil did but still effectively using the split screen to my position’s benefit. I do so looove free speech!
Fabien:
Perhaps it is true that you are competent in weapon use and retention. Most people are not. Certainly most primary school teachers and administrators are not.. “Train them” is much easier said than done. Add the confusion, stress, and unpredictability of a real situation, and consider which has greater probability: that the weapons will achieve their intended purpose, or that the situation will be made worse, rather than better. I’m skeptical.
Thank you AP for those two comments.
I’ll save them for later use..
Malisha,
re.white man control.
Gandhi when asked of what he thought of English civiilization, replied:
“What civilization? I haven’t noticed any.”
FYI, Gandhi was an english dandy educating himself in England in his youth.
That should read “less than ooe-thirtieth of our gun deaths”
Cross posting from an allied country which has less than thirty gun homocides per capita than we do. Original thread: God and guns…….
Walter Zwick1, December 19, 2012 at 12:32 pm
As an American who has lived in Europe for over 40 years, I am continually amazed by my country’s ability to regulate gun ownership and usage. Following the 1996 Dunblane massacre Britain tightened its already strict gun laws. Australia did the same after the Port Arthur incident of the same year. Neither county has had a single mass killing since.
The essence of the UK law is the following
1. No automatic weapons are allowed for any purpose.
2. Every gun owner must be licensed for each gun.
3. Every gun must be kept in a secure safe and only the licensed owner may have a key.
4. Only licensed gun owners may purchase ammunition and only in limited quantities for a gun the are licensed to own.
5. To obtain a license, the owner must how a need for the gun being licensed. Self defense is never an accepted reason.
6. To obtain a license, the prospective gun owner must provide references and be interviewed by the police.
7. No person who has ever received a prison sentence of over 5 years my get a gun license.
8. No person who has received any custodial sentence may even apply for a license.
9. There are strict conditions preventing those who being treated or have been treated for mental illness from receiving a license.
10.Only specially authorized security staff may carry a gun or have a loaded gun in any vehicle. There is no right-to-carry for ordinary citizens.
11. There a stiff prison sentences and draconian fines for any violation of the gun laws.
As a result, The UK with a population of 602 million had only 51 gun homicides in 2011 while the US had over 10,000.
======================
Other than typos on “inability” and “60.2 million” it is fine as a starter.
BettyKath,
You bring up the psychotropic drug problem. Do you suppose (or anyone else here?) that the aggrieved families could bring suit against the FDA and the responsible drug company, and the proscribing doctors?
Nota Bene:
All regulatory bodies are subject to the control of the industries which they regulate, directly via recruitment or via Congress. This is for the benefit of all here.
Or in the alternative, telling someone to calm down is simply good advice to someone acting emotionally rather than rationally. -Gene H.
There’s a saying about “advice” (good or otherwise): Never give “advice.” The wise don’t need it. And fools won’t heed it.
The content is this somebody tried to take your weapon out of your holster you are carrying. They would receive the same response the police officer would give you if you tried to take theirs
You can always tell when your opposition have nothing to say they resort to personal attacks You are ignoring the context of my remark
Or in the alternative, telling someone to calm down is simply good advice to someone acting emotionally rather than rationally.
The PC approach to language once again rears its stupid head.
“Calm down.” -mespo727272
http://peacefulplanetcommunication.com/2010/05/27/calm-down/
In general:
“Why telling someone to “calm down” isn’t such a great idea”
“First, it derails the discussion and changes the focus from the discussion topic to a commentary on one participant’s emotions (or perceived emotions).
Second, it’s an order. One person assumes the upper hand and attempts to control the other by telling him or her what to feel. Nobody likes to take orders, and nobody likes to be told what emotion he or she should feel.
Third, it’s demeaning and invalidating. It tells the other person that it’s not OK to feel whatever he or she is feeling, and that what he or she is saying isn’t important.
Finally, it’s rarely effective, and it usually escalates a discussion or argument or ends it unhappily.
“Stick to facts Focus on your own needs instead of attempting to control someone else. If your need is not respected, end the discussion.”
If someone is acting annoyed or irritated, there’s usually a reason. Telling the person to calm down is only a control tactic and can, in fact, raise the level of annoyance or anger in the other, if there is one. And if the other person isn’t upset in the first place, being told to calm down can easily get him there.”
Fabien:
True enough, but when you invite yourself into someone’s house you usually follow the house rules. That may not be your rule but some civility surely is the rule here and beating your chest about some hypothetical, self-aggrandizing self-defense moves qualifies you for the kiddie table. That’s what Mike S was trying to explain. You can ignore this “non-expert” advice, of course.
Fabien,
Here’s my problem with you. We on this blog have been mostly discussing this issue since Saturday. There are two other articles with over 800 comments so far. All sides of this discussion have been represented from all ends of political spectrum. Many of those comments came from people who are gun owners or who support the 2nd Amendment. Some of these people are experts in firearms.
You arrived in mid discussion making your points and that is fine, this is a free speech/free thought place after all. You delivered the first insult way above calling Leejcarroll ignorant and Lee actually responded to you civilly. I basically attacked you for calling Lee ignorant, when he was just making a point. Beyond that though, continually through all of your initial comments was your professing your expertise re weaponry and self defense. that is annoying to me because throughout this long discussion we have had comments from people who I know at least have your weaponry expertise, but are probably way ahead of you. There is also at least one martial arts expert here as well.
My particular comments were aimed at deflating your pompous authority and frankly to make fun of it. I’ve been here a long time, people know me, but like everyone else when I’ve been pompous and/ or wrong people have deflated my overacting ego. That’s what free discussion is about.
One last thing to clear up many come here thinking this is a “liberal” website, it isn’t. Our host Johnathan Turley is a Law Professor, expert in constitutional law and as a lawyer a defender of Constitutional rights. He is not a doctrinaire liberal, but a believer in following the Constitution.
We have all sorts of people regularly commenting here who don’t fit neatly into political categories including me. Welcome aboard, stay awhile, but if you can’t stand the heat, which in your case is fairly mild then……………………….kitchen.
I am extremely calm. That is known as transference.you must be subset. My “tone” is respectful and calm. I’m not a bit upset because this is a conversation that will have NOTHING to do with legislation because you write a blog doesn’t make you an expert. I don’t claim to be. It just relay history and opinion..